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Thread: Arc Gouging

  1. #1
    Flashaholic* LEDmodMan's Avatar
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    Default Arc Gouging

    This post is a bit of a rant, and a bit of a vent. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rant.gif[/img] I kept my views out of other posts, but I feel the need to express them.

    I understand that Arc is no longer around, and at least now that creates a stronger market for their products. And that to a certain extent governs prices (for now). Fine. But recent events have just had me with my jaw on the floor. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jpshakehead.gif[/img]

    First, I can't believe that a CPF member edition Arc 'aaa' sold on Ebay for $150... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif[/img] I know I'm not the only one who was shocked at that. Someone REALLY must have wanted it!

    But then for some people here start to post various member editions in the B/S/T forums for the same ridiculous amount of $150 that the auctioned Ebull one went for is just plain ludicrous. That's just not in the spirit of CPF, in my very humble opinion; very bad taste. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad71.gif[/img]

    It's one thing to make a few bucks, but charging nearly 4 times what the light originally cost, please! Nice way to stick it to your neighborly CPF friends. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon8.gif[/img]

    I also ask why should one auction set the price that high? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/aaa.gif[/img]

    I know some will say that this is just the market right now. I can understand that, to a point. But I say please keep those nonsensical, absurd , and even possibly comical sales over on there Escam where they belong.

    Finally, I'm glad at least some here have kept their sense about them. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

    Anyway, just the view from here. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif[/img] Thanks for listening. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon6.gif[/img]

    In conclusion, I pose this question:

  2. #2

    Default Re: Arc Gouging

    How is this "gouging"?

    The market is willing to pay big bucks for these lights, because they are now collectors items. The market is determining what the current value is, and right now it's quite high. That is not anybody's fault.

    When somebody holds onto a basball card, and ten years later, sells it for twenty times what they paid for it, is that price "gouging"? When a company goes out of business and their products are no longer available as they used to be, is it not expected that the demand for them will go up? Is there a problem with they system supply and demand?

    What's wrong with a free economy? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]


    I guess you could say our thoughts on this vary....but just slightly. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

  3. #3
    Farewell our Curmudgeon Administrator Roy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Arc Gouging

    The best thing to do is to vote with your pocketbook!

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Arc Gouging

    I dunno, it's just market forces at work. If anyone's buying at those prices, it's just kind of natural for people who have them to want to sell them at those prices.

    We CPF'ers are a good bunch of people, but unless you can ensure that the light you sell below market "in the spirit" will then be sold at a less than market forever thereafter in the same spirit, then you're just handing your windfall to someone else down the line.

    This isn't like something people must have to survive or anything (which is where real gouging occurs), it's only one of life's little options...

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Arc Gouging

    i really don't like seeing ppl taking advantage (yes, taking advantage), of Arc going out of business.

    ppl KNOW the lights are in high demand, and rather than pass a good deed onto a fellow flashaholic everyone's jacking their prices up and getting $40-$150 from a product Arc was selling for like $30.

    if ppl wanna pay that, and they do, then hey, that's great. but i for one am really upset with the fact that it's going to be IMPOSSIBLE for me to replace my Arc AAA, 'cause you can no longer buy them for Arc's price. ppl are making over double what they paid, and off of CPFers. to think that County Comm used to sell them for $15 a piece. and sheesh, i got my Arc AAA for free from TIN. i feel bad knowing that he coulda made $80 off of it.

    but i'm not making any personal attacks on anyone. i'm fine with them going for whatever price on eBay. i just don't like seeing them sold to other flashaholics for over $60.
    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif[/img]

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Arc Gouging

    I don't have a problem with Arcs selling for over the price. If that is the market conditions, so be it.


    Having said that, I would NOT sell any Arc period. Even if someone offered me 10 times the original price. I like Arc flashlights too much to sell them.


    At the same time, I wouldn't pay over the original price to get any more Arcs. If the market price is > than the original price, then I'm not a buyer in the market for Arcs.

    I think with a little patience, there will be substitutes for Arc products within the next three years.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Arc Gouging

    A lot of the prices have been determined on ebay by a free market. Bidding on some has started at way less then they were ever sold for, and ended up being more than one hundred dollars.

    If that is somewhat okay with people, don't you feel bad for the people selling their lights on CPF for what they paid for them, when everybody knows they could be selling them for more and the market is much higher than that?

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Arc Gouging

    The trick is to know the next company which makes good lights and will go out of business soon and get a bunch of their lights before it happens. Then you can trade those for a replacement Arc AAA.

    I mean really, you replace it with something close enough, or wait for some future close enough replacement, or put your Arc aside for posterity, or whatever.

    I wish the the 25 Arc AAA heads which were sold on eBay 4 months ago for $6 each would come around again so I could make more Arc/Peak hybrids, but I wouldn't expect it to happen.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Arc Gouging

    Im with LEDmodMan. CPF is a community, and the BST should reflect this ,and it has done until recently. Things were *always* sold at a fair price.

    If the market conditions says you can charge silly money for a flashlight, then fine. Take it to eBay, and keep the gouging out of our community.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Arc Gouging

    Well, people have paid a lot of different prices for the same Arc product, even here on CPF. I bought my first AAAs for $15. Then, Peter had them for $14. Later, I paid $25, gladly.
    I didn't buy an LS until the blowout 4th of July sale, when they were $60. Wish I'd spent my paycheck on them at that price.
    I got perfectly serviceable seconds for $50, gave some as gifts, gave my original LSH to a friend for what I paid for it.
    Recently, I bought an empty LSH head and clickie tailcap, minus clickie, for $85, trying to make sure I had a body for a mod someday down the line, glad to get it at that price.
    I think it's perfectly fair to sell it for what you can get for it. Not fair to those who don't have the cash, but then if someone's going to sell his cache of LSHs for $50 each, then it's not fair to those who aren't cruising B/S/T 14 hours a day and miss it, because you know it will be gone in minutes.
    No one can please everyone all the time, and I think the bulk of transactions on B/S/T are made for pretty reasonable prices. I think prices may drop, but no one wants to be the one stuck being the last guy to pay top dollar.
    Especially for the collectible Arcs - that's it. There will be no more - if $150 is unreasonable, then what price should they be sold for? Name your price - then what if I think that's unreasonable and it should be $20 cheaper? Who's to set the price?
    The buyer and the seller.
    Sorry, that was my counter-rant rant. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Arc Gouging

    And the community spirit part of CPF is happening. Right now, I see LitFuse is selling an NIP Arc AAA for $50 (I think) including shipping. That is like a $20 dollar discount from some other asking prices, and more than that from eBay prices. Isn't that $20 a contribution to the CPF community?

    I mean, how much of a contribution to CPF are you expecting from those around who happen to own Arc AAAs? $30 discount from a $70 market price (sell them for $40)? $35 below market (sell them for original new Arc AAA prices)? What?

  12. #12
    Flashaholic*
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    Default Re: Arc Gouging

    Jeez, you type fast...

  13. #13
    * The Arctic Moderator * Sigman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Arc Gouging

    Hmmmm...lots of mixed feelings posted here as well as in my own mind.

    I recently had 2 ARC UVs and some various parts to sell. I wasn't "comfortable" setting the price "out of sight". I contemplated putting them on ebay as well as in the B/S/T Forum. However I didn't know what price to put on them if I put them in the B/S/T Forum...

    SOLUTION/COMPROMISE: <font color="blue">"Candle Power Forums Auctions"</font>!!

    I have never submitted an item to an online auction and thought this would be a GREAT chance to check it out! It was pretty "painless"...the software is good and leads one right through the process. If you have a picture of the item on your own computer, the software allows you to upload a pic and hosts it for you.

    If anyone is "struggling" with setting the prices on these items, please give the <font color="blue">"CPF Auctions"</font> a try. Let the buyers set the price, pay what the item's worth to them and the Candle Power Forums benefits as well with 5% of the final sale price going to support the CPF!

    First timers have a $10 credit for listing items (I believe that's 10 auctions listed for FREE!), so it's not costing you a cent to list the items!!

    <font color="blue">"CPF Auctions"</font> is a "HIGHLY RECOMMENDED" option!!

    Another thought/option is to use those "valuable" items as trade material...

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Arc Gouging

    I wouldsn't call it 'gouging' so much as ghoulish, taking quick advantage of Arc's recent demise while simultaneously posting condolences on another thread. Then of course there's jumping over each other just to add yet one more light to the stash, but that's called hoarding and a different story in itself. Unless the motivation behind it is gouging later on, that is...

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Arc Gouging

    I think the prices have gotten a bit crazy, as better products are out or right around the corner. But as they say, a fool and his money are easily parted. If sentimental/collector's value merits a 2x or 3x markup, so be it, it's not the first time it's happened. At the end of the day, the market speaks. Let people vote with their dollars.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Arc Gouging

    I have to agree with the prices being crazy. I'm trying to find an LS for my wife who is frightened at night when she comes home since we had our car stolen. I am unable to find anything for a reasonable price. I guess that all I can do is continue to post and hope that some other flashaholic finds it in them to offer me a light for a reasonable price.

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif[/img]

  17. #17
    *Flashaholic* this_is_nascar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Arc Gouging

    I have mixed feelings on this topic. My initial reaction is the same as LEDModMan's, however I stopped letting it bother me. If the market will bare those prices, so be it. In the last 3-days, I've spent several hundred bucks purchasing some more Arc-AAA lights. Some of the priced OK, and other a bit high. It was my choice, so it was in my total control whether to purchase or not. The current pricing of the Arc line will drop-off, just like everything else does. Look at the price of re-sold VIP's, and FF-II's and ..............

    If you really want an Arc product and don't mind waiting, I'd suggest you do just that........... WAIT for a few months. Prices will come down. In my case, I wanted some for XMAS gifts and some to keep for myself.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Arc Gouging

    "Let people vote with their dollars."

    Trouble is, those without dollars are denied a vote...not to mention others too slow to compete with the frenzied mob. Still, seems that things are slowing down a little. Perhaps those with closets full of Arcs will end up having massive garage sales.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Arc Gouging

    [ QUOTE ]
    kaseri said:
    I have to agree with the prices being crazy. I'm trying to find an LS for my wife who is frightened at night when she comes home since we had our car stolen. I am unable to find anything for a reasonable price. I guess that all I can do is continue to post and hope that some other flashaholic finds it in them to offer me a light for a reasonable price.

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif[/img]

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Just an idea.....but....here is an option if you can't find an Arc LS at a decent price.....


    In the interim, you could get her a Surefire E1E + KL1. (if you like Surefires and it is in your price range).


    While the KL1 LED is not easy to get yet (still backordered I understand), the stock E1E incandescent bulb would be a good temporary solution until the KL1 comes out....

  20. #20
    *Flashaholic* McGizmo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Arc Gouging

    To my knowledge, no one is being forced to buy or sell. It is a free enterprise and if one is willing to accept discounts or expect discounts then one should also be willing to accept the opposite of discounts when supply is scarce. I recently sold an Arc AAA and let the buyer suggest the price. It was over original price but less than "open market" and in fact less than other offer's I received for it. The light belonged to me and I sold it for what was a comfortable price to me to a fellow CPFer who was comfortable with their offer.

    Some CPF members buy lights as collectors. I believe they are entitled to sell the lights for whatever the market will bear. I have been in a position many times to sell something on CPF for more that it would be worth if it were available in ample supply. I have never gouged or taken advantage of this position, IMHO, but that was out of choice, not some community obligation, again IMHO.

    I think that anyone who has never gone for a bargain and has always payed what they thought was a fair price, including offering and insisting that a seller take more than they were asking, when the situation merited it, is justified in complaining about high prices! Everyone else can pound sand! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nana.gif[/img]

    Now where's the duck and cover graemlin?!?! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Arc Gouging

    Agree with 357. There are other close enough choices which - to your wife probably (sorry for any sexist implications - is the case with my wife) - would be about as good. Longbows, QIII's and such lights, $40 to $80...

  22. #22

    Default Re: Arc Gouging

    This place reeks of sour grapes.

    [ QUOTE ]
    Trouble is, those without dollars are denied a vote...not to mention others too slow to compete with the frenzied mob

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Oh, the humanity of it all. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mecry.gif[/img]

  23. #23

    Default Re: Arc Gouging

    357...

    Thats exactly what I was thinking. An E1e and a 2nd Gen KL1. Maybe someone has a used E1e they would be willing to sell me...?

  24. #24

    Default Re: Arc Gouging

    I think that you've forgotten that , although there is a price at which something can be aquired there is also a price at which something will be relinquished. These high priced arcs are being sold at high prices because the buyer and the seller agree that they have a high value.

    I really like my cpf edition arc but if someone offered me that kind of money , I'd be willing to let go of it.

    As others have said, I think that 'price gouging' should be reserved for situations when things necessary for survival are being discussed (food ,shelter,water,medicine etc.)

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Arc Gouging

    Oddly enough, I've found we usually get exactly what we deserve, and what we wanted so much becomes anything but, farther down the road. Life goes on and the world keeps turning, with or without us. I hear hula hoops are coming back...

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Arc Gouging

    This has already been "discussed" when people started doint that with the VIP.I agree that those prices should be kept on Ebay or at auction,but not on the BST forum.Unfortunately some see otherwise.I find it ironic that some VIP's went for $300-400 and now are going for UNDER $200.Just wait until the LionHeart comes out!

  27. #27
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    Default Re: Arc Gouging

    5 or 10 years down the road, even Arc's offerings will only be a piece of portable illumination tool history. If the number of collectors of such exceeds the available supply, the prices will rise! If not....... In the near term, speculation rules! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crackup.gif[/img] (I'm not a flashlight collector, but I have a few. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] )

    Larry

  28. #28
    Flashaholic* avusblue's Avatar
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    Default Re: Arc Gouging

    [ QUOTE ]
    2dim said:
    Trouble is, those without dollars are denied a vote...

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Means the price was too high (because you don't want to or can't pay what others will).

    [ QUOTE ]
    2dim said:
    not to mention others too slow to compete with the frenzied mob.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Means the price was too low (because others snapped it up as a bargain).

    Seems like artificially set prices just won't work, eh??

    How about we let the free market of willing sellers and willing buyers set the price they agree to pay?

    Cheers.

    Dave

    (Full Disclosure: I just sold a bunch of Arcs in the past 10 days on BST, for - avert your eyes - big fat profits. All the buyers were thrilled to get these lights and the longest one took 2 hours to sell. And these sales created liquid resources for me to 1) donate to CPF, and 2) to spend on NEW lights, thus keeping the wheels of the Flashlight Economy turning! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img])

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Arc Gouging

    Old joke: two somewhat threadbare old friends are talking, complaining about the state of things.

    One says, "People who are rich are still so greedy. Why if I was rich and had 2 houses, I would give you one as my friend."

    His friend agreed it was the right thing to do.

    "..and", continued the first, "if I had 2 cars, I'd give you one of those, too."

    Again the friend concurred.

    The friend then added, "And if you had 2 shirts, why I bet you'd give me one of those, too..."

    "Well...no, I wouldn't," said the first.

    "Why not" asked the friend.

    "Because I do have two shirts" answered the first.

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Arc Gouging

    Guess I'm just frustrated, being not only Arcless and still somewhat bewildered by all the different variations, but without any 123 lights whatsoever. Just got a charger and battery though, from 4sevens, so I'm ready for when things slow down enough for me to catch up...

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