Chicago Trib article on GM's fuel cell cars

Chicago Trib article on GM\'s fuel cell cars

Today's Chicago Tribune has an article on GM's work on fuel cell vehicles. Interesting stuff, at least to those who care.

It sounds like they've been working on items to make it marketable; such as improving acceleration by adding Li-ion batteries to handle peak power demands. They are claiming 40mpg (equivalent?) and a 300 mile range between refueling stops.

The article was forthcoming enough to point out that it would cost an estimated twelve billion dollars (US) to retrofit 12,000 gas stations with hydrogen fueling capability (this is how many stations are needed to handle 100 million fuel cell vehicles).

On the downside, the chairman of Exxon-Mobil Corp estimated that it would cost $200 billion to develop the oil and gas supplies this country needs by 2025. (so he's comparing the cost of fueling all of the USA with gas & oil to the cost of facilities to fuel 100 million cars with hydrogen?? Does that have any meaning?)

Mr. Borroni-Bird, program director of GM's fuel-cell concept car called Sequel, also states: "Build a better mousetrap, and they will come. If GM's EV-1 [battery-powered car that GM leased between 1996 and 2000] seated five instead of two, had a range of 300 miles rather than 100 and recharged in five minutes rather than five hours, you'd see a lot of EV-1s today and a lot of electric battery recharging stations to take care of them."

The article goes on to state:
"Because of that limited range, maximum recharging time and a low number of leases, 800 in four years, GM stopped the program in 2000 and retrieved the cars when the leases expired.

GM is using some of the cars to study how to apply the electric system to future hybrids. It donated others to museums or universities for study or disposed them as scrap."

Well!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif
I'm guessing Darrell is banging his head against the wall, seeing GM cite the old technology of the EV-1 as an example of the pinnacle of EV technology, instead of the old tech that it is.

Any thoughts?
I'm wondering why industry keeps chasing fuel cells instead of battery EV's. Is it better in some way? More potential for evolution/refinement, maybe? Or is this just a delaying tactic? Or maybe fuel cells will require more routine maintenance than battery EV's, thus ensuring continued income??

looking forward to hearing some feedback from Darrell. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


Steve K.

Re: Chicago Trib article on GM\'s fuel cell cars

50 yard penalty for baiting darell

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/whoopin.gif

Re: Chicago Trib article on GM\'s fuel cell cars

I read the article too. As soon as Big Oil has everything tied up. Patents, refueling stations etc we might begin to see more of these vehicles. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Re: Chicago Trib article on GM\'s fuel cell cars

Heck, I just miss hearing Darell's periodic updates on the state of BEV's! I'm fairly convinced that BEVs are a practical approach, as well as being a technology that doesn't need too much tweaking to be adopted by the mainstream driver. As such, I'm wondering why GM is pursuing fuel cells like this. Is it just a matter of the time required to recharge a battery?

Admittedly, one could argue that Big Oil is just using this as a way to sell their product, since the easiest way to generate hydrogen is from fossil fuels. Maybe Big Coal is in on this too?? Big Oil just ain't gonna last for more than 20 or 30 years, so we'll be relying on coal until we decide that nukes are "clean enough", or we build plenty of windmills, solar collectors, etc.

So... until Darell shows up, where would I find an explanation for this fascination with fuel cells?

Steve K.
(rode the bicycle to work today, and hoping that we don't get much freezing rain... yech!)

Re: Chicago Trib article on GM\'s fuel cell cars

Step 1: Burn 5 tons of coal to get 3 gallons of hydrogen fuel
Step 2: ???
Step 3: Profit!

Re: Chicago Trib article on GM\'s fuel cell cars

so the Underpants Gnomes have been teaching business management to GM?!! I should have known! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif

I suppose if I was generous, I'd assume that this was just an attempt at a graceful transition between fossil fuel technology, and whatever technology we end up with (horse and buggy??). Imagine what things would look like if we suddenly stopped using gas in cars, and switched to electrons.
-- Tens of thousands of gas stations would have to be converted to Starbucks or Krispy Kremes;
-- hundreds of thousands of auto mechanics could switch over to fixing PC's;
-- companies that used to sell miracle fuel additives could now sell you gold battery cable connectors!

just imagine!

Steve K.

Re: Chicago Trib article on GM\'s fuel cell cars

[ QUOTE ]
companies that used to sell miracle fuel additives could now sell you gold battery cable connectors!

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah yes, Best Buy could sell Monster Cable battery cables that cost more than your car /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Re: Chicago Trib article on GM\'s fuel cell cars

Hm. What would be the cost of outfitting gas stations with premium rapid-chargers and high-capacity electrical circuits?

I bet that it's a small fraction of the cost of H2 "pumps" and storage.

The electrical grid is everywhere, unlike the H2 infrastructure, which would have to be built from scratch.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif

Re: Chicago Trib article on GM\'s fuel cell cars

I truly don't understand the efforts being made toward fuel cell vehicles. On the bright side, the popularity of hybrids is really growing, and it seems possible that hybrid designs would evolve into BEVs over time- bringing us right back to where we should have started.

Re: Chicago Trib article on GM\'s fuel cell cars

I think darrell is right on, why waste further fossel fuels making them hydrogen, then further wasting that in an ICE or fuel cell when you can just burn the gas as is. I think they could reinvent the sterlin engine and use raw crude oil, iamgine the btus you can get out of that than gasoline.

I think the real solution to the electric can is dump charing, but no one knows nothing about that than me.

Re: Chicago Trib article on GM\'s fuel cell cars

[ QUOTE ]
Steve K said:They are claiming 40mpg (equivalent?) and a 300 mile range between refueling stops.
Steve K.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's wonderful news!!
If the industry keeps at it, and puts lots more time & money into development, someday maybe someday they'll get closer to the US 45mpg & 650 miles/tank my 9yr old VW diesel gets! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
LMAO /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Re: Chicago Trib article on GM\'s fuel cell cars

Agreed, I donated a 79 vw diesel dasher that got 49 mph, 5 door car. My dad currently owns and drives an 81 240 d mercedes that gets 43mpg, 4 door plus roomy trunk for a wheelchair and walker.