LionHeart Power-On Menu Mode Problems

Got my Lion Heart today. Small hairline scratch on head. This is HA3 right? Looks like maybe a sharp needle or point caused it. Not that big of a deal. Very bad center beam, looks like a venn diagram with overlapping circles. Not sure how this is possible considering it's using a reflector. Is a great light in the basic mode.

My biggest, and only real, complaint of the light is the Power On Menu Mode.

Try holding down the button on a 1 inch long head while trying to screw on the body which has resistance and pressure from an internal spring pressing against a battery.
My immediate thought after trying this five times is there are going to be alot of crossthreading reports. It's tough enough to get the threads to line up correctly without trying to hold a button down.

2. Instructions say "battery tube needs to be unscrewed sufficiently to remove power from the LionHeart electronics." When exactly is this point?!?!

If I remove the head entirely and then just place it on the battery tube and apply pressure (no screweing), the light turns on. So basically remove the head, hold button, and place the head on the light, right? Ok easy enough.

Next step - "as soon as power is applied, the LED will light up dim". Ok, I see that. Mind you, I have to keep holding it there because it's not threaded in yet. Ok so I see it flashed and turned off. Great. Let's screw this bad boy in. Oh wait, I can't. I didn't perfectly allign the threads to begin with and thus I am cross threading (for lack of a better term). Also any wobbling will turn the light on and off as it tries to go in and out of menu mode.

Next step - "Click the switch from 1 to 3 times to select..." "If no click occurs within 2.5 seconds.." See second step. This is not happening.

If you are super fast and *lucky* you can get it screwed on with enough threads to make a tight fit, in the 2.5 second time limit, and then you can start configuring it.

I hope there is something I am missing here because my favorite light title cannot be bestowed on this light with this problem, what I consider a big failure in design.

I hope it's clear that I think all the other aspects of the light is great. Just the hotspot and menu need work.

Hi Dave,

I apologize for your problems with the LionHeart. I will inform you of three things about the light:

1) the directions (which will be updated shortly) were originally written with the Belleville Washer Spring, where a half turn or so would disconnect it and menu access is thereafter available. The tube remains threaded at all times. I can send you a Belleville if you'd like.

2) the hotspot and overall beam pattern can be changed; it is discussed HERE.

3) if you are unhappy with your HA3 natural (or bare aluminum) LionHeart for any reason, please return it for a full refund. Contact me via e-mail or PM. However, the all-black CPF Specials carried by Tactical Warehouse are not included in this offer.

Thank You.

[ QUOTE ]
MR Bulk said:

...3) if you are unhappy with your HA3 natural (or bare aluminum) LionHeart for any reason, please return it for a full refund. Contact me via e-mail or PM. However, the all-black CPF Specials carried by Tactical Warehouse are not included in this offer.

Thank You.

[/ QUOTE ]

How about that, a part-time hobbyist flashlight maker with a big-time return/refund policy?

Only buy from someone who stands behind their products like this.

I learned how to screw and unscrew things installing fuses in hand grenades. Righty-tighty, lefty-loosy. Also learned how to back off a part turn when I thought I had the threads lined up, just to make sure. If it's not in the groove, you'll feel it go into it.

I think my BA Fast-Track has one of them Amityville springs, 'cause I don't have to completely unscrew it to change between the UIs, one of which I never use. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

My Grey requires complete separation. But, I don't understand the big deal. I hold the head in one hand with that thumb pressing down on the switch and unscrew/screw the body which is held by the other hand. I lean back and rest my wrists on my ribcage for steadiness.

Design failure /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif ? Not in my opinion.

Hi Mr Bulk,

Thanks for replying. I really appreciate you taking the time. I would *not* like to return the light. I like the way it is except for the problems describd.

1. How does the Belleville Washer spring differ than what I have in my light? Is my version the finalized version or will all new lights come with the Belleville instead? Can you send me a Belleville? Are the new instructions going to be easier for the current spring I have?

2. Are you sure we are talking about the same problem? I think the reflector would only change the beam quality (ie sputtered orange or not, smoothness etc). I am talking about the very center hotspot. It's not a perfect circle like you'd find in the VIP or a modified Minimag. Its like two circles, very strange.

I, too, had no issues performing this task the first and subsequent times.

I had the same concerns with trying to rapidly screw on the head (worrying about mis-threading). I noticed that it is not necessary to screw it on at all, you can just push them together.

1 - Place the tail with battery inside on a table top (candle orientation)
2 - Hold down the button while pushing the head down on the body (far enough to make contact)
3 - Wait a few seconds until you see the LED flash
4 - Let go of the button and click twice to enter mode switch menu
5 - The light will be either High or Low
6 - Click once to change mode
7 - Keep head pressed down until you get the confirmation flash
8 - Now take as much time as you want to screw the head on

Hope this helps someone,

Erik.

[ QUOTE ]
sygyzy said:
If you are super fast and *lucky* you can get it screwed on with enough threads to make a tight fit, in the 2.5 second time limit, and then you can start configuring it.

[/ QUOTE ]
Borrowing from the comic book character thread in the Cafe, you'd need to be the Flash to do that.

The 2.5 second timer doesn't start until you release the button. Here's my technique: hold LionHeart facing left, left thumb on button, beam (if it were on) pointing into left palm. I think this position allows you to use the full dexterity of your right hand and most of your left hand. Completely unscrew LH in this position to get the hang of it. Now reassemble while holding the button down, using your right hand to do most of the manipulation. I am easily able to do the reverse-turn trick to align the threads. Screw LH most or all of the way together. Release button (and start 2.5 sec timer).

I was also able to do this with no problems in the opposite (L/R) orientation.

Once the power-up menu is understood (in other words, you aren't worrying about doing something wrong) then it all becomes quite simple. Erik points out that you don't need to screw it on at all - I screw it on just enough to hold it - you don NOT need to spend the time screwing it tight. No worries. Yes, the instructions were written for the initial hardware (that ended up only coming in the bare units).

sygyzy,

I agree with you, but I also disagree with you. Regardless, please understand that what I say here is not written with any anger whatsoever.

I agree that changing modes is an awkward thing to do, but I disagree that this is a design flaw. In fact, I knew it was going to be awkward before I even bought it. I figured that it had to be somewhat awkward to do. After all, there is very little space to hold a button, and there is only one button.

Remember how as Charlie (Mr. Bulk) was designing this light, he had to make many tough choices. To have a particular advantage, he had to accept a disadvantage of something else. That is normal.

I have other electronic devices that have a configuration mode that are awkward to use. For example, I have to use a CPAP machine to sleep, because I have "sleep apnea". In order to enter the machine's configuration mode I have to unplug it from the wall. Then, while holding down two buttons, plug it back into the wall - same concept as the LH.

In order for the LH to give me the advantage of an easier way to enter configuration mode I suspect that I might have had to accept the disadvantage of: (1) a longer light, and (2) a more expensive light. Furthermore, there would be no improvement in performance.

Charlie had to make a lot of tough choices while he was designing the LH. I remember him discussing most of these options with all of us.

Again, I agree with you that entering the configuration mode is awkward - and I wish it could be easier, but I could never accept that this is a design flaw. It was a tough choice between pros and cons, and I would have made the same tough choice, and, with a little practice, we can both get better at doing this. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Chuck

Really no need to screw it on at all until the whole operation is complete, just keep the head pressed against the body enough to make electrical contact (until menu mode is complete). This way there is no chance of messing up the threads.

Erik.

man i didnt expect to see this post.im in so much love with my lh.i use it every day.matter fact i use it to navaget my dads house so i dont need to turn on lights and desturb anyone.this thing puts out a crazy bright beam.but with a simple hold of light it can dim.i love the ui.

[ QUOTE ]
LightChucker said:
I agree that changing modes is an awkward thing to do,

[/ QUOTE ]
The menu wasn't intended to be a daily-use item... AND we didn't want anybody to accidentally stumble into it. The idea is to set the light up the way you want it, and never (rarely) have to use the menu again. The moment my light arrived, I set it up the way I knew I wanted it, and haven't looked back. The hours spent on the menu design almost seem wasted for something that is only going to be used a couple of times.

I have certainly never used an eaiser-to-use menu. Arc4 anybody?

Hi guys,

Thanks for the reply. I'll stress again that I am in no way "attacking" Charlie or anything. Afterall, I did pre-order and pre-paid for a light. I think I have some right to raise questions or concerns.

The problem with everyone's trick of *not* screwing it on, is each time you press the button, you put perpendicular pressure and risk losing the connection. Some menus require multiple presses and you have to execute this all the while steadying the light on a ~1 inch diameter base.

Another thing I noticed is as you screw down the head tighter and tighter, or unscrew, the light starts coming on and off.

Also, I have the light standing in candle mode, off. If I pick it up and place it down with a small thump, the light turns back on! Wow.

Edit: I was able to do the technique others have outlined and it is alot easier than trying to hold the light in your hand. So it's doable. I think being able to unscrew it a few threads, like some have mentioned, would be the easiest though.

So now just to get a new reflector and fix the "turn on with impact" problem.

Thanks for everyone's help. Sorry VIP, you just got usurped.

Thanks for the input everyone. Dave, one last thing (uh, make that two):

1) you can actually CUT the SPRING! Yes, clip a few coils until it will remain threaded (it could even be right at the very edge of coming apart depending on how many coils you cut off) after breaking contact. I simply spec'd the springs to a 3/8"-1/2" nominal height for more compression against the battery when fully tightened up.

2) if your light is that sensitive (bumping it turns it on) this means the switch button is being partially compressed by one side or the other of the rubber cap because it is not centered under the interior dome the cap, which naturally provides the most "headroom". Insert a pair of pinpoint tweezers (or needlenose pliers if they are pointed enough), one point each in any two of the six holes of the green circuit board (accessible from the bottom of the head when tube is removed), with the more widespread holes providing greater leverage of course. Now gently turn the board left and right. You can do it with the rubber cap in place, just twist it gently back and forth (circumferential movement will be ~1mm or perhaps less) and stop when you feel it is in the center of travel. Not splitting atoms here, just approximate the center by feel. The light should be fine after that.

If you are more on the meticulous side you can even remove the rubber cap to visually ensure the red switch button is exactly centered although this is not necessary.

Hope this helps.

To help keep the head stable while pressing it for the menu selections, use one hand to hold the head (gripped at + and - 90 degrees from the button position). Your other, hopefully more dexterous hand, will operate the button, perhaps using your thumb opposite the button, and index or pointer finger for pressing the button. This all relies on placing the tail end on a table to provide a stable platform to press against.

Sygyzy, don't take people's comments to heart when they indicate that your concerns are somehow blasphemy. I agree with you, both in the thread concerns, and in your belief that the Lionheart is an incredible illumination tool. I bought three of these beauties (all HA-3), and have no intention of ever selling any of them. I think that some people just get a bit touchy and misread statements.

Because you raised your concern, now other people have instructions to ensure they don't spoil their Mr Bulk works of art (after all, that would be the true tradgedy).

Erik.

In my efforts to change modes, I fear that I have munged up the threads. Not badly, probably, but it is no longer silky to screw on the head. It is more like fingernails on a chalkboard. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eeew.gif In an effort find a burr, I have now wiped all the lubricant off the threads. As you might imagine, it is now really scratchy.

I have now idea how I might have done this. I have been EXTRA gentle. I wonder, if fact, if it hasn't just been more of an issue of rubbing the grease off of a rough spot after taking the head off several times experimenting.

Any advice? In order to re-lube this thing, what sort of grease should I use?

I REALLY like this light, BTW. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif I am just bothered by an minor issue in my new toy. I'd like to remedy it quickly in order to aleviate fear of permanent damage.

Tyler

It just takes the tiniest bit of crud to make *any* threads grind. Get yourself a toothbrush and some WD-40 or kerosene and chase those threads with the dampened brush. You shouldn't really need lube on the threads if they're clean and not munged up. I'd use some of the conductive Ny lube on the threads if I did lube them (which I haven't). The threads pass the negative power in this light.

Let me try to understand, after playing with unscrewing the head about 30 times (there is no more of that coating left on the threads on the base for some reason /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif )

Ok, so there are 2 configuration modes? 1 and 0?
and 3 configuration selections?
I think the directions would be much mroe clear with some sorta table or something so I could understand this stuff

I could swear there was a mode where you can jsut cycle 5 present brightness and thats it but I have not been able to get it into this mode except when adjusting another mod..or smething like that /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

This directon seem liek they are in some crazy order and I can't seem to figure them out! THe numbering has me compleatly lost /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif I swear is was clear as crystal the first time they were explained in the thread, but I can't find that page and the ones on the website are clear as mud to me.

Ok I figured it all out. there are 2 configurations and 3 settings called "configuration settings" lol

I still don't follow your instructions however...

it would have made alot more sense if it was explained in a better order I think.

Well it all makes since now. New favorite toy!

Tyler, it sounds like you just broke it in man. This will eventualy happen if you actualy use your toy anyways. The same thing happened on mine, I think it's because Mr B origionaly did not intend to use a spring so you need to aplly more pressure on the head than with a similar flashlight (my VIP), since there is already tension on the spring before screweing the head down. I found a small burr after removing the head a couple times and wiped it out but it had already messed up some of the coating *shrug*.

I put some White Lightning on the threads of mine, I use this stuff on high wear parts like RC car dogbones and drive cups and it almost compleatly reduces any wear on anything. However it's kinda waxy so it might not be conductive (more than likely not), but I haven't noticed any side affects from it as far as that goes. You can get it at any Bicyle store it's made for bike chains so I would imagine it would be good on O-rings also. It is also a "self cleaning Lubercant" so if you wipe it off and re-apply every so often it actualy should clean the threads. I'm sure there are better conductive lubercants out there though, but I'm going to try using this for a while

I am wondering if there is some issue with Allodyne-on-Allodyne threading (that gold chemfilm on the unanodized parts)? I heard of no similar issues on the bare alums. nor the VIPs for that matter...BTW the Allodyne is simply there as an anti-corrodant. From what I have been made to understand in recent months from experts who know better, it neither enhances nor reduces conductivity.