Tri-LuxIII Mag D mod ideas (non-fraen)

Ok, I'm about to finish my Fraen Mag mod (FT3 trilens). But after seeing the Barbolight and 20mmIMS x3, and others mod thier mag lights, I'm going to do the same. Hopefully this will give others ideas as well. Here are my plans for the best possible mod.

Here are some key points:
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** I'll be using a D sized Mag because I like the way I can grip it in my hands better. I like the mag's barrel switch very much too.

** I want the HS in the head so that if you twist the head it won't destroy your luxeons as if they were mounted on a HS in the body of the mag. Hopefully I can use the HS made by b2eze for this, 1/4" thick would be best but there might not be space. <font color="navy">I know C size works, but the D head might not have enough height.</font>

** I will use emitters for best thermal path to the HS. This will allow me to also place the reflectors closer to eachother vs using Stars.

** The 20mm IMS will have the legs trimmed for the correct height. This will keep it from pressing down on the luxeon. I will glue/epoxy the reflector legs to the HS. <font color="navy">Does anyone know if you cut the first "notch" off of the reflector legs it will be the right height for emitters?</font> It might be, but not totally confirmed. So take a little at a time and test like always /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

** The HS will be Artic Alumina Epoxied to the ledge of the Mag head. I will sand off the anodizing of the ledge for additional thermal transfer. I will also consider drilling 3 holes and putting in screws to firmly hold the HS down in place as the AA hardens, and to provide more robustness. This step may be over kill, but if you twist the head down too much the bulb post might break the AA free if it will bottoms out. Not sure about the bulb post and how long it is. <font color="navy">You could use screws and AA grease instead if you want to have a removable assembly incase your mag head became too scuffed for your liking, while retaining great thermal transfer.</font>

** The lens will need something to hold it tight in place. I will use the stock Mag Reflector top cut in a ring to retain the original seal for this. My design does not rely on the lens pressing down on the reflectors to prevent stress to them and the luxeons, and since the HS will not move away from the Mag head ledge there may be extra space anyways. Hopefully there will be as if something hit the lens hard and it flexed, no damage would occur to the luxeons/reflectors.
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And there you have it. My design hopefully with have excellent thermal transfer, and durability. I like soldered connections, but hopefully the bulb post method will not have much losses, allowing you to swap bodies or heads and not worrying about twisting anything.

Alternatvively, you could not use the bulb post, but solder wires to the luxeons, and out the back of the HS epoxy the wires solid so they can't yank on the luxeon leads. Then run the wires very long and coil them up into the body of the Mag after you solder them directly to the cut down switch. This would be a permanent mod that still allowed for some turning of the head incase it got in hands of other people who didn't know better.

This all depends (for the D size mag anyways) if there is enough room in the head for all of these things. Hopefully there is and some space between the lens and reflectors. If not then maybe a 1/8" thick HS would have to do. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Anyone who could let me know if the room is there please post! If not anyone who can provide measurements of these items please do as well! Thanks!!

** Mag C Head- Space from ledge to top: 27.4mm
** Mag D Head- Space from ledge to top: 19.4mm
** Mag Reflector Lip Space: 1.3mm
** IMS 20mm- Height: 18.4mm
** 1/4" HS height: 6.5mm


Lots of text, but hopefully very educational /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Will try and help you..

Dimensions Not my own measurements - mine are too imprecise, using a tape measure. C/D size is a matter of personal preference. Nothing wrong with a D /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Emitters are a good call for direct mounting. Cutting the first notch of the IMS should position the reflector exactly as you want. Cut slowly, take off a little bit, measure. That way you can get a good fit. This was my backup plan should I not be able to obtaint stars since PhotonFanatic had some excellent TX0Ks that would have fit the bill.

All the best with your mod!


(edited to link to someone with far more accurate measurements than mine)

Mag C Head- Space from ledge to top: 27.4mm
Mag D Head- Space from ledge to top: only 19mm!!!

So, not enough room for the IMS20 in the MagD head without machining. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

KevinL: Thanks, Ctechlite posted the same link too.
Icarus: I converted the inches to mm and came up with close to the same. I edited the original post with the new data.

Well it seems even with the lens pressing on the reflectors, we are about 3mm short. Unless 3mm can be gained by using emitters, but I know that won't be enough. So a thinner HS would have to be used. If you go with 1/8", then you have ~1mm to play with. Assuming the measurements aren't exact, it will probably fit flush with the mag lens or away a tad if going with emitters.

Solution #1
Well this means that for the normal modder who can't machine and only can buy parts, this won't work unless you go with 1/8" HS. This isn't adequate IMO as the emitters are too close in the center and the HS will only touch the mag head on the very outside. Being so thin a lot of heat will build up quickly.

Solution #2
I'd say the next best thing would be to make a non-removable mod using the mag body as a HS. This means you have to deal with the head twisting, but you can direct solder all connections for less losses. I will think out an improved way to keep the head from spinning without too much trouble and post.

Issac....
Got your Email and am composing a response..... How does a 1/8" copper heatsink sound.....I think copper moves heat much quicker than aluminum. Seens your best bet, considering that you are using 20mm reflectors. I like the NX05 optic and a 3/16" copper heatsink with 3 watters and have built a bunch of 3and 4 D cell mags using this. The optic is much stronger (more robust!) than the reflectors.... except the aluminum ones out there which Chop (Bless his heart!) sent me a sample of. But they are larger than the NX05 and height is very much an issue in the D cell head!

I'm was thinking of doing the same as #2 with fix HS.
No focus but throw a wall of light.

Ok, Just got done AA'ing the emitters to my other tri-mod. Using the Fraen FT3 tri-opic. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mpr.gif That was scary work. Lets just hope after I solder them and put the optic in it's right. Fraen optic has to have a HS in the body as it's too long for the head as well. C size mag won't work for the Fraen at all because of this, unless you put a 1/8" thick HS in the head, then it might fit. You got ~3.8mm for a HS. The Fraen is 24.9mm deep including what looks like the depth of a 1W star. Remember, you can't use LuxIII stars for the fraen because they won't be up far enough into the optic due to the 5w style mounting on the bare aluminum. 1W stars or emitters, 3W emitters only. If you use emitters, you might have ~5mm for the HS in a C head. 1/8" HS would probably be ok, since the surface area is bigger on the ledge in a C head. Someone could try... For a super super tight beam try the R/O LD + FT3-HNB1-LB01 (Narrow beam, LD FT3). You'd be fine with 1/8" HS for ~3W of super throwing R/O light... half the beam angle of the white.
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BACK ON TOPIC OF 3x20mm IMS ON HS IN D SIZED HEAD.
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Like I said, Solution #1 seems bad, as the path to the head is too far and the material too thin for good HS'ing for ~12w of LED heat (3amp drive). If using 1W's then it would ok. I just don't feel comfortable with it for 3W. I want coolest possible.
Anyone else strongly disagree? If so why?

Ok, after looking at my Fraen mod, I see that I could have gotten away with only 1 1/4" HS. I did over kill and bolted two together. This was more work, as I had to drill and bolt them together, AA them together, make sure they were both even, pound them into the mag with more AA before it all hardened. Was nerve racking. Not to mention this left hardly any room for holes for the wires to come though.

Looking at how the emitters are spaced on the HS in the body, they are near the edges of the sink, right by the Mag body. So the heat will rapidly transfer to the body. 1/4" in this case should be great.
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So, 3x 20mm in D flashlight, best approach (so far):

1) Single 1/4" HS AA and hammered into body. Cut and soldered switch with wires fed through HS before or after installed. You pick. I've done both, just one you end up wasting wire you cut off.
2) Drill a decent sized hole in middle, say 1/4". (EL's HS's have a small hole pre-drilled on the back, so centering would be easy.) Give enough size so you can re-arange the wires easily.
3) Emitters Spaced apart towards edge of HS. (fraen as a template will work, and leave space around 20mm to boot). Stars won't fit.
4) Solder up wires, & test light. Trim reflectors to be at correct height for emitters (leave legs on, but trim down)
5) Screw on head all the way. Put in reflectors, lens and bezel. Should fit with ~4mm of space left over. If so, then:
6) Take apart. Put AA or normal epoxy & thermal grease over the threads of the body. Might want to clean the threads of all oil for the epoxy to stick well, and put some silicone on the oring as this will be the last time you'll see it. AA might not be strong enough, if so go with epoxy/thermal addtive. Screw the head all the way down and let cure.
7) Put epoxy daubs on the reflector legs, and put the reflectors in, making sure they are level. Let harden.
8) Take stock mag reflector, and hack saw or grind/remel around the lip of it. That's all you'll need. You could leaave extra materail if it will fit exposed and put glow powder on it so you'd have a glowing ring. You could also dust the inside of the light too. The glowing reflector could always be swaped for one that didn't glow though.
9) Drop in refelector rim ring, lens, oring and bezel and tighten down. YOU'RE DONE!!!

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This way I see as the easiest & most durable and protected way of putting 3x 20mm in a Mag D. If you want something you can take out and put in other mags, KevinL's C style design is the best then. You could always put 3 set screws like Flash.... did but that's harder to do and more risk of damaging something with a drill. You could get to the led's easier that way though. It's possible to yank back off the 20mm with my way if you use a plastic glue that won't hold too strong to the aluminum for them and then re-AA an emitter and solder. The soldering part would be the hardest.

Hopefully this will help out anyone wanting to do this mod in a D cell without maching anything.

Oh, can anyone tell me how tall a 20mm IMS is with it's full legs on? Thanks!

I know you said non fraen, but I do not have spec for heights of anything else when I made this up. I used emachineshop software because I have no CAD of my own.


heatsink top



heatsink bottom
I had said in another thread about a heatsink idea that was basically hotlips/osink with a disc glued to the top of it with the space of the hlips filled in. I think I was unclear of my thoughts.

What I think I should have said was a tube, OD same as ID of mag body, maybe 20mm long, then have approx 48mm disc sitting on top of that. So assembly into the host would occur after head was screwed on. Just screw head down and drop in the heatsink.

Height of the 48mm dia portion can be changed to suit your optic/reflector needs. If you want the file I can email it to you. My file host will only allow pics.

Also note I placed spots for 4 emitters, that is because I had used dimensions for fraen LP optics, and saw that 4 would fit within 48mm. Also this is for a C head, I have one for a D head too.

Sorry for the width, I do not have a program to crop the screenshots I took.

b2eze: I had not thought of copper. Now just when I thought I had it all figured out! I'll think about it some.. Hmm.

ensig: you'll be using 20mm reflectors or nothing at all?

Ctechlite: I get what your're doing. It would work for D sized head and 20mm IMS only if it stuck in the body tube for heat transfer, and the top portion was 1/8" thick or less. The head would still turn, but if you attached the reflectors to the HS then all should be ok. The head would rotate around the whole assembly. You're way you could slide out the HS and detach the wires from the switch or use wires soldered into a broken bulb base.

Basicaly a lot of work but you can swap mag bodies at any time.

This is making my brain spin.

How about a modular design. 48mm dia disc's in varying thickness to suit optics/reflector heights. A "base" that had OD same as ID of host (C or D). A hole thru middle of both for wires to pass thru. Connect them either by thermal epoxy, or some grease and a mechanical fastner (screw/bolt). I might go so far as to polish the mating surfaces, like you do when putting a heatsink on a CPU if you are expecting high heat output from CPU (ie overclocking). I did this once just to see if it made a difference in my non overclocked comp.

I wonder if there is alluminum stock that is 48mm dia, and also some stock that has OD same as ID of C and D cells I do not remember them off hand... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif If so it would be a matter of cutting. Could maybe use a power mitre saw with the appropriate blade.


Anyway just some thoughts I had while having a snack. I think this may keep me up for a bit... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

The heat sink I got is similar to your but it's totally solid.
As for the head I dunno whether I'll go with IMS20mm or Tri-Lens Fraen (VTOL-F3NL).
But the host will be a Mag1D though /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
20 minute of runtime is enough to stun most people

[ QUOTE ]
IsaacHayes said:
...Oh, can anyone tell me how tall a 20mm IMS is with it's full legs on? Thanks!

[/ QUOTE ]

Height of the IMS20 with full legs is 18mm. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

The MicroFAQ in my sig has pointers to engineering diagrams of the IMS, contributed a kind CPFer - let me get them for you:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=LED&Number=582086

PS: Issac, I forgot to mention that b2eze also offers a choice of materials, so you can really have it done the way you like it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Yes, you're correct, there is some slack space behind my sink and the ledge, I shimmed it with aluminium foil rolled tight and pounded till it doesn't give any more.


ctechlite: that was my original plan, to get someone with a 48mm rod and chop it to just the correct height.

Ctechlite: I know, I'm fried today from all of this. I gotta take a break today!

ensig: Powered by 3AA NiMH? I'd go for the 20mm IMS. Fraen is nice too, but from what I've seen people prefer the brighter hotspot and wide sidespill of the 20mm. Soon I'll have both to compare if I ever get it figured out!

icarus: Thanks! I'll update my original post!

KevinL: I'll take a look at it. Have you considred using AA epoxy for a more direct contact for thermal path? But that would move you reflectors away from the lens..