PILA 150S safe in M3 w/ 225 Lumen bulb?

hi all,

i have a Surefire M3 that i am using on duty right now. i am using the 125 Lumen bulb right now. i am also using PILA 150S batteries (bought from JS Burly's...thanks Jon!) in the M3.

is it safe to use the 225 Lumen bulb with the PILA 150S batteries in my M3? will i damage the batteries or the light?

also, can i use the PILA 150S batteries with a Surefire L6?

any help and advise would be appreciated, thanks!

Jon

Yes on the L6.

I haven't tried the HOLA in the M3 with Pilas, but I think it would be OK.

riscfaktor is using the HOLA with Pila 150s in this thread

This is the configuration that I have been using for the past year. It works great.

thanks guys! putting in the 225 lumen bulb right now... love the 'guilt free' lumens...hehe

Jon

ok... changed the bulb out to the HOLA for the M3. i am having a problem though. i'll try and explain it the best i can.

- no problems with using regular batteries in the M3 regular bulb or w/ HOLA.
- no problems with regular bulb, spring, and 150S... although i have to have the spring just right to function 100%.
- problem when i use the HOLA, spring, and 150S. i am not able to have 100% function when using this set up. here's what i have to do to get the light to function. i have to hit the tailcap (stock, non-clickie) twice quickly to get the light to come on. this usually works, but not all the time. when i turn the tailcap down for constant on, it doesn't work unless i have tapped twice quickly on the tailcap and turn the cap down...light has to come on first though.

am i doing something wrong?

does the lower voltage of the PILAs need time to warm up to function with the HOLA (225 lumen) lamp?

could it be the HOLA lamp or tailcap assembly?

has anyone else had this problem?

Jon

Jon, I have the same problem with my M3 and the MN11 HOLA.. unreliable with both the stock tailcap and my SW02. Works 100% with the MN10 LOLA and either tailcap. I have switched to just 3x CR123s for now /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Sorry you guys are having problems. Mine has been working perfectly for a year with the HOLA and pila's. Hope you get it working.

Gentlemen!

I had the same problem with my M3T:
The LOLA wouldn't always turn on, and the HOLA didn't work at all.

JonSidneyB has springs which mount to the back of the lamps and fixed my problem.
The lamps and switches work perfectly now, and work with 3x123 as well.

Contact JonSidneyB about Pila Lamp Springs.

hmm... i guess it's kinda good i'm not alone. not really though. i've been playing around with the M3 with the HOLA and if i press twice quickly on the tailcap, it comes on very consistantly. the thing is, i shouldn't have to do that. i really like the light output of the HOLA, but for duty, i think i'm going to be sticking witht he regular MN10 lamp. i have a L6 on the way, an i'm going to swap the tailcap and see if that makes a difference.

thanks to all who responded! if u have a solution or even a possible reason as to why the M3 doesn't perform with PILA 150S and the MN11 HOLA lamp (with PILA springs installed in the M3), please let me know!

the only thing i can think of is that the circuitry in the batteries r preventing the M3 to operate normally with the MN11 lamp. i'm am an absolute novice, but would this make sense?

Jon

I didn't see that you had the Pila springs intalled, sorry.

For me, it was, pardon the pun, night and day.
Two Pila 150s cells:
C3, 105 Lumen, worked 90% of the time.
C3, 200 Lumen, worked 10% of the time.
M3T, LOLA, didn't work at all.
M3T, HOLA, didn't work at all.

With the Pila spring, all worked 100%.

Do you have a different lamp to test?
Maybe stretch all the springs a little?

I could see normal manufacturing variation producing lamps with different voltage appetites, much like LEDs.

I am wondering if you have placed both lamps side by side to see if there is a difference in the springs on the two lamps without the Pila spring also will a paper clip or small ball of foil light it up if that works then it sounds like the tailcap.
Topper /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif

Topper,

tried the foil and i placed it on the battery and the side of the tube... lit up. had the foil against the battery and the inside of the tailcap and nothing. funny thing is, it works ifi give two quick taps on the tailcap, and works with the MN10 lamp with no problems... weird. do i have a faulty tailcap?

i will get another MN11 lamp soon to try it out.

there doesn't seem to be much difference at all between the two lamps... spring height. i've tried lengthening the spring, but no joy... still needs the two pushes on the tailcap to work. after the two hits on the tailcap, if u let go and turn on the lamp within 3 seconds, i only need to push once to turn on the light again... but leave it for too long, 5 seconds or over, and it's back to 2 taps.

Mikjk,

JimH, myself, & others have seen this same problem when using the WA 1185 (another High-Output) lamp w/ Pilas. JimH speculated (& I tend to concur) that it may have something to do with the Pila internal protection circuitry. It takes the first burst to pre-warm the lamp and reduce its resistance, and then the second burst turns it on successfully. When starting from cold, I now just hold my switch for a second and then release & click to turn it on, & that seems to work pretty-much all the time. Probably not the greatest thing for long-life of either the bulb or the Pilas, but that appears to be the best present solution.

--kirk

Glow Worm,

that's kind of what i'm thinking too. something i will have to live with i guess.

do u think the batteries will suffer badly due to this situation?

is the MN11 bulb being under driven then? it doesn't appear so because the light is very bright and seems consistant with the output of the 3 123 3V batteries. (don't have measuring equipment, just eyeballing it.)

thanks again

Jon

AFAIK, no one really knows about the potential damage to Pila cells from Hi-Amp draws. We're all kinda virgins in this regard, w/ little previous info available.

For me, I'm willing to sacrifice 3 x Pila 168 against a WA 1185 to see what happens. I think the bulb & batts can handle it, but that's just my personal opinion, & w/ no refs. If it looks bright & doesn't explode, I figure it *might* be working OK.

thanks Glow Worm. i'm going to keep fiddling with this combination. i will wait for the L6 to come in and switch the tailcaps and see if that makes a difference. i don't think it is the tailcap as the PILA 150S work with the MN10 bulb with no problems.

Jon

I just received my Pila 150S from Jon, and installed them in my M3T. I also used a Z58 tailcap from my L5 and I noticed the following, with the below combinations:

1. 150S/MN10/extra spring/"twisty tail cap" - No anomolies.
2. 150S/MN10/extra spring/Z58 "clickie" - No anomolies.
3. 150S/MN11/extra spring/"twisty tail cap" - "double tap" to turn on light.
4. 150S/MN11/extra spring/Z58 "clickie" - "double tap" to turn on light.

The "double tap" doesn't bother me too much, especially using the Z58 "clickie" since constant on is just a push away. The stock "twisty" tailcap is much harder to use if you want constant on, since you have to hold the button while roating the tail cap. Good excuse for me to get a "clickie" tailcap for my M3T.

This is my favorite combination for high output from the lightest and smallest light.

UBH II + 2x150S + E2C + C bezel + P91 + Z57

MODEL..................LGTH.....BEZEL DIA.....BOD DIA..........WT…..LUMENS/CP

UBH/P91……….....…..6 ½ "……….1 ¼"…......…….13/16"……..….5.3oz………...200 L.

I prefer the UBH II to the BE3 (Balrog) because it is slightly shorter and the body color closely matches the Speck E2C (original model) and the Z57 (or Z52). This light is so small and light that I have belt carried it for weeks without being aware of its presence. For longer P91 runtime I use 2x168S in a BE4 but it is a bit long for EDC.

Fivemega has created an ingenious Pila solution for major upgrades to the Stinger and Stinger HP. These should enjoy wide popularity since they are so superior to the originals

FIVEMEGA PILA UPGRADES FOR STINGERS


Brightnorm

just an update...

received a "clickie" tailcap, Z58 i believe, and installed it. i still have to do double taps to get the light to come on. the only good thing is that the tailcap is easier to use due to the fact the cap is easier to depress and when i want constant on, i just have to push it down. real big thumbs up to the Z58 tail cap! i'll be trying the M3 with the HOLA when i go back to the street... i'll use it mainly for traffic stops.

looks like the M3 with the HOLA lamp and PILA 150s batteries will have this little quirk of having to double tap.

as a side note, i received the Z58 and a new bezel for my 6Z from SUREFIREPARTS... hope no one is offended if i give a plug for John here. great service!

Jon

The problem with using the Pilas in the M3 is that the Pilas are a tad bit bigger in diameter than standard 123s. What happens is that the negative contact spring gets pushed up away from its contact point in the body by the battery. When you bump the light, the bump causes the battery to slip into the spring and the spring then expands and makes contact with the body to close the connection.

The best fix is to contact your Pila dealer and get them to send you the spring that is used on the Pila LAs to adapt them to surefire lights. You just twist the Pila spring around the spring on the Surefire LA and all should work fine.