INCAN vs LED

hey CPFers!

I need your opinion on something.

Currently, I've converted my main duty light (I work in security) from a SF 8AX into an L7. And I love this light! It rocks! For backup, I usually holster a SF G2 or 6P.

From my experience (and from reading other people's experiences) I find myself confused...

- I want to carry the least amt of flashlights on my duty belt.
- I need a light for CLoseQuarter | indoor use.
- I need a light for distance | outdoor use.
- I firmly believe in carrying a backup light.
- Generally, I believe in the reliability of LEDs vs INCANs
- I also believe that INCANs have better throw than LEDs (as most other CPFers believe as well)

So I wanted to ask you guys if having my SF L7 as my PRIMARY duty light, and my SF G2 (or 6P) as my BACKUP, was the best way to go. Or do you guys have other suggestions for me to consider? Should I look at getting my hands on a TurboHead for my SF C3 or G2? Maybe that's the ticket... hmm.

Ideally, my flashlight's bulb wouldnt pop due to impact, the light would be CLEAR and without artifacts for indoor/closequarter use, would be BRIGHT and PENETRATING for outdoors use, AND wouldnt be too large on the duty belt. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Is there a light on the market that does ALL that? Or is my current deployment good enough?

Another concern I have re: my current deployment, is if I am patrolling outdoors, and during say a footpursuit I drop my INCAN light, and the bulb pops, that leaves me with my LED light. But outdoors and in the presence of other light sources, I find my LED just isnt BRIGHT or PENETRATING enough for me to find & locate possible threats outdoors. Thsi is coming from first hand experience. I simply prefer INCANs outdoors due to other light sources being around. The only time my LED light is BRIGHT as the SUN outdoors is if I am PERFECT darkness where there is NO other light source anywhere. But in an urban setting that is simply NOT typical.

Ok. Sorry for rambling. I've re-written this twice already trying to shorten it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Thanks in advance for any & all comments...
- CQB

ps. quick example: I was driving home from work in the dark & rain, and I observed a stray dog walking across the busy street. I pulled over to see if I could find the dog, etc. Although I had both the SF L7 and G2, at the time I was exiting my car, I quickly grabbed the L7. The dog ran into a dark alley. It was raining hard, and it was dark, but there were a few street lights nearby. I shined my L7 towards the alleyway, and MAN lemme tell ya, it almost did diddly squat with respect to uncovering the dark areas of the alley, etc. It was, in a word, "inconsequential". I broke off my search and went home, disappointed more so with the L7 than with not finding the dog. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif At home I brought out the G2 and L7 and did a quick comparison in my backyard, outside, in the rain and darkness. The G2 definitely had more throw and easily penetrated the darkness even though my neighbor's homes had their lights on. My L7 had a better WHITER beam, was GREAT if I was looking at something UP CLOSE, but the farther I wanted to look, the less effective the LED's beam was. Again, due to other light sources being nearby. Then I went inside my house and turned off all teh lights. My L7 KICKED *** as I went from room to room to the garage in darkness. The L7 just lit up EVERYTHING. The G2 was great too, but the beam wasnt as PERFECT, if you knwo what I mean. THe whiter beam from an Luxeon LED is just waaaay nicer on the eyes indoors as compared to an INCAN's beam indoors - IMHO. Sigh.

Ok. That's all. Unleash the CPFers and help this crazy CQB-guy that makes something out of nothing, heheheh... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Your comments about incandescents are pretty much on par with my own experience. Carry your C3 in addition to the L7, you can use the L7 for routine work and indoors to make the most of its beam, and the C3 when things get 'hot'. The Turbohead would be useful if you expect to be working longer ranges. L7 for close range, and the Turbohead when you really need to reach out and ping something.

What happens if you drop it.. well, that's a difficult question to answer, but that's why you have your G2 as a backup. If you need more output, try the P61 and its 120 lumens since it will not be used often - it'll give you more output than your C3's stock P90, although not in a concentrated beam.

- I need a light for CLoseQuarter | indoor use. - use the L7
- I need a light for distance | outdoor use. - C3 with or without Turbohead. See Project C2-90 in my sig, it's my favorite outdoor light, even under the glare of sodium vapor street lighting, the P90 cuts through both the light AND the dark like a lightsaber. Cars passing by wonder 1. who the heck is that 2. what the HECK is he carrying?!
- I firmly believe in carrying a backup light. - your G2, since it is lightweight.
- Generally, I believe in the reliability of LEDs vs INCANs - True. Each kind of light has its good points.
- I also believe that INCANs have better throw than LEDs (as most other CPFers believe as well) - used to say that till I saw the Surefire "Turbohead" 4th-gen KL1 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


- I want to carry the least amt of flashlights on my duty belt.

Understood, since you have to walk a lot on the job. I think the minimum number is 3 given your uses, because you want one high powered long range incan, one indoor light, and you'd best have one incan as a backup. If you have to use the G2 indoors in a pinch I'm sure it'll work, not as pretty like you said but it'll more than get the job done. Outdoors, you already know the benefits /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Man, that's why I joined CPF in the first place! Like-minded individuals who truly "understand" my flashlight issues!! KevinL, thanks for the comments. You pretty much nailed it on the head! I'm still wondering why I was so confused before?? =) I will take your advice and will carry the L7 + C3, with the G2 as b/u. Now I have an excuse to buy me the MAXpedition's dual sheath, or similar, heheheh. =) ANy other comments still welcome! Tks again.

... and I checked out your C2-90. WOW!! So I can do the same thing with my G2?? (My G2 has a pyrex lens - it's been modded by antoher CPFer.) Just have to buy a P90 and the R123s from JSB?? Oh dear - just in time for the Christmas crunch!! =)

Glad to be of help /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

The combination does put out a lot of heat, when I conducted my runtime test, almost too hot to hold (ambient temp: 30C).The whole light got hot, down to the tail, probably because of the aluminium conducting the heat away from the lamp. The batteries themselves do not get very warm. However, if the heat remains trapped inside as opposed to being radiated off by the aluminium, it might damage the batteries.

I'm quite sure you could run this combo for short runs (few minutes) in the G2 without damaging it, but if you expect to need it to run for more than 10-15 minutes I would recommend metal. All this depends on your ambient temperatures too. If you're concerned about thermal management and/or need extended run, you can try this combo in the 6P (which was the test rig for my runtime tests - works perfectly).

The P90/R123s only run around a maximum of 30 minutes though, because of the lower capacity of the R123s. Yes, all you need is the lamp and the R123s. Drop in and enjoy /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I should warn you though, that due to the protection of the cells, the light WILL shut off abruptly when one cell triggers the undervoltage protection circuit, and you will be left in the dark very quickly. You might want to take this and the other 'sins of rechargeables' into account for your particular job requirements. I for one will not run my KL1 on R123s because I feel that I'd rather have moon mode.

CQB, check out this thread concerning LED/incandescent for security/police work: why I still carry incandescents /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

hey thanks for the thread Leukos! Interesting read! Feels good seeing other security professionals / LEOs who share work experiences with their lights. I found myself nodding my head on more than one occasion. =)

Definitely notice this too. LEDs for me work much better indoors, but not as well outdoors.