Lamina arrays ?

have a look at these Lamina
they just cut the prices by more than half on the white models which makes them quite interesting.
has anyone tried these? if so are they any good?

Im getting very interested in them but i guess optics could be a problem

Link no good.

Lamina arrays aren't popular in flashlights. I'll hazard a few guesses why:

They're expensive. Last I checked it was ~$150 for the BL-3000, aand the BL-2000 was selling for more than premium Luxeon IIIs.

They're inefficient relative to most other LEDs in their output class (check out the lumens per watt in the LED DB link in my signature).

They're arrays, so it's tough to focus the light into a coherent beam.

The above gores for white. I've not compared the specs on color arrays with colored LEDs.

I have a couple of early samples..red and green. They are not focusable..the are an amazing wash of color. They are amazingly bright. I'm running the red from 3 AAA batteries, and it will easily light up a room enough to see around in the dark. I was thinking about using the green one in a little kid's light I found that uses a little holder for 3 AAA's and just mounting the array in the reflector.

[ QUOTE ]
idleprocess said:
Lamina arrays aren't popular in flashlights. I'll hazard a few guesses why:

They're expensive. Last I checked it was ~$150 for the BL-3000, aand the BL-2000 was selling for more than premium Luxeon IIIs.

They're inefficient relative to most other LEDs in their output class (check out the lumens per watt in the LED DB link in my signature).

They're arrays, so it's tough to focus the light into a coherent beam.

The above gores for white. I've not compared the specs on color arrays with colored LEDs.

[/ QUOTE ]

About 81.00 for the BL-3000 White Lamina

The other colors run from 50.00 to 91.00

The medium sized BL2000 are in the 29-32.00 range.

[ QUOTE ]
idleprocess said:
Lamina arrays aren't popular in flashlights. I'll hazard a few guesses why:

They're expensive. Last I checked it was ~$150 for the BL-3000, aand the BL-2000 was selling for more than premium Luxeon IIIs.

They're inefficient relative to most other LEDs in their output class (check out the lumens per watt in the LED DB link in my signature).

They're arrays, so it's tough to focus the light into a coherent beam.

The above gores for white. I've not compared the specs on color arrays with colored LEDs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your database should drop the price and the Lm/W price on the Lamina part, it is only 81.00 and I have to question a number of your Lm/$, this being one of them. This puts the part at 7 Lumens for every dollar, which beats all but one the LumiLEDs Luxeon parts you have listed. Except the one U bin that you have listed, which is like trying to have a snow storm in hell, as far as purchasing one. Since the parts are not sold by Future, their distributor, by bin, breaking these out like this is somewhat bogus. Minimum Flux output for the LXHL-LW3C is 60 lumens, but you should derate each of these for the die temperature rise, which is also on the charts. Either that, or up-rate the other vendors parts, or point out the falacy of their lumen rating as unrealisitic, since you'd have to run the LXHL-LW3C at -43 Celcius to get those numbers on the 1000mA part, as LumiLEDs Lumens are rated with a internal LED die temperature of 25C and the thermal resistance is 17C/W, with roughly 4W input.

Your LED database shows it's age in other areas, for example, one being the CREE XL7090.

Also not taken in consideration, LumiLEDs rates all their lumens at a Tj (junction temperature of the die inside) at 25C. At least a couple of the others do not.

As far as some of your bogus Vf comments, I've seen the CREEs run from 3.321 to 4V. Luxeon's have a similar situation, but it isn't called bogus.

You will also notice on the CREE datasheet, that the part is now 50 lumen average, and 39.8-51.7 M bin is what ETGTech has stock on for sampling. There are other parts available for purchase at reel quantities... This is with only 350mA input...

http://www.cree.com/Products/Lighting/downloads/DS-7090.pdf

If you take a look at the white overview datasheet:
http://www.cree.com/Products/Lighting/downloads/OV-7090.pdf

You'll notice they list 60 lumens.

Another point is that pricing has been available on the CREE for some time now, and you don't have it on your database.


It is a awesome rough start, thanks for doing all that work, but to be serious about things folks will need to take quite a number of things into consideration, and realize the LED market pricing is really heating up alot, especially in high power parts and white.

Please discount my comments about Lamina save for the part about being difficult to focus. I might even be off about that as well since I hear frenel optics are doing amazing things.

For some reason, I had the latest version of that spreadsheet uploaded, but didn't rename it.

Fixed.

I use the term "bogus" for quite a few things. Usually it means I filled in the blank for lack of a datasheet number (in the case of Cree 7090 at the time), or in the case of some of the "optical wonders" from Roithner, it indicates skepticism about the numbers given.

Pricing is the least accurate data in there as I've never tried to keep that information current.

Spreadsheet source is here:
.XLS
.SXC

i just ordered BL-2000 white from mouser for 18.15$ i guess that's not bad for a 108 lumen 4Watt package. i can only see a couple of small problems for use in flashlights:
1. focusing the beam, but i guess thats not such a big problem anyway since emitter area is only slightly bigger than the luxeons.
2. they require roughly 11.3V which rules out ultra compact flashlights. i guess it would run nicely on 3xrechargable 123's with a good runtime too.

as a bonus there is no maximum Vin stated on the spec. sheets so i think if kept cool Vin could be increased to much higher levels. dunno about efficiency at higher levels though

any comments ?

I put a BL-3000 in my Thor and put a pic in this thread in the "SpotLight" forum

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=838697&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

I am very interested to see how it works out - please keep us posted.

I am not a regular user of the recharge type 123s, mostly because the capacity tends to be rather low, but maybe this would work fine. If you use regular 123s, and start drawing in the 700ma + range, you will need 4x123 and perhaps a small resistor. The data sheets on those cells at least show a pretty rapid drop to 2.2 - 2.4 V at the higher current draws.

I have seen those arrays at trade shows - They are really bright - almost painfully.

well it's actually rated 11.3V 350mA 108Lumans so 3x123's should be good for that. But it's not a bad idea to drive it at higher levels with 4x123's, of course on a chunky heatsink. ill try that, just to see what happens /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

JohnGault have you got any beam shots for the BL-3000 Thor, it would be really nice to see what it's capable of doing