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Thread: U2 with unfavorable tint - what now?

  1. #1
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    Default U2 with unfavorable tint - what now?

    OK, so I got my factory sealed (as far as I know) U2. A beautiful piece of work it is, as so many have already expounded. Unfortunately, I think I lost the Luxeon lottery here. It has a green-yellow tint that is readily apparent to me, even absent comparisons with other lights. I'm willing to buy another one, hoping for a different tint - anything else would be better to my eyes. Then I would just resell this one I suppose.

    Is it likely to be a fairly even distribution amongst the other tints - pink, blue, violet, yellow, etc? Or do I run a very high chance of getting another greensh one?

    And who to buy the next one from? It would be too much to expect a vendor to preview his product and tell you what tints he has available, but dang, I wish you could!

    Looking for advice here [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif[/img]. I know from a practical point of view this is a little silly, but this is less of a pure tool to me and more of a lifestyle perk, and I want to be completely pleased with it.

    Thanks in advance,
    Chip

  2. #2

    Default Re: U2 with unfavorable tint - what now?

    From what I have read here on CPF, if you send it back to SureFire, they will replace it no matter where you purchased it from. Call SureFire, they have a great customer service department-they will help you. I have 3 U2's with no problems with tint but one of my lights has a faulty tail cap. SureFire is sending me a new one.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: U2 with unfavorable tint - what now?

    I'm a little doubtful Surefire would exchange a light just because I don't like the tint bias - that isn't exactly something they guarantee. But if it has been the experience of others that they do, it would be worth a shot.

    Chip

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    *Retired* NewBie's Avatar
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    Default Re: U2 with unfavorable tint - what now?

    I'm sorry to hear you were a Surefire Luxeon lottery victim.

    Good Luck!

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    Default Re: U2 with unfavorable tint - what now?

    Chip,
    I hate it when people give up a fight as early as you have! Be a warrior for your $270 investment.You deserve a white light. SF doesn't inspect their "$270 goldmine lights" for objectionable tint when they assemble them. If Lumileds says that their emitters are white, then that is enough for SF. A SF assembler puts all components together, and turns it on. If it works, it gets put in a box and placed on a stock shelf.

    SF owes you! Demand that SF replace your light "because you are not satisfied with it." Don't let them bamboozle you with "tint is not covered under our lifetime warranty" crap. My approach should work, if you have enough time to wait until they ship it to you.

    In the future, may I recommend that you buy any SF lights from my dealer Steve at The Product Wizard..... The Product Wizard SF page

    Also, look at the thread developed as a result of my Cheers post here..... Cheers to Steve of "The Product Wizard"

    You are going to like this policy statement..... Due to the fact that the tint of the U2 varies so much, as a courtesy to any CPF member who calls or visits his store, Steve would be happy to open the box of a U2 and verify that the color of the light output is as white as possible.

    Let me now how you made out with SF.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: U2 with unfavorable tint - what now?

    In this price class.

    Send the durn thing back..........

  7. #7
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    Default Re: U2 with unfavorable tint - what now?

    It occurred to me the other day that pure white light doesn't always render colored objects in the most pleasing way. Therefore I've come to accept and enjoy (even more than I already do) my more warmly toned LED lights that don't fit the general CPF stereotype of the "perfect" tint. I also seem to recall a recent post by McGizmo regarding "X" binned lights with "offwhite" tints but killer output. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

  8. #8

    Default Re: U2 with unfavorable tint - what now?

    Sheesh,

    I thought the higher end lights would be less susceptible to the Lottery. Agree with others, at that price point, send it back till you are satisfied.

  9. #9
    Flashaholic* RonM's Avatar
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    Default Re: U2 with unfavorable tint - what now?

    With a light that pricey you shouldn't be subject to the Luxeon lottery. In a sub $100 light, you get what you get, but that's just not acceptable at the price of the U2. Insist that SF do the right thing.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: U2 with unfavorable tint - what now?

    I could live with some blue in the beam (I'm used to it from Nichia 5mm whie LED's) and even a little yellow wouldn't be too bad, since *every* incndescant light is *very* yellow, but if I can see the green in a $280, when I'm not comparing it to another light, I'd be mighty pissed off, too.

    By default, a lights that costs this much shouldn't have a bad tint.

    The fact that SureFire is willing to take *so much* of your hard earned money, and deliver a light which has such a bad tint, speaks to how little they have come to regard their customers.

    Good luck getting it exchanged....and I certainly hope the LED doesn't suffer a sudden, unexplained complete failure, which would then force SF to replace it. I wouldn't want to hear about that happening to one of their $280 'wonder lights'.

    (Like I wondered why I paid so much....?) [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif[/img]

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    Default Re: U2 with unfavorable tint - what now?

    Thank you Gandalf. There seem to be a growing number of SureFire owners with "real world and practical" issues with SF and their self-proclaimed "world class" products. What is going to be done about this growing problem?

  12. #12
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    Default Re: U2 with unfavorable tint - what now?

    Let's keep this thread constructive and don't bait please.
    First and final warning.

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    Default Re: U2 with unfavorable tint - what now?

    B@rt,
    PM sent at 4:27PM EST.

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    Flashaholic sigp6's Avatar
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    Default Re: U2 with unfavorable tint - what now?

    Seeing as tint is so subjective how is Surefire supposed to make everyone happy?

    Other than testing them out yourself in a B&M store, I don't see how you guarantee the *perfect* tint. One man's perfectly white tint is another's awful, green tint...

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    Default Re: U2 with unfavorable tint - what now?

    [ QUOTE ]
    Blinded said:
    I'm a little doubtful Surefire would exchange a light just because I don't like the tint bias - that isn't exactly something they guarantee. But if it has been the experience of others that they do, it would be worth a shot.

    Chip

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Surefire just changed out an L1 due to poor tint. your experience may differ.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: U2 with unfavorable tint - what now?

    My U2 is a warm or yellow compared to my KL4 head on a white wall. Is that worth complaining about? I have other LEDs that are a bit bluish which I don't mind but green! Yuck!!

    cy:

    Can you explain just exactly what your "poor tint" was on your L1?

  17. #17
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    Default Re: U2 with unfavorable tint - what now?

    I think my troubles are solved. My father, who has a red-green visual color deficiency, doesn't find my greenish U2 objectionable at all and wants it. Dear old Dad!

    I've also talked to a vendor who offered to check out a few of his stock if necessary and send me a U2 with an acceptable tint (he says all samples he has seen have some tint) and flawless beam - and I've taken him up on that. He actually offered to simply swap my greenish one for me, since he is already sending some greenish U2s back to Surefire, but I wasn't going to impose on him in that fashion. I would sing his praises here, but since he isn't yet a CPF sponsor (though it is his intention to become one) I'm going to refrain for now.

    Thanks to everyone for their input. This experience does underline the benefits of developing a relationship with a service oriented vendor, even if they aren't the absolute lowest cost choice.

    Chip

  18. #18
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    Default Re: U2 with unfavorable tint - what now?

    [ QUOTE ]
    sigp6 said:
    Seeing as tint is so subjective how is Surefire supposed to make everyone happy?

    Other than testing them out yourself in a B&M store, I don't see how you guarantee the *perfect* tint. One man's perfectly white tint is another's awful, green tint...

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Back when the KL1 first came out, SureFire was reading the discussions on this board, and they knew we CPF members would very unhappy with green tinted KL1's. Unfortunately, to avoid getting any green tinted Luxeons, they went to ones which were blue/violet. I still have one, and it really doesn't bother me much. I'd much rather have that, than a greenish KL1

    If SureFire could do it back then, when bins were poorly defined and sorted, on a $50 LED head, why can't they do it now with a light with a factory mandated price of $270?

    This isn't a rhetorical question; the answer is: it can be done; it's been done before, but it simply isn't being done now. Why not?

    I'm forbidden by the CPF esteemed moderators, from stating my opinion for the obvious reason for this. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

    But you can be sure of this: SF doesn't yet have an incredibly luctative contract for this light yet; our Federal Government works far to slowly for that to have happened yet.

    So the vast majority of people who are buying this light now is....us.

    CPF members.

    But not me. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif[/img]

  19. #19
    *Flashaholic* B@rt's Avatar
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    Default Re: U2 with unfavorable tint - what now?

    Your wish is my command... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banned2.gif[/img]
    I'm getting tired of your meaningless innuendo's. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dedhorse.gif[/img]

  20. #20
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    Default Re: U2 with unfavorable tint - what now?

    [ QUOTE ]
    wptski said:cy: Can you explain just exactly what your "poor tint" was on your L1?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    the beam was purpleish and had streaks of yellow and was brighter than the new L1 sent back with 3watt. funny thing beam color is better, but wish I had my old light back.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: U2 with unfavorable tint - what now?

    Like many other CPFers, I am always seeking the "holy grail" from LED lights in terms of beam perfection, LED tint, and brightness.
    While beam perfection and brightness are correctly pursued from SureFire in their lights, LED tint is a feature that only special people, like us, looks after.
    For this specific reason, I may get upset if a receive a dim light and I may complain; not if I receive a greenish tinted light. Like I did with the KL1, the L4, the L6, I keep "playing" the lotto until I get what I like.
    In order to ease the problem, the act of blaming the manufacturer, SF in this case, is of no help at all. There are two avenues approaching the problem, IMO, and both difficult to follow. The first would be to convince SF to setup a limited edition of (let's say) the U2, with special binned Luxeons, and be prepared to pay premium price; the second, is to intervene with Lumileds to have them develop/select Luxeons with warranted tint.
    It is already happened with Arc and the Premium LSes; tint variances are something simply not understood outside the flashaholic circle. I would be happy to pay little more for a "certified tint" rather than buy 5 or 6 LED lights and later get rid of the non-white ones.

    Anthony

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    Default Re: U2 with unfavorable tint - what now?

    Buon giorno Anthony,
    The first avenue that you have suggested SF follow, has a major flaw, amico! The currently manufactured U2, is already at "the limited edition premium price" of $270. For that money, we should be getting a light with a hand picked Luxeon emitter, that has the best flux, tint, and forward voltage, and is the most expensive bought by SF. For the others that are of lesser integrity, the price should reflect the quality of the emitter's flux, tint, and forward voltage. The more inferior the emitter is in any of these binning parameters, the lower the price should be. How am I doing gang?

    Will SF be willing to lower the price of a U2, because they can "certify" that an emitter is bad? Think about it!

    Ciao bella!

  23. #23
    Flashaholic* Mark2's Avatar
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    Default Re: U2 with unfavorable tint - what now?

    [ QUOTE ]
    Ray_of_Light said:
    ... The first would be to convince SF to setup a limited edition of (let's say) the U2, with special binned Luxeons, and be prepared to pay premium price...
    Anthony

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Well, some would say that $270 already is kind of a "premium price" for a 5W Luxeon flashlight... The U2 is Surefire's premium LED-based light and Surefire is the premium manufacturer of LED flashlights, so it's understandable that people expect to get a "premium light" when they purchase a U2.

    I once contacted Surefire regarding an L4 with an ugly greenish/yellow tint, and they actually replaced it, but I'm pretty sure they didn't check the tint since it was almost as bad as the one I sent them. I guess they just send you a new one, which is just another chance in the Luxeon lottery. I've never bothered Surefire with tint issues since then.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: U2 with unfavorable tint - what now?

    It seems to me that tint issue of the 5W LED lights is being addressed as if they are now as well along, tint wise, as the the Lux III LED's. I have not had much experience with the 5W LED's but based on the little experience I have had, It seems easier to get better tints if one is willing to go down to U bin flux.

    It seems that SureFire's claims about the U2 are not coincident with certain CPF expectations. The good news is that no one is being forced to buy a U2 nor is SF claiming a perfect white tint with what they are selling.

    Lumileds has much room for improvement in regards to the 5W and I look forward to future advancments! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img] In the mean time, I can't see SF changing their method of doing business at the behest of a vocal and likely small and demanding group of "perfectionists"; not to say that the comments aren't heard and without tempering effect. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif[/img]

    To those on a crusade, enjoy your travels! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nana.gif[/img]

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    Default Re: U2 with unfavorable tint - what now?

    Mark2,

    When you sent in your lights to SF complaining of objectionable amounts of tint, did you insist that whomever was going to replace the light did a visual inspection to make sure that you, the customer, will not be disappointed for the second time? Or did you say nothing and "leave it to SF to replace it per their policy?" I can imagine what happens when a part is going to be replaced. Someone gets your request from "Central Command", pulls a box from a shelf, places it in a insulated box, puts on the shipping label, and waits for the carrier to pick it up. This could happen time and time again, unless you make your wishes known.

    How is anything going to change, if we as consumers don't take the "assertive steps" necessary to make it change?

    This flashaholic says this..... "If I want to gamble and play the Lottery, I will go to my local convenience store or corner drugstore, and buy a lottery ticket where I can win millions of dollars. For me, buying flashlights has to be more "predictable" and less a "gamble."

  26. #26
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    Default Re: U2 with unfavorable tint - what now?

    I think the surefire support people are aware that we complain about tint. I was talking to one on the phone the other day and I asked him something about the beam on my L1. So he started talking about LED color, sounded a little nervous maybe, until I reminded him that we were talking about a RED LED, so tint was just not an issue! Guess I could have complained that the light was "not red enough - maybe a bit too pink, really" [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img], just to see what he said, but I thought that would have been kinda mean. And he didn't deserve that - the fellow I spoke to was really nice and very helpful.

  27. #27
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    Default Re: U2 with unfavorable tint - what now?

    I received my second U2 this evening. It has a slight bluish tint, much more acceptable than the greenish. Also, using a digital incident exposure meter, the bluish one registers 1/3 stop brighter than the greenish one at the brightest portion of the hot spot, which translates to about 25% more light intensity at that spot, though I know that doesn't necessarily mean that total output of the one light is greater than the other.

    Chip

  28. #28
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    Default Re: U2 with unfavorable tint - what now?

    Does you light work?
    Is it bright?

    There is nothing wrong with it.

  29. #29
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    Default Re: U2 with unfavorable tint - what now?

    Maybe Surefire should offer "CPF Edition" lights that have been hand picked for tint color so those among us that are tint "perfectionists" (or just like to whine) will be happy with ther lights. Of course these lights would cost about 25% more than the "normal" versions, and come with a free exchange policy if the tint isn't totally pleasing to the owner. Better something like that than prices being driven up because a small (yet vocal) minority is costing SF time and money by "needing" the most perfect LED tint possible. If you don't like playiong the "luxeon lottery", than stick to incans. It is as simple and easy as that.

    -Keith

  30. #30
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    Default Re: U2 with unfavorable tint - what now?

    That's actually a great way to go. It is true the vast majority of their users are not going to go whitewalling. The $270 U2 is likely to find its way into many more hands than only those on CPF, if the Aviator's history is anything to go by. And likely they simply do not care. To those who have not gone whitewalling, it IS white. A friend just got back to me saying his CMG Inf Ultra that I got him was 'really white'. To me, it has the typical blue center of all Nichia LEDs (even ArcAAA standard editions, and Photon Microlights).

    Now, a $350 CPF Special run, with GUARANTEED tint bins, that'd be a different story.

    Otherwise you pay your money and you take your chances. If you really hate to, luxlover has mentioned a dealer that seems willing to help you pick a good one - can't get any better than that!

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