Will the KLx hurt ARC LS sales?

V8TOYTRUCK

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Since a lot of us have the unofficial CPF EDC, The E2e with the KL1 is a very inexpensive way to get a high quality LS product. With the run time charts, Pyrex lens, and attractive design, I can't help but think, these will hurt ARC LS sales. I know there are a lot of die hard ARC fans out there, but after even using the ARC AAA, I haven't really been super impressed. What bothered me about it was that it crushes the battery every time I turn it on, and the nipple on the head under the foam also crushes. I've seen the ARC AAA maintenance thread, but all that work I rather buy another one. IMHO it is the best single LED light out there that fits on a keychain, but I feel it can stil be improved upon, I guess I will just have to wait. Whoa, now im really off the subject
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respond accordingly.
 

Saaby

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Wait what?? Let me start at the top...
All refrences to the Arc LS assume the Rev 2 and Rev 3 due any month now.

It may hurt Arc LS sales but the Arc LS is runnable in not only a 1x123 config, but also a 2x123 and 2AA config. Arcs now have a user-replacable tailcap switch. They will come with (for now, better product due...some day) a kroll, krill, whatever tailswitch--the kind everyone around here uses on their Minimag. You could also replace this with the tailcap from a minimag and continue to use the light in battery crush config.

I personally like the battery crush set-up. Mechanically, it's extremely simple, and most the time it's dead reliable.

As for all the maintence, most of the stuff you do there should be performed on any light. Can we use a medaphor? I think we shall...if you don't maintain an American car it will keep running, just not very well. It's performance and efficiency will decline, but it's gradual...you might not notice it. Perform some maintance and it's good as new again. If you don't maintain your Sweedish car, it's going to break down on you. This doesn't necessarily make it any worse, just means that you have to give it some more attention.

So clean and lube your E2 and bring it back to new...Change the oil in your Saa--er, Clean and lube your Arc and it'll start working again.

If, for the price of an Arc LS2, get a E1e, E2e, and a KL1 head, I'd be tempted. If somone could machine a 2AA body that would accept a Tailcap switch and a KL1 head, and I could get all this for the price of an LS2 (Not a second, a Rev. 2 Arc LS) I might do it.
 

JohnG

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An acronym not yet on the list: TWT.

I think we will all benefit from the competition, as consumers usually do in an open marketplace.

If Arc is hurt, I think it will mean they will be able to carry their LS stock for a day or two, rather than the current hour or two before running out.
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I, for one, am very satisfied with the Arc SLS1.

I won't be climbing aboard the SF bandwagon anytime soon.

Edit: Well, not for a few weeks, anyway.........it DOES say "Flashaholic" under my name....
 

MarcV

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Agree, JohnG. In fact, from my point of view the Arc LS has hurt SureFire's sales of the KL1. That's probably only 1 unit they could have sold, so SureFire won't suffer much. Arc LS is superior from my point of view -- pocketable, small diameter, pushbutton latching on/off switch, ...
 

Gandalf

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Of course it will, to a certain extent. Not everyone can 'buy both'. When the Arc-LS2 and LS3 come out, with their higher prices, I think a significant number of people will feel that an E2e, *plus* a KL1, is a much better bargain. For myself, I love my Arc-sLS, with all three battery packs, at a bargain price. But $200 for a first? I don't think so.... But given that the demand exceeds the supply for Arc-LS's, it may be a moot point. And for those who don't have deep pockets, or a ready supply of inexpensive 123 cells, the Arc-LS, with the 2AA battery pack, is in the long run simply going to be cheaper to run.

These two lights are quite different, and I think Arc will be able to sell all if it's production. Just not to some people who decide to get the KLx, instead.
 

Badbeams3

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The Surefire tail switch sells for $20 (from another thread). The KL head for $45 (?). So thats $65. If a moder could offer choices of batt compartments...at a fair price??

If Surefire could offer other batt compartment choices?? It would be childs play for them to do so...so easy. Surfire is for the moment stuck on the 123 batt. They know they will have fewer warranty issues with this batt (folks will be less likely to use the light often...so problems will be fewer). And...they are in the business of selling this batt. The reason LED`s are popular was thier cheap operation...and long bulb life.

The use of 123 batts wipes out the cheap operation benifit. (Smaller size...yes...but the 123 should be an option, not the primary choice). Led`s are meant to be used all the time...not blinked in an attempt to blind your opponent or spot your target quick. Led`s are meant for long searches...not worring about you battery and how much it will cost you to run.

Ok, rant over back on track. Yes it will hurt Arc. Surefire has big bucks to spend...so much so that they hand pick the bulbs...knowing full well that they will be rewarded for taking less profit by wiping out the ARC co. Arc just does not have the ability to hang in there for a long time and Surefire is counting on this.

They know the LED market will be huge and Arc is their #1 competitor.

Has anybody noticed Surfire has moved the BB from their site. And PK`s pic`s have disapeared. SureFire is battening down the hatches.

The fight is on.

Ken

PS: the KL line is a threat to some of the existing Surefires as well...it might slow sales of...say the "e" types, if folks were to rave about it`s great performance...some dealers might have trouble moving their stock...not a good thing. Secondly Surefire might make money off replacment bulbs...if the benifits of the Kl were toted on thier BB...well...you get the picture.
 

V8TOYTRUCK

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Somehow I knew I would get a lot of ARC fans backing up PG. Just like the thread I believe KenB started, ''Why KLx?''. I am in need of some convincing, ''Why ARC LS?''. I am not a ARC expert but

Saaby, How much are the Rev 2 and Rev 3s? IMHO I seen the pics of the ARC tailswitch, and I don't really like the looks of it. I believe a some people feel the same way.

I also don't have the need for different battery packs, I have loads of 123s to burn up. I also believe most of SF's flashlights use them. I have no need for other batteries, so I buy these in bulk, since they last for 10 years.

For the price of a ARC LS firt ( $200? ), ok you get 3 battery packs. Fairly bright output. For about 110 bucks, you can have the E2e, with the KL1, IMHO a great deal.

BTW, The Arc LS never made Craig's Top products list. The KLx series did.
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V8TOYTRUCK

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BTW Saaby, you don't think a battery contact that gets flattened with every battery change should be improved upon? This is why everytime I turn it on, I have to twist harder, or else I get the flicker.

JohnG, I use to be like you, thinking what is wrong with all these die hard Surefire fans, until I owned one. I admit I jumped on the ARC AAA bandwagon, everyone here said it was a must have. It is my favorite single LED light. Everyone here also said that Surefire quality was matched only by ARC. So I sold my Scorpion, and bought an E2e. Very Impressed so far.
 

Darell

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Wolfen - well said.

Though it is sometimes difficult for the players involved, competition is key. Better products don't pop up out of nowhere - there needs to be a target to beat! We the consumers are already winning, and it is a great time!
 

Badbeams3

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Originally posted by V8TOYOTATRK:
Pissed? If you something to contribute about this thread, then post it. ARGGGGHHHHH remarks can be sent via email.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, not pissed at all...sorry...removed post...just want everyone to have fun
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I think prices from both companies are way, way out of line with cost. If I remember right the LS cost was around $2.50 a apiece bulk...and step ups...around $3. I wish I could make that kind of profit. And in a way...I feel they take advantage of us. I hope a common company, Brinkman, Mag for example, comes out with a nice bright LS so I can afford one. All I can do is sit back and enjoy them through others posts. Although I respect both a little...I don`t love either one. I do side with Arc...but I always root for the underdog.

Ken
 

Termac

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The things that are hurting Arc sales are high prices and low production. Going forward, they also need to perfect their products. Surefire has no responsibility for problems in those areas.
 

Empath

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Personally, I think any manufacturer is doomed to failure that reverts back to pre-Henry Ford methods of production. Such methods should be used only for beta testing, prototype introduction, and generating personal income. The most obvious symptom of corporate fiscal anemia is an inability to meet demand.
 

vcal

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KenB;
A little off topic, but why don't you consider (for right now), an Inretech LS adaptor ($20) placed in an old Mag AA. You KNOW you want a bright, cheap-to-run LS flashlight!
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BuddTX

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I second what Darell and Saaby said.

Competition givs the consumer a better product, at a cheaper price.

I hope ARC and SureFire play "cat and mouse" for years.

I hope that Streamlight and SureFire will also play the same "cat and mouse" game.
 

JohnG

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Originally posted by V8TOYOTATRK:
I use to be like you, thinking what is wrong with all these die hard Surefire fans, until I owned one
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Change the "until" to "after" then you'll be like me.
 

rlhess

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I have a Lambda Illuminator, an Ill Pill, and Arc sLS, and a KL1 on order. I also have a bunch of SL 4AA LED on order (have one).

I'm still debating what my wife will end up with as her EDC. She warmed a bit to the Arc sLS/123 when it beat out her MiniMag/Nexstar this week.

I suspect it might be the E2e KL1 when/if I get an A2.

I think the competition is good. I think both companies will do well, although Peter's marketing plan and penetration may be an issue. I don't THINK he has the big bucks that SF does for marketing.

Cheers,

Richard
 

geepondy

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I have had my share of reliability issues with Arc products. However in each case, Peter was the first to offer such a product and was quick to replace the defective item with the latest version. I relish with great anticipation over receiving my Surefire KL1 and for what it stands for in terms of reliability and performance. I also relish the opportunity to buy the latest LED technology from Arc. I agree with rlhess about Arc's marketing plans and penetration. I'm very disappointed the Arc AAA is not available at a brick and mortar store.
 
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