small bright caving light?

Im looking for a small light that has a wide pattern simmilar to a flood light. I will be using this for caving and exploring mines in arizona. I currently use a petzl duo belt 8 for my main helmet light but id like to have a secondary light as well. Any ideas on what I should get?
Thanks

I would recommend either the e1e + kl1 set or the X5t. It has a pretty clear and wide beam.

-tom

welcome to cpf and hold on to your wallet...

if you get the e1e/kl1 be sure and install Mcgizmo's two stage switch.

you didn't state your budget. mild to wild pricing.

in total dark single Nechia LED provides a lot of light.

ARC AAA is the backup light of choice for cpf'er. 6hrs+ runtime and very small form factor. be warned since ARC closed, price have run up.

Infinity Ultra G using 1x AA has 10+hours burntime, about same brightness as ARC AAA. those sold for under $20, countycomm anounced last of supplies is gone or almost gone.

Isn't Peak selling pretty much the same thing as the Arc AAA?

Mike

I have actually gone caving with a Photon light. (Single 5mm led light). I was on a trip and didn't have any lights with me except for my EDC at the time. I had to get in the cave and sit for about ten minutes to let my eyes dark adapt and then I could continue. Of course I could only see about twenty feet max. But it was do able. I would recomend it as one of yoru backups, but not a primary light though.

I currently have a Yukon HL headlamp. I give it a thumbs up. Since what you really need is a headlamp, I would suggest you post this over in the Headlamp area to get better results.

PS - I know that some people don't like the Yukon HL because the 5mm LEDs are over driven. But what people don't know is that they seem to be direct driven or such so that they actually will give you light for a lot longer then the Luxeon. I did two run down tests to check. They may start at teh same current level but after time they aren't the same. The 5 mm LEDs are much less, from what I have seen.

Take a look at the Nightcutter Sportlights (3 or 5 LED's). Really long runtime (48 hours plus), bright, small, waterproof, basically indestructible, dead simple to operate (twist head), will choke the last joule of energy out of a battery, and if in worst case an LED blows, you still have several remaining to light your way out. It also has a nice compromise beam with white LED's (the red and green LED beams are ringy which is fixable with some Scotch satin tape). Less than $25 from nightcutter.com.

I explore old mines extensivly as well as the occational cave. I have tried many different lights. I always go back to my trusty MiniMag® with a Lux III sandwich driven by a BB500. It uses AA's and I ALWAYS carry two spare sets of batteries when I enter a mine or cave. I have looked at headlamps but don't really like the current offering. I may get a headlamp in the future, though.

Kevin

P.S. I also carry with me a Pelican PM6 with a DB917 driving a Lux III for its throw if I want to illuminate a long distance in front of me. I also carry two sets of CR123's for that flashlight.

It sounds like either a BD or Myo headlamp would fit the bill. They are not the most luxurously designed lights on the market, but they both are small and provide plenty of light for caving. As was just mentioned, headlamps right now are not up to par with the general CPF expectations for flashlights.

Both the Petzl Myo and BD lines have textured reflectors, which will give you a nice, even flood. The Myo focuses better. Both come ina variety of configurations of LED and xenon bulbs.

Both wad up to about the size of a tennis ball or maybe a baseball. The Myo takes 4 AA's, so it weighs a tad more than the BD lights which take 3. You can get them with more, but these are the baseline models you would do best to consider.

PT makes a headlamp line called the Yukon which is comparable. I have never bought one, so I can't comment. Lots of people here like the HL which has a Luxeon Star; It's the only comercially avaible LS headlamp on the market I would buy.

And don't rule out moding a headlamp. Petzl Myo headlamps don't mod well, but BD headlamps do.

Remember that when it is really dark, you don't need TONS of light.

The Princeton Tec EOS is, IMHO, a great caving backup light. Or even primary light depending on your needs and preferences. It has a broad flood with a bright central spot. Battery life is great and weight is minimal.

But MINES!!???!! I've been in lots of caves, but mines scare me - they are notoriously prone to collapses and floods, etc. even when freshly maintained by experts. Caves are much older and, IMHO, more stable. Your mileage may vary, though, as caves are certainly dangerous enough.

General note: Caving can be dangerous. Caving without three (preferably more) RELIABLE, ADEQUATE (to get yourself safely out of the cave, with more than plenty of margin)sources of light is suicidal.
If you are involved in any caving "work" (such as mapping, rescue, cleanup, etc.) the rule for "adequate" is tougher - adequate to complete the mission at hand, without any inconvenience to fellow participants. You can't do real cave work with a MiniM@g held in your teeth.
I am aware that in some countries it is common for each participant to carry just one light, with a communal spare carried by a designated person. This is extremely unwise. I see no justification whatsoever for this dangerous practice which, as a provincial American, I attribute to European Socialist leanings. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
I often read here and elsewhere on the internet about people that cave using only flashlights. A flashlight is a handy thing to have in a cave, but a headlight is a must. Of course, a flashlight can be mounted to the side of your helmet. If you're actually going to cave WITHOUT a helmet, you might as well go ahead and bash your head against the nearest brick wall now - it will save the EMT's/coroner the trouble of getting all muddy.

Were I of the bent (a REALLY CRAZY bent as far as I can tell) to go deep underground on purpose...

I would likely wear a backpack stuffed with lights batteries etc.!

I'd try to get someone to do me a LUXIII headlamp, or put a LUXIII minim*g on a helmet clip.

I'd probably carry two Xenon lights, and several LED lights.

But then you'd never catch me doing that stuff in the first place!

I'd think there are plenty of lights to choose from. Something durable (lots of options) fairly long running (lots of LED options) something not too huge (again, most LED options). My gut reaction would be something from Princeton Tec... Maybe the Attitude. I wish they made something like that in a 4xAA form factor though. The Inova X5T would be nice as well, though for some reason, I think I'd lean towards something plastic for caving.

Of course, I've never been caving though I've been in lots of caves. In near total darkness, a pretty dim light helps a lot. A CMG Infinity Ultra, Dorcy 1xAAA or 1xAA would be nice as a backup to the backup. I've never even used a headlamp of any kind. Do they take up much room collapsed? Why not just take a second copy of your primary headlamp then a very small backup backup? Or a slightly lesser model if price is a big concern.

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MikeLip said:
Isn't Peak selling pretty much the same thing as the Arc AAA?

Mike

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some of the bodies may be close, but for a AAA, single LED config, ARC AAA's is still the world's best.

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cratz2 said:
Why not just take a second copy of your primary headlamp then a very small backup backup? Or a slightly lesser model if price is a big concern.

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This is sage general advice. Inerchangable parts may save your life someday. Although, as I mentioned, the Duo and most of Petzl's lights only allow the changing of bulbs and batteries.

In your case, though, another Duo belt would be unwise. Even a Duo is a bit overkill space wise. You are looking for something to stash in your pocket or pack.
Your main headlamp can be really bulky without any real inconvinience. The Duo belt uses C cells, though, and no one in their right mind would carry a spare. Even spare batteries may be impractical. 2 lights that run on either aa or aaa, with spare batteries for them may be a little better idea.

BD even has a few lights that have 2 independent lights in them. Well, not completely independent. The LED and incan share the ground wire, switch and in the newer models, a regulator. But the LED does have its own battery. These are the Space Shot and SuperNova.

my black diamond moonlight work just dandy in a cave (and it folds up small); however, I think the color of the light annoyed my fellow cavers. It was so dark that not a whole lot of light was needed.

Batteries last almost forever.

I should mention that it has been on the fritz lately.

-k

Carry an Ultra-G in any case...it's great as a primary....or a backup as mine was in a mine shaft when my lantern went out.

cratz2, I visited Carlsbad Caverns two years ago. The park features several tours of "unimproved" (i.e., no in-place lighting) caves. Having had some experience in caves while in the military many years ago, I was ready; a Stinger, a 6P, and a 6Z, with extra batteries for the latter two. These powerful incans turned out to be mainly overkill. Keep in mind that all we had during my earlier military excursions were wan incans; no Xenon lamps back then.

On one tour, Lower Cave, you're issued a helmet with light. LEDs were just coming into play back then, and they gave my wife a new helmet with an LED unit that put the older ones with with incan units in the shade, so to speak.

LEDs are the way to go in total darkness, no question about it. The extra run-time is a bonus; IMO, the quality of light is simply better for those conditions.

And trust me; down there, the darkness is TOTAL. Carlsbad Caverns is an amazing place that is well worth the effort to get there. Especially for those who have not lived a strenous life, it will remind you just how insignificant we really are.