Cateye - amazing performance

I have seen Cateye Stadium 3 in action, a bikelight. WOW!!!! The 21W metal halide bulb blasts out 1500 lumen and the beamangle is 62(!) degrees. That explains the low candlepower (3500). The burntime on this monster is 3 hours. My god, all flashlights will be a sad experience from now on

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by recercare:
I have seen Cateye Stadium 3 in action, a bikelight. My god, all flashlights will be a sad experience from now on

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

When Marty Goodman got his Stadium 1 prototype some 5 years ago for testing, he mounted it on his MTB and went down a fire road somewhere out in the woods at night. HID lighst in cars where very rare at this time in California. It happened that a group of hikers made their way up in the night and the complained about the blinding light. When he passed them he just said with a deep voice: 'don't be afraid earthlings'
(all from my memory)

I went to the site at
http://www.cateye.com/ph_0108HL-STADIUM.htm

It's only $425, but there is no info on the 1,500 Lumen claim anywhere that I can find.
Where does that figure come from ? (Not in the PDF manual either.)

Also, there is the warning that the Lamp takes 30 seconds to warm up.
But isn't there also a 1,000 times limit to the number of starts that a HID will take ?

lightlover

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by *something ridiculous:
It's only $425, but there is no info on the 1,500 Lumen claim anywhere that I can find.
Where does that figure come from ?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

From the lamp's manufacturer (Welch Allyn)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by *something ridiculous:
But isn't there also a 1,000 times limit to the number of starts that a HID will take ?

lightlover<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What? You mean when I spend an extra 1500USD to get the HID lighting system on my brand new car, I can only turn on the headlights 1000 times? That's a little over a year the way I drive!!!!! I find that unacceptable. Please tell me this is not right!

Kris,
you could always go to the expense of buying a new bulb !
Or, Especially if you're not-too-technical, just get a new car every year !

I'm sure that when I read the on-line manual of one of the HID Super high powered lights, (I think it was a Maxa-Beam, or one of that kind), the info given was that the lamp should/could only be started 1,000 times.
Maybe it's just that it's efficiency starts to drop after that point ?

Thinking about it, is a car HID the same ? I love their beams, but do they take 30 seconds to rise to full output ?
Maybe car units and this thing work in a different way. I hope so.

PeLu, thanks, I'll check out the Welch Allyn site.
(EDIT - Interesting site @ http://www.walamp.com/ )

If I remember correctly, HID is supposed to be ~3x more output than an Incandescent, so let's say that's a 21 Watt HID = 63 Watt Incandescent equivalent.
How much will one of those produce at 12V, I mean, is there a limiting factor ?

Is there a way of approximating Lumens to ##Watts at 12V, even if it's only a rough guide ?

newbie,
lightlover

Ps - Kris, have a good trip to Gall's this Saturday !

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by *something ridiculous:
the info given was that the lamp should/could only be started 1,000 times.
Maybe it's just that it's efficiency starts to drop after that point ?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, the efficiency drops from the beginning and is only depending on the working hours. When the bulb reached it's start limit it will just not ignite. But first it will get harder to start it, it will make more troubles at lower temp and so on.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
Thinking about it, is a car HID the same ? I love their beams, but do they take 30 seconds to rise to full output ?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The bulbs are the same (almost), but the ballasts are different. They are (controlled) overdriven after start to come to full brightness as soon as possible. And ignition voltage may be higher at low temperatures. And actually, they are made to last as long as the car (but sometimes one of them may fail, of course). Hella and Bosch made a lot of scientific work there.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
If I remember correctly, HID is supposed to be ~3x more output than an Incandescent, so let's say that's a 21 Watt HID = 63 Watt Incandescent equivalent.
How much will one of those produce at 12V, I mean, is there a limiting factor ?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It is as always: Depends on what you compare. The 10W bulb consumes ~12W with ballast (at least mine does) and give ~500lm, giving 40lm/W. A carefully overdriven halogen bulb will come to 25-30lm/W at 20-50h lifetime (under perfect conditions). So you will have only 0.5 times more efficiency.
The 21W bulb will take some 24W with ballast and give you the above mentioned 1500lm.
An overdriven 35W bulb at some 45W will come close. So the HID has about one time more efficiency, not three.
If you compare it with low end bulbs, you get any result.

Because the HID needs some kind of electronic ballast, I also compare it with halogen bulbs with electronic regulation (running at the perfect working point, soft start).

But HIDs also have other benefits.

If a 21W halide bulb blasts out 1500 lumen like the Stadium 3, the efficiency is 60lm/W.

By the way, I've heard the Stadium 3 is running at 17W, not 21. It's regulated down a little. There's a switch (or something like that) in the bulb that lets you decrease or increase the power. A friend changed it to max, and it measured more than 21W. According to him it was pretty close to a 80W halogen, but the burntime was reduced. So when Cateye states 3 hours burntime and brightness equal to 80W Halogen, they are right in a way. You can get 80W halogen and three hour burntime, but not at the same time.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by recercare:
By the way, I've heard the Stadium 3 is running at 17W, not 21.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The very same bulb is sold as a 18W, 21W and 24W depending on the ballast. And it is even possible to dim it down to some 10W before it starts to flicker.
Luminance is 1150/1500/1850lm for 18/21/24W

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
According to him it was pretty close to a 80W halogen<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As I wrote before: If you compare it to a cheap unregulated halogen bulb, 80W may be compareable. But I think it is more 'fair' to compare it with a high end regulated one.

Peter...

What sort of applications use a high-end regulated halogen bulb? Any flashlights?

PeLu,
--where do HeadLite III 's come from?
thanks..

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ted the Led:
PeLu,
--where do HeadLite III 's come from?
thanks..<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Flashlight Stork!!!!!!!!!

Sorry, Ted, I just could NOT resist.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ted the Led:
where do HeadLite III 's come from?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
It is the former Roosa Light. There are two series: the red ones, only splash proof and the yellow waterproof ones (designed for the marine). And the waterproof one is now available with a LVR, constant power over a long time and you may use as many cells as you want (at least 4, maximum should be around 10). More cells mean more runtime at same brighness. 4 brightness settings, one normal, one overdriving and two dimmed. Bulb is soft started for longer lifetime, different bulbs available. Size is in the Petzl Mega range. AFAIK all US made (this seems to be more of an issue as quality for some people .-)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
Originally posted by Ted the Led:
where do HeadLite III 's come from?
Originally posted by Cyclops942:
The Flashlight Stork<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And his/her name is IMO

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JB:
What sort of applications use a high-end regulated halogen bulb? Any flashlights?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The best incandescent bicycle lights for example (Lupine)
And on the low end, the HeadLite III.

Thanks PeLu,
My IMO url was the first one I clicked on looking for the HeadLiteIII -- but I kept connecting with a different place ('caves.org'?) -- don't know what went wrong. Thanks again!
(oh and Cyclops; quite alright, I know I was asking for it! ;>)