CR123s vs. rechargeables

Am wondering whether to abandon the pretty little torches that use expensive CR123s (yes, yes, I know they can be bought for $1 + shipping online, but.....I'm cheap!), and go with a torch collection using commonly available and cheap AAs, C, & Ds. Of course, the next step would be a NiMh charger and rechargeables (some of our nice fellow-CPFers recommended the Vanson Universal charger @$24.95).

Would like to hear from any members who have gone that route (ditch the CR123s and gone with alkaline or rechargeable AAs, Cs, & Ds), and what their experience has been. It seems to me, if we spend a lot of $ to get high performance flashlights, then the way to get that performance out of them is to keep them fully charged, rather than having to put up with the quickly draining CR123s, that seem to go all too fast, even in "regulated" lights.

Would appreciate any thoughts. Thanks.

I have a VIP with the included 123 body, and the after market 2AA body. I use both, but notice that recently I am using the 123 body setup. Just smaller, cuter. The 123 setup works just great in low and medium mode, runtime wise. When I want to use the VIP in the high mode, I hook up the 2AA body. Mmore to the point of your question, I had chucked the 123 lights, or have left them in drawers, preferring the "guilt free" rechargeable lights. That was before I purchased the VIP. Somehow my thinking changed, and I see the value of that little 123 light, with a back up AA tube. I guess I can have my cake, and eat it too.

Bill

Thanks, Bill, for your thoughts and experience with the VIP.

Don't forget that with many 123 lights, rechargeable 123's work well. The Arc4 is particularly good, but anything using a BadBoy sandwich (such as the FireFly) works well. I've been running such a setup for quite a while and it works very well - and I haven't had to use a single CR123 in months.

Please tell me more about 123 rechargeables. Are these the Pilas? Or, are these the ones used in conjunction with the small one-at-a-time charger I've seen at Batterystation.com?

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srue said:...I haven't had to use a single CR123 in months.

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Me neither. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Bye bye primaries. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink2.gif

AFAustin: Search JSB 123. There are numerous threads. I'm using the protected 3.7V version.

BTW, I prolonged the plunge to 123s for a long time, and was sticking with AA rechargeables. Nothing wrong with them, but it's very nice to have a nice small package. My favorite comparison is my Blaster Jr. (3AA cells) to my Micra with booster head. Same optical performance, but 1/3 the size. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

In fact, with a winter jacket on, I can attach the lanyard to my wrist, slip the light up my sleeve, and you would never know it's there. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

Ok I have searched enough and have found many reasons why the unpprotected circuit is not a good idea and that most prefer the protected ones.My question is why do they even make a cell that is un-protected?...I know that the cost is probably always lower however with all the problems associated with an un safe cell why would a manufacturer even bother?..Is there some situation where an un-protected r123 would be better than a protected one?.Does an un-protected r123 last longer or give more current maybe?....Just curious as I have really had my eye on these for some time.I do not like the idea of having to always worry about my charger or the status of my battery so I will likely go for the protected cell.Just makes sense to me and I was curious as to why anyone would even buy an unprotected cell if there is an alternative.

AFAIK, most devices that use li-ion cells have the protection circuits built into the device so the battery doesn't need another one. I would think that we flashaholics are part of only a very small percentage of users that actually require the protection circuit to be in the battery itself. Even so, newer components like the Wiz2 and the LH already have voltage cut-offs designed into the electronics to protect the battery.

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Robocop said: found many reasons why the unpprotected circuit is not a good idea ......My question is why do they even make a cell that is un-protected

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It depends on the applicxation. For a light which takes care about the cells (like the Arc4 and the HDS lights) I prefer unprotected cells.
The built in electronics take much better care of this issue and I have the option to override it if necessary.
An additional built in 'protection' may interfere with that (although experiences show that it is not likely with current available setups).
Another very simple reason: Usually you have more cells than torches/flashlights using them. So you pay (in size, money and weight) more times than necessary for the 'protection'.

Hello Robocop,

In addition to what others have pointed out, I believe the unprotected cells have more capacity. The protection circuit takes some room and the 123 cell is only so big.

I have very limited data on this, but I seem to recall that the unprotected cells were around 600 mAh and the protected ones around 400 mAh.

Tom

Unprotected cells are more of an OEM thing than a consumer product. A maufacturer would put his own protection circuit in as part of the charger. Cell phones are an excellent example of that.

Well I understand now and I believe I would also want to stay with the protected versions....Ok let me get this correct here.There is a such thing as a protected cell as well as a protected or safe charger.If I have unprotected cells will the charger that is protected keep them safe and if I have a crappy charger but protected cells will the cells keep the charger from destroying them.....In other words is it best to get unprotected cells with a standard charger or go for the higher capacity unprotected ones and just get a protected charger?

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Robocop said:
Well I understand now and I believe I would also want to stay with the protected versions....Ok let me get this correct here.There is a such thing as a protected cell as well as a protected or safe charger.If I have unprotected cells will the charger that is protected keep them safe and if I have a crappy charger but protected cells will the cells keep the charger from destroying them.....In other words is it best to get unprotected cells with a standard charger or go for the higher capacity unprotected ones and just get a protected charger?

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You have to get a charger that's designed to charge Li-Ion cells, it will handle both, protected/unprotected. For instance, you "can't" use a Pila charger on unprotected cells because it's designed to charge Pila protected cells only and maybe dangerous for you and the cells when used on unprotected cells! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif

Hello Robocop,

To borrow a line from "Dirty Harry" - "Do you feel lucky?" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Let's explore what the protection does for the cell.

1. It protects against over voltage.
2. It protects against under voltage.
3. It protects against over current (direct short).
4. There may also be a thermal shut off as well.

The trade off is that the protection circuit takes space and the cell capacity is reduced.

Now the question you have to answer for yourself is "What light am I going to use these cells in?"

If your answer is a light that draws over 1 amp, you may be better off with more capacity.

Most of the "rapidly venting" stories I have read have involved cells being overcharged. There have been very few about cells shorting out.

With this in mind, I tend to go with a dedicated "smart Li-Ion charger" and unprotected cells. The risks in doing this are:

1. If the cell shorts out, I will ruin whatever the cell is in. If the shorted cell is in a flashlight near some combustible material, I could have a fire to extinguish.

2. If I do not watch the light dim, I could ruin the cell by over-discharging it.

3. If I draw too much current from the cell, I may ruin it.

The charger will take care of the over charging problem, so I don't have to worry about that.

I figure that most of the risk is that I will ruin a cell, but "Do you feel lucky?..."

Tom