Looking for a new car ...

I started my new job at a hospital recently (yay!). In the next 2-3 months, I will need a car as I will be giving my old one to my little brother. I currently commute about 70 miles a day, mostly highway driving, and so I looking to avoid getting a gas guzzler. My old car is a 1998 Toyota Camry (23 city, 30 hwy), so I'm looking to get something comparable or better, not to exceed 30K. Unlike many people, I view driving as a necessary evil. I have no interest in sporty cars nor SUVs. I would like something that is quiet on the inside, though, so as to make the long commute not too fatiguing. I've done a little research: No Prius - too small. Honda Civic hybrid - looks ok - pretty powerful and very good mileage. Anyone have any suggestions?

If it's been good to you, why not another camry? They seem about as reliable as they come. Or maybe a regular civic or accord.

Ummm. the Prius is actually as big as the Civic. The 2004 Prius is bigger than the Civic. If the Civic is a good fit then the Prius will be too.

Daniel (I enjoy driving a 2002 Prius)

How has the Prius treated you in the past several years? Any major issues?

No issues at all, other that the fact that a Starbucks cup would not fit snuggly in the cup holder. I added a 1/8 inch foam lining and that's no longer a problem. There is the fact that (unless I press a button) the air conditioner does not run when I'm at a stop light. That's not usuually a problem, and if it's hot enough to need the AC I press the button and take a hit on the milage.

The AC has no real impact on acceleration or milage when climbing hills or freeway driving. Kind of cool.

If you come from a Camry, the lack of a center arm rest will be disconcerting at first.

If all you do is drive a mile or two per day, the Prius will be much like any other car in terms of milage and polution. If you usually drive more than 3 miles at a stretch you will see some great milage. If you do stop and go you'll see some (relatively) phenominal milage.

I have a Camry, Pickup and the Prius. We use the Prius for everything except trips to the dump. Longest one way trip was over 700 miles. Highest was to Lake Tahoe (over 7,000 freet).

Good luck with your search.

Daniel

I don't want to dump on hybrid technology (I think it is a good start), but it'll take you 2+ years to recoup the additional cost of a hybrid over a regular gasoline engine. If gas mileage is your biggest concern, think diesel. That said, the Accord, Civic, Camry, or Corolla are all good.

My free advice. Probably worth what you paid for it.

Honda Civic is a great car. As much as car salesmen try to convince you that you are making an investment. don't believe it. Cars go DOWN in value & that's no "investment" that I want to make. Spend wisely, get something like a Honda Civic or a Toyota Corolla. Then use the extra $ that you'll have in your pocket for more lights or a nice vacation for the next few years.

One more thing . . . buying new is (especially on credit) is a very poor idea from a fiscal standpoint (read depreciation to make your heart palpatate). Toyotas and Hondas are better in this area than most "domestics."

gotta be a Honda Civic coupe. my uncle's Civic DX gets close to 50mpg on the highway. he bought it because he had to commute from Portland, ME to Boston, MA every day. i don't think it's city mpg can compare to the Civic Hybrid tho. and i don't think it's mpg can compare with the Honda Insight @ all.

also a bonus, most of their models are under $20,000. i also believe Civics have the highest resale value in the industry.

coupes:
Honda Civic - value package - $13,810 for manual and $14,610 for automatic
Honda Civic - DX - $14,110 for manual and $15,110 for automatic
Honda Civic - LX - $15,560 for manual and $16,360 for automatic
Honda Civic - EX - $17,260 for manual and $18,060 for automatic

the DX model is the only one i have any experience with, and it's probly what i'll go with when i can afford to get a nice vehicle. 'til then it's the $2000 used Sunfire for me. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/broke.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Edit:
almost forgot to include the links to the Hybrid and the Insight. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
Honda Civic - Hybrid - $19,800 for manual and $20,800 for continuously variable transmission
Honda Insight - $19,180 for manual and $21,380 for continuously variable transmission

I can't predict the future any better than anyone else, but I can tell you that currently the premium paid for a hybrid is recaptured when you sell it. In other words, it's puchase price is X dollars higher than a similar car, but it's resale after 2 years is also X dollars higher. The older the car gets, the more it will depreciate.

You can prove this using the kelly bluebook site. Pick any 2002 car you want (assuming you have the original sticker price) and compare it's purchase and resale price after two years and 24,000 miles. Do the same with the 2002 Prius. You'll find the resale of the Prius did not fall any more than the price of the other car.

It's neat that, as notos&w says, it will only take "2+ years to recoup the additional cost of a hybrid over a regular gasoline engine". And then you can sell it and recoup that cost again.


Daniel
P.S. In the mean time, it's a kick to drive.

I got my 2004 Civic 4 door sedan brand new for $14,000 "out the door". Automatic transmission, AC, Power windows/locks, in dash CD player w/changer controls & remote keyless entry. There are a couple of other extras as well but the total price I paid was $14,000. Now thats reasonable in my opnion.

Wow! That's a good price. Drive it out here when you are tired of it and you can sell it for most of that!

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Daniel

I am still a little leary of the long term reliability of the hybrids - just my nature I suppose to somewhat avoid the newest technology for a little while - but I tend to drive cars for 10+ years so maybe this matters more to me than others.

The only person I've known with a similar commute opted for a Volkswagen Jetta Diesel. Very tried and true platform and engine, and around 50+ mpg on the highway.

I tend to dive cars for long term as well and rack up the millage fast, but as to the reliablilty of Toyota's hybrid I belive the traction battery has a 10 year 100,000 mile warranty.
I have yet to own a toyota as I have had fairly good luck with both GM/Buick and Jeep vehicals when it comes to reliability and driver comfort. Anyway if it was My money to spend I would get the Toyota hybrid

I would stary away from imports at all costs, that is if you dont want to spend a fortune on mechanics bills when somthing goes wrong. The chevy cavelier has alot more power, and at only a tiny decrease in gas milege. Also look at the colbalt, and ford and chrysler have several good cars. You would also have the knowledge that your car isnt glued together like all the imports.

I also hear that Volkswagons using the TDI system are pretty good. I've not drivenm one. Unfortunately, it is also new tech that has only been around for a few years.

Daniel

You won't have many if you but Japanese -- that's the point. I own only one American car, a Ford, and I paid for that car twice, was stranded a good half dozen times, and sold it because it was wore out at 93K. I'm an engineer and really take care of my vehicles -- that car was pure crap. It was so bad in fact, that I waill NEVER buy another car from an American car company again.

At the same time I owned the Ford, I ownd a Honda Accord that I bought with 106K on it. I drove it another 60K and did only routine maitenance on it. When I sold it at 163K, everything worked, it didn't even burn a teaspoon of oil between changes. Honda Accords are made here and my Oddyssey was made in Canada.

Having said all that, I bought A 2003 Toyota Corolla with air and a std 5 speed tranny for just barely over $12K and have had nearly 40K trouble-fee miles so far. These Hondas and Toyotas will regularly go near 300K if you take care of them. Just turned out that I could get the Corolla for $1500 less than the Civic, so I went for it.

Rumer has it that Honda is going to bring in the Fit/Jazz in 2005, but with Honda it is absolute murder trying to get any info on future releases so that may or may not happen. It should get over 50 mpg, and is slightly smaller than a Civic. Over the life of the Pius, you will never make up the cost of the hybrid verses the amount of fuel you save.$6-8K buys a lot of gas!

I own a 85 silverado. It has had zero work done to it and there are zero problems with it. There is a good reason that you still see american cars doing real work a long time after they hit classic. Before i bought the silverado from my dad i owned 2 hondas and a toyota, the hondas were a 99 accord and a 96 civic and the toyaat was a 95 camry. They always had somthing wrong with them, Always. I spent nearly twice the ammount the vehicle was worth on the camry, and about 6k for the two hondas. I was stranded on I35 for 6 hours because of the 99 honda. they plain out sucked. My brother ran my 99 into a parked car going maybe 2 mph, and there was a HUDGE dent in it that really hurt the resale value. My 85 silverado, with 250k on it has NEVER let me down, it has way more power than either of those little imports had, i can actually go up hills now! I let my girlfriend drive it awhile back and she backed into a telephone pole going about 25, left no marks whatsoever on the car, no dents nothing. The body is made of solid steel, the frame is made of solid steel, its a very solid car, AND the door panels are screwed, not glued, onto the door. the panels in my 95 fell of one summer because it got oo hot, $250 to get fixed. Basically if you want slightly better gas mileage, at a higher price and a shotty build quility, choose an import. If you want VERY reasonable gas mileage a nd better quality, get an American car.

I'm not trying to get into a debate about the prius, but I do value accuracy.

Kenny's statement about making up the "the cost of the hybrid" is correct IF you compare it with a much cheaper car that is not similarly equiped. Bring them both up to the same trim level and the same size and the price difference dwindles quickly.

Even if you only save about $500 a year (12000 miles a year at 50mpg vs 40 mpg at $2.25 per gallon for unleaded) and drive it till it dies, the Prius will pay for itself well before it dies. If you sell it within a year or two you get the $500 a year savings AND the higher resale offsets the higher purchase price.

There are cheaper cars out there, and for some people the money out of pocket at purchase time is much more important than the eventual resale or the cost of driving it everyday. If you really want to maximize the value of your dollar, buy a 10 year old clunker for under a thousand or so and drive it till it dies. Then sell it for what you paid and buy another.

Just as a note of interest; there are some cars that don't depreciate in the first few years (Rolls used to be that way), and others that barely depreciate after the first 5 years. A rare few even appreciate.

Daniel

i like 3 to 5 hundred beaters.sure there ugly and aint fancy but all ya need is alibilty ya donbt have to worry about some nimrod lketting a shoping cart scrape it,if i bought new vechicle it would be a striped down ford ranger just 5 speed no ac no nothing