Advice on 'commercial' sound system

Advice on \'commercial\' sound system

This is for a small retail space, my shop. There are five spaces, three I'd like to 'sound'. A little more info...
Drop ceilings throughout so wiring isn't a problem.
Would like speakers to mount in accoustic tile.
Space:Kitchen-would like 2 pairs of speakers. ~14x20
Space:Retail area-1 or 2 pairs ~20x28
Space stock room- 1 pair ~ 20x16
Need FM, CD and Cassette.
Need recomendations on speakers, type and brand of components (ie. bookshelf or separate pieces) any suggestions or special precautions. I know speaker impedence is a concern, also there are splitter/controllers that will help there. Again any advice is welcome.
High-end quality of sound is not a concern, though we sell a small selection of CD's so a better sound on the sales floor would be good. Ceilings are 94" high.
TIA

Re: Advice on \'commercial\' sound system

get a parts express catalog

or look online

http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?&DID=7&WebPage_ID=25

Re: Advice on \'commercial\' sound system

You can do a 70 volt system for your ceiling speakers. I use Sound Advance speakers in most of the installs I do. They are very low profile and have 140 degrees of coverage per speaker. You can get them from a rep (PM me if you want rep info) for under $100 each including mounting brackets and shipping. Then you will need to get a 70 volt amp and other components. The good thing about 70 volt is you only have to worry about wattage and not impedence. The CT10 speakers I linked to can be used at 8 watts (doesn't sound like much, but they get plenty loud) so a 300 watt 70 volt stereo ( 150 watts per channel) amp would power more than a dozen speakers per channel.

I also use Sweetwater for other components. They have decent prices and usually don't charge for shipping.

I'm kind of in a hurry to leave right now, but I'll check back later this evening and give more detailed info if you still need it. I can also get some items at cost, but we can discuss that in PM.

Re: Advice on \'commercial\' sound system

yeah, 70 volt is the way to go in commercial sound.

Re: Advice on \'commercial\' sound system

I should have mentioned that cost is a concern. I'm not sure that going with 70V would be the most cost effective way to go. I am talking about a small, lower noise setting. So fewer speakers than might be best served by going with a 70V system. But believe me I am willing to learn.

Sweetwater link kept locking up my computer, though I can go to Java sites.
I ordered a catalog from Parts Express.

Re: Advice on \'commercial\' sound system

I think you will get plenty of ideas
from the parts express catalog

they have lots of different speakers and speaker components

in ceiling-in wall etc

constant voltage systems(70 volt)-Just stuff I found with google-never saw it before

http://wolfstone.halloweenhost.com/TechBase/spk70v_70VoltSpeakers.html

pro sound

http://wolfstone.halloweenhost.com/HalloweenTech/audint_AudioIntro.html

Re: Advice on \'commercial\' sound system

Thanks for those links markdi! Easy to understand, I haven't gone through all of the info there but let me ask this.
If I am making a small system without possibility of future expansion /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleye11.gif is there a reason to go with the 70V system? I think I can do the /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif to get the impedence matching right.

Re: Advice on \'commercial\' sound system

Your neighbors in Wisconsin have www.madisound.com
I have had good luck with these people in the past.

With that many speakers installed, You will probably need to go the 70 volt route. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif
Or just set out a bunch of jamboxes, ghetto blasters or boomboxes tuned to the same radio station. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Re: Advice on \'commercial\' sound system

Speaker impedance is main problem, most little amps won`t like 2 pairs of 4ohm spaekers conected never mind 5 pairs.

Solution can be to wire 4 or 8 ohm speakers in series , but second speaker will be substanially quieter than first in chain.Have done that for a youth club that had zero budget and 3 rooms with one with distincly lower voulme requiremnts.

Or use couple of cheap amps line level linked to main preamp to drive individual zones.

Adam

Re: Advice on \'commercial\' sound system

[ QUOTE ]
3rd_shift said:
Your neighbors in Wisconsin have www.madisound.com
I have had good luck with these people in the past.

Or just set out a bunch of jamboxes, ghetto blasters or boomboxes tuned to the same radio station. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Have you used them for a similar aplication? It looks like they are more into speaker parts, but I didn't go to more than a couple pages on their site.
I like the effect of a bunch of boomboxes tuned to different stations /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif

Re: Advice on \'commercial\' sound system

you are going to have problems
if you have an odd number of speakers per channel
2 4 or 8 speakers per channel is easy
3 5 or 7 go 70 volt

you are not going to be blasting it so you might get away with a 30 0r 40 ohm load per channel

depends on the speakers-size of rooms and expected preformance
or you could use 2 cheap recievers(integrated amp etc) so that you have 2 zones of volume control and a better impedance situation.

I would go hawk shoppin but I know how to test and fix audio gear.

Re: Advice on \'commercial\' sound system

I have to look at prices more but I'm wondering if I go with two smaller 'bookshelf' systems for retail and kitchen and then an already owned small boombox for the stockroom if I might not be better off.
Having two (3) different sources (so retail CD's can be played on sales floor and whatever in Kitchen and stockroom) would have its plusses.
Any thoughts?

Re: Advice on \'commercial\' sound system

Can go quite few yards with line level signals, in a non critical application, feeding aux or tape outputs/inputs around will happily go to 30` , possibly bit more, down screened cable.

Donts run them parallel to mains cables, dimmed or fluorescent light sources to keep inducted hummm down.

Dont need any exotic cable whatevers handy or Digikey/Jameco/Newark have at good price.Just make sure long phono cables are screened.

Saves having to listen to Minnesotan bagpipe music or whatever when hiding in stockroom ;-)

Adamn

Re: Advice on \'commercial\' sound system

[ QUOTE ]
LED-FX said:
Saves having to listen to Minnesotan bagpipe music or whatever when hiding in stockroom ;-)
Adamn

[/ QUOTE ]
No we get to listen to Lutefisk drying. And Sven & Ole jokes.

Re: Advice on \'commercial\' sound system

i've been asked to help w/ figuring out a sound amplification solution, and could use some help.

the primary use will be for vocal amplification for spoken word, nothing else. main hall is about 4000sqft, flanked on either side by additional halls of 2000. only the main hall will be in regular use, the adjacent ones will be for overflow the few times a year they are needed.

right now, a 70v system is installed in the main hall (currently 2000sqft, will double when finished) and drive about 10 ceiling-flush mounted speakers; amp is rated <100w I think, so not sure if it can handle the doubling in size.

it would be really nice to have sound piped into the two overflows only as needed, not all the time. also, they'd need the ability to have amplification in *only* the side halls w/o going into the main hall.

i was thinking along the lines of 3 amps, the primary and 2 smaller ones, daisy chained into the main amp, so that they can switch on either smaller one as needed for overflow, or use ONLY the smaller one when only that particular area is being used.

whaddya say? roughly how many watts would be required per room? (looking at the PartsExp catalog now). plus any tips on what to stay away from would be greatly appreciated. thanks!

Re: Advice on \'commercial\' sound system

DONT dasiychain!

Do it RIGHT
You have the output of your mic mixer/sound board (aka Line Level). Feed THAT to a Distribution amp (a "DA") and feed each amp with a different output of the DA

Re: Advice on \'commercial\' sound system

right now there's only one mic, and it goes into a preamp, which feeds the main amp. i was thinking of those amp that accept phono or XLR mike inputs, with line level outs to feed the 2 other amps?

Re: Advice on \'commercial\' sound system

technically, you should NEVER EVER split an audio signal, particularly if you are running balanced audio (which is what is on the XLR) - you run it through a DA. Whereever you think "splitter" - in pro audio, you think DA. What a DA (distribution amp) does is take a signal (in this case we are discussing line level audio), and splits it - but instead of causeing a mis match in impedance, and therefore levels - has the proper input and output impedence

These days - impedence matching - particularly in audio and RF is not as critical as in the old days. Almost all "consumer" gear has low impedence outputs, and HIGH impedence inputs - but this can lead to noise

Tradionally (and in VIDEO still) you must match output impedence and input impedence. Audio is traditionally 600 Ohms - Video is 75 Ohms. In video, it's still critical, because you have to be able to match sub carrier phase, and splitting can lead to reflections on the cable - and therefore ghosts

Probably more than you want to know, from a guy who has not done pro audio/video in 22 years

Re: Advice on \'commercial\' sound system

not at all, always willing and eager to learn new stuff. i do some a/v stuff at school, but mostly non PA type, and more computing a.v. thanks

Re: Advice on \'commercial\' sound system

Glad to see this thread revived /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
I got a JVC 3 CD 'bookshelf' system that will go in the bakery. Still haven't decided on a system for the 'sales floor'
I let this go back to real commercial sound now /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif