WA1160 vs. GH24

I ran a WA1160 on 5-cell AA NiMH and it looked no brighter than a GH24 on 3x123. I thought that the 1160 on 5 freshly charged AA NiMH's output 500+ lumens? I then added another AA NiMH for 6AA and the WA1160. It was definitely brighter that the GH24 on 3x123 but not extremely brighter. Then I added another AA for a total of 7AA and it was pretty bright. I don't know how long the bulb life would be at that voltage and I don't know what the lumens were (I get my lux meter any day now in the mail). Perhaps it isn't blowing the bulb because my batteries can't provide the amperage? I ran the 6-cell with the Rayovac IC-3 2000mAh 15-minute rechargable NiMH's. I ran the 7-cell with Sony 2100 Cycle-Energy NiMH's. So is it an amp problem or am I about to POP these WA1160 bulbs? The GH24 put up a good fight until I used 6AA and 7AA with the 1124.

Is it just my eyes or is there a problem I can't pinpoint?

Hmm,
The WA01160 should be pretty darn bright on 6 cells. The fact that it's taking 7 cells indicates to me that there's a pretty serious voltage drop. I think the thing to do is to run a voltage test. You're also mixing cells so the comparison becomes even more unclear.

You've been asking a lot of questions lately and perhaps it's time for you to generate a little data. Do you have a digital multimeter? If you don't know how to do this, it would be a very useful skill to learn since you are doing quite a bit of hotwire experimentation. I found that this allowed me understand what was going on in my setups.

BTW, the bulb will pull 3.45-3.5A so this seems a bit severe for the mAh of cells you're using. I would use 1800mAh or less for this draw.

Wilkey

I just have an analog multimeter. Perhaps I'll pick a digital one up from Fry's today. I didn't mix cell's yet with this run.

My Magcharger 1160 (5 1/2D cells, 6 volts nominal) BLOWS away my GH24 lights with 3 123's.

Not close.

I'd agree with Ginseng that the issue is either draw or possibly resistance in your battery setup.

Bill

I'll run some tests this morning and post the results. Here is what I'll be looking to find:

1) Initial battery pack voltage (5 and 6-cell)
2) Battery pack resistance (5 and 6-cell)
3) Resistance at the pedistal of the m*glite
3) Voltage when turned on (5 and 6-cell)
4) Current when off/on (5 and 6-cell)

If I can't find a spot to place the positive lead when I turn on the M*g, I'll just use some 30-gauge wire and rig a connection.

Am I leaving anything out that I should test for? I assume all the cheap multimeters can handle the amperage.

Those look good, make sure you run each test with each bulb in the circuit, not just one or the other.

P.S., how old are the mags you are using?

Bill

I was at Patrick's (unnerv) Bay Are Get Together last Saturday, and Gadget Lover tested a bunch of lights out on his "Cat Litter Lumen Sphere". My Mag 2D with five 2000mAh GP's, and the WA01160 tested at 280 lumens, and seems much dimmer than my Mag 6C with five 4500mAh C's. I know there is a serious voltage sag with commercial grade AA NiMH's. I am about to order some Aero 2000mAh high discharge NiMh AA's to use with my lights drawing over 1 amp. They are flat tops, but if like Aero's 1/2D flat tops, they will come with a flat positive button. We are losing a lot lumens with our commercial grade AA rechargeables!!!

Bill

Bill,
Just a slight refinement. Using commercial-grade high capacity cells with the WA01160, we're not losing lumens, we're never making them in the first place. The percentage lost due to absorption stay pretty constant in either case.

Pit,
Be aware that if you use too long a run of 30-gauge, you'll be introducing additional resistance that might be non-trivial. I use a standalone battery-bulb test rig that is hardwired and uses large gauge wire and low resistance connections throughout. You'll also want to measure the voltage drop as the bulb stays lit. You should see a rapid voltage drop followed by a steady drop then a plateau and then the same pattern in reverse.

The central question and the most important piece of data you have not yet reported is what you are using for the battery carrier.

Wilkey

Battery carrier is Fivemega's 8aa to 2D non-regulated. Gota go to work. I'll do this later tonight.

For some reason, I can't get the DC Voltage to work. It won't even do the battery check. Also, the resistance part was messed up too. I think someone broke it and returned it.

It was able to do an amperage reading using the WA1160 bulb. The amp drop was measured after 10 seconds.

Rayovac IC-3 2000mAh after 3 minutes of use:
5-cell = 3.40A ~ 3.24A
6-cell = 3.74A ~ 3.68A

Sony CycleEnergy 2100mAh 16 hours off charger
5-cell = 3.40A ~ 3.31A
6-cell = 3.82A ~ 3.72A
7-cell = 4.14A ~ 4.06A (WOW! Bright)

I have to return this meter in the morning and get another one.

Hehe, Tofu 'accused' ;-) me of being the posting 'monkey' /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif. Ginseng, is it always like this with n00b lumen addicts? Voracious, rapacious lumens addicts needing instantaneous lumen fixes?

pitbull,

give me a little more time...please /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif, tomorrow I'll start the Review threads on the unregulated & regulated 8AA-2D Willie Hunt/Skip Langan adapters that fivemega has unleashed, an apparent lumens epidemic!



Then see a few dozen pictures I have been tweaking for a thread on cleaning M*g D/C contacts for optimum current flow...a few more days, please.

Ginseng,

how about you tearing apart a M*gChr switch/pedestal assembly and providing your usual expertise and pics, I can't keep up with these impatient lumens addicts who need their fix now?

See this thread which I'll post more pic.s to AFTER I do the other threads. Mag drop in switch assy for WA lamps & Carley 1940

Bulls,

See this update to the thread, "high-discharge" Aero AA 2000ma?, have they actually been discharged with results graphed for uber current draw like the CBP1650ma?

Need to find a good AA Nimh cell

Undala,

Who's tofu? Five points if you know the reference for "Tofu Roshi" and no Googling.

Wow! Those holders look good.I anxiously await your rabid review. Built-in regulation? Most impressive.

Where did the issue of the MagCharger switch assembly come from? I think it's been reported (as relayed to and then by kongfuchicken, IIRC) in the last few months. I'm not hot on disassembling my MC since it is well tuned and operational. Let's just say it's a bit more involved than the Mag D switch.

Those graphs for the CBP1650 are something else. I've never seen a cell return two curves like that for such an amazing difference in draws. It's just amazing. I believe Jim mentioned there was a CBP killer cell coming up. Perhaps Jim could comment based on what he's found in the RC forums.

Wilkey

xpitxbullx ,

I recieved my 01160 today and have play it around too. I use 5AA GP1600 nimh to drive it. DMM reads ~3.2xA. But it appear a bit yellow beam. So I use 6AA nimh in it too. It is much brighter to my eye and read ~3.5xA.
So, now I also wonder what is the shortered bulb life of it for 6AA nimh. Anyone can suggest with this?

Got a new working meter. I took a couple readings with the same set of batteries I used last night. I didn't discharge or recharge them yet. but now I have to go to work.

(probes were placed at the base of the battery adapter and the tail of the body with the switch of the m*glite turned on.)

7-cell Sony 2100mAH = 9.41V
6-cell Rayovac IC-3 2000mAh 7.4V

I cant seem to get an accurate resistance reading. All I have are the probes. I just want to learn. I don't want to be a n00b. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif

WA01160 with 6 AA NiMH's, consumer quality, will not shorten live of bulb due to voltage sag. Need high discharge batteries to hold amperage/voltage.

Bill

Hmm,
On 6 cells, you're getting 1.23V/cell. Is that right after you turned it on? A stack of 5 high current 1/2D cells take 26 minutes to drop to that level. To tell you the truth, I'm surprised you're getting that high a voltage. The 7-cell stack is giving 1.34V/cell. That's pretty high as well. My super cells drop to that level after about 1 minute.

At a true 7.4V, the WA01160 will be making over 1,000 bulb lumens or about 600-650 torch lumens. It should be freaking bright.

Wilkey

I used 5x fresh 1/2 SubC 1300 NiCad to power the 1160. It went from bright to black in about 8 minutes. It was bright for about 2-3 minutes, then started to completely use up the batteries in the next 5 minutes. Does it sound right? Can I expect a better run time by using those 2000mah AA?

Also, I noticed that some of the 1/2 subC deplete quicker than others. At one time during the run, it went all the way down to .7v, whereas others in the same stack stayed at ~1.24v.


ernest

Vac,

Could you describe how you got individual cell voltages during the run? Or did you measure after the run?

I have used maybe 50 of the CP-1300SCR in pack builds and I've had only one bad cell in the lot. The voltage stayed around 0.7V and it gave false peaks on the charger. All the rest have taken a full 1.4V charge and deplete down to 0.8V under load and then recover back up to 1.1V or so. In general, a good cell. Not great but then there aren't any other choices that I know of in this size.

I use the CP-1300SCR to drive the WA01183. It's a 4-cell stack pushing the 3.85A nominal bulb up to around 4A and it delivers 1.18V/cell at 50% depletion. I get 17 minutes of high brightness followed by 1 minute of rapid decline. This is consistent time and time again.

My guess is that that is a bad cell in your stack.

Wilkey

I got the measurement immediately after I turned off the light.
As you may recall, I got these cells based on one of your recommendations. I don't use them much, but so far I've had two bad cells out of 10 already. One of them measured 0.1v after I charged a stack of 6 cells from a Maja 777+ charger.

I'll refresh the cells and try the run time again. Maybe I'm just lame /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

thx,
ernest

Vac,
If you're having major difficulties, I would contact the vendor you bought them from. It's not impossible that you got two bad cells. As I said, I've built around 50-cells worth and have only had one dud. Did you keep them as loose cells? Did you solder them into a stick? Did you solder nipples onto them? Maybe a secondary operation pranged the cells somehow? The no-load voltage shoudl climb steadily for a few minutes after you turn off the light. What are you using for a charger? Do you charge them individually or in a stack?

I charge my soldered stick using the Triton and have had good results.

If you have not used them in a long time, perhaps they've self-discharged to some degree dependent on the charge they had when they went into storage. I have also found that sometimes a cell that is really down and has been stored that way will false-peak on the first try. A reset and a second go ususally does it though.

However, I'm inclined to think that a cell that's registering 0.1V is dead for good.

Wilkey