Surefire KL3 Physical Dimensions

I not asking for the dimensions. I have a general idea.

Given the large size and the cooling fins, is this product practical to carry or will it see mantlepiece or bookshelf duty?

A friend is sending me one mounted on a M3 and wants me to evalaute it. I don't have the time. Owners please lend a hand and chime in.

I don't pull any punches when I review. My first impression is that this is way too big to EDC. What does this product provide that a ARC LS and spare AAs don't?

I just picked up a KL3 for my 6P today and like it so far. I usually wear cargo pants, so it just goes in one of the leg pockets. If you're going to wear jeans, then yes, it will be too big to carry, IMO.

Originally posted by .:
My first impression is that this is way too big to EDC. What does this product provide that a ARC LS and spare AAs don't?

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">KT, I have no argument about KL3's size. When you compare it with Arc LS, reliability is the difference. I will shut myself up if you asked "What does this product provide that a KL1 and spare 123s don't?"

Don't get me wrong, I love ArcLS's AA capability and its *look* too.

Alan

"When you compare it with Arc LS, reliability is the difference."
Alan, discounting any reference to "looks," are you saying that the KL3 is more reliable than the ARC LS in your statement above? Please clarify.
Thanks.
KT

The Poster Formerly Known as Kogatana:

Are you sure it`s a KL3 you`re being sent? the KL3 doesn`t fit on the M3, that`s the KL2 which looks quite manageable- not that much larger than the M3`s stock bezel.

I have to agree about the KL3 though, it does look like it`s far too big for daily use. Far bigger than necessary, even.

I keep looking at my 9Z stood over there by the M3 and wondering why on earth they don`t go back to those simple, sleek, functional yet attractive designs that they used to have? OK so the M3 has an appeal all of its own, and maybe the flattened body, cooling fins (and hexagonal bezel even) have some degree of functionality, but some of their designs seem to be a little over the top, extra bits for the sake of extra bits.....and I`ve never warmed to those silly hexagonal bits. They should go. Who routinely leaves their lights lying on their side? I store all mine bezel down, so the pointy edges aren`t worth it.

Just my opinion of course. And sorry for the momentary drift off-topic...

Brightnorm:

Lamda is now making direct drive 3AA LGI's.

Lambda announced that he had one batch of LH2 LS's with forward voltages between 3.0x and 3.2x. I was the only person who ordered a direct drive LSI out of that batch. Lambda measured the brightness of this LSI at 420 Lux at One meter on Lithiums. Mr. Bulk measured the brightness of my LGI's at one meter on alkalines at 500 Lux and 520 Lux, respectively (His recent production is int the 600+ range). Dat2Zip's published graphs suggest that the typical BadBoy 500 puts out 275 Lux at one meter.

I think Lambda would be happy to make an LSI for you. I don't know whether or not he can get his hands on more LH2 Luxeons.

I haven't done a run time test on the LSI. Without a light meter, I'm not sure how meaningful my test would be. I expect that it will initially drain a lithium considerably faster than a Reactor. The brightness decay curve of the LH2 LSI should be steeper than that of a Reactor for most of the useage period. I'm guessing that very useable light should be available for 10 to 14 hours rather than the 25 hours with the Reactor.

I have a brass "E3" adapter on order from Doug Speck. I'll try it with a KL1 with 2 NiMH 2700 mAh A Nimhs that should run for 4 to 5 hours. I'll also try the 3 lithiums as you mention.

Dat2Zip expects to list mcGizmo's SF standard 6P/9P bezel to E series body adapter as of tonight. I'll order one, and then....

I'll also try it with my KL3 with 3 lithiums. Finally, I'll try it with my 3" Turbohead and a N2. Maybe a P90 will seem more pocketable in this adapter.

You seem to assume that the KL1 will be brighter on 3 @ CR123's than on 2 @ 123's as are KL3's (19.5 Lu vs. 19.0 Lu.). This is a reasonable hypothesis which may or may not pan out. I intend to test this theory as well.

I just received e-mail about the mystery combo. It is a KL3 mounted on a C3.

Chris and Brightnorm, thanks for the input.

Originally posted by .:
"When you compare it with Arc LS, reliability is the difference."
Alan, discounting any reference to "looks," are you saying that the KL3 is more reliable than the ARC LS in your statement above? Please clarify.
Thanks.
KT

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">ArcLS still has many design problems to resolve. The problem has nothing to do with quality control.

1) Like Tec40, you have to take very good care when you turn on the light by twisting the head, or else, you might end up with damage battery. The situation get worse if rechargeables AA are being used due to long term repeated action on the same set (spare set) of batteries. Yes, I take care of all my tools but not such high level of extra care. Isn't it embarassing to tell people don't twist too hard on the bezel whenever someone want to see the good looking ArcLS:-(
2) Twisting too hard on one direction will get the batteries dent, but twisting too fast on the other direction will *almost* get the bezel off. Amazing, isn't it?
3) Flex problem has yet to solve. You simply don't know when it will happen again.
4) No protective lens for the optics until the latest version. I understand that scrapped optics won't affect light quality that much but when I could have one with pyrex lens why should I have one without any protective lens at all. The reason behind why no protective lens to be used was absolutely amazing.

Is it that bad? Not really .... if ....

If I need AA capability, I turn to my Illuminator that are more reliable. Please don't consider this is as rant on Arc product, I love Arc AAA very much that I have 6 of them (2 in LE) and will keep on buying.

Alan

Thanks, Alan.
I didn't realize that there were so many issues with the ARC LS. I obviousy have not kept up with my reading.
I have not encountered any problems with my ARC LS during the numerous occassions in which I've used it.
KT

Originally posted by Alan:
........Please don't consider this is as rant on Arc product, I love Arc AAA very much that I have 6 of them (2 in LE) and will keep on buying. Alan[/QB]

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Alan,

An honest opinion civilly expressed is never a rant.

I can only report my experiences with the nine SLS's that I have. They are all "white" but of various hues and intensities. I have one 500ma which is a remarkable but hot-burning light.

I must have twisted these lights (especially the one I EDC) on and off literally hundreds of times with no problems. Since I have so many I'm able to mix and match best AA and 123 battery holders to heads for ideal combinations of smoothness and adequate thread length. Thorough silicone lubing helps a lot.

I have had only one problem, which is my own fault. I did a "waterproof" test with one in a 123 configuration. I turned it one and bottomed it in a 1 foot deep sink. It stayed on for almost an hour and then quit completely. I gave it time to dry and it began to work but would shine bright for a few seconds then drop abruptly to a moon mode-type glow.

I tried opening the bezel with two pliers, applying stovetop heat (I know, I know) to soften the adhesive, to no avail and I was afraid to overdo it. Surprisingly, after the heat treatment when I turned on the light it stayed on for several minutes before lapsing back to its previous pattern. I finally gave up.

One down and eight to go. It's a great product that can be made even better.

Brightnorm

Norm - thanks for pointing out the M2 thread diameter. I was aware of this before, but know a lot of folks aren`t. I didn`t mention it because, er, I forgot. KL3 will fit the M2, whereas KL2 fits the M3. Why they named them like that, will remain forever a mystery - it causes more confusion than it`s worth.

C3 - now it all makes sense.

I think I should go back to just mainly lurking and leave the conversation to people who won`t confuse the pants off themselves, and liklely everyone else too!

It`s been a long day, I`m tired, I`m up to my neck in christmas lights....

Originally posted by lemlux:
.......My 2 direct drive 3AA LGI's are epoxied together as Siamese twins and live on a table at home for use during walks at night. I personally find the 3AA length of the LGI much more of a deterrent for pocket carry than I do the head of the KL3.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How did you epoxy them, by removing the rubber/plastic covering ? but even then wouldn't the larger heads get in the way, unless you used ome sort of stand-off. Do you use them alternately for long burn or together for super brightness?

Brightnorm

Hello ".",

ASPI Tactical __had__ a sale that included 9Ps for $40 each so I thought I'd get them as a base for a wide variety of mods--stuff I wouldn't spend full price on.

One of the mods was a 2.5 inch SRTH Turbo head, one was the P91 HOLA, and the KL3. See the incandescent stuff here.

I have handy an Arc sLS, a Lambda Illuminator, a Streamlight 3C, and the KL3.

The PEAK candela measurements (foot candles measured at 2 feet and converted to candela) are as follows. The "bar" of the batteries refers to five out of seven on the Radio Shack digital tester. I'm fed up testing lights with brand new batteries that only hold their brand-new brightness for a few minutes.

KL3 380 cd

Lambda Illuminator with 5/7 bar AA batteries: 180 cd

Arc sLS with 5/7 bar 123 battery __AND_ WriteRight applied: 160 cd

Streamlight 3C LED (10 LEDs) 6/7 bar batteries: 130 cd

The SL has the broadest throw.

The KL3 is broader than the Lambda Illuminator and similar to the Arc sLS w/ WriteRight.

I don't think any of the 9Ps are EDC for me. They might be if you wear them on your belt. I have the Arc sLS and an Arc AAA LE on my keychain in my right pocket. I keep the E2e in my left pocket.

I use the sLS far more than any other light of the EDC trio. The E2e is called into service when looking around rooms. The sLS is used when looking around equipment or looking for things. The LE is used at night when I don't want something too bright.

I think it's important to use the KL3 on a 3-cell light. That's what makes it brighter than the KL1. BTW, the KL1 makes the E2e just a hair too long for my pocket and it's not that much brighter than the sLS.

Another wonderful thing of the KL3 is its constant 7-hour light output. I don't even think the 3C SL would go that long--I should measure it.

None of the 9P based lights are EDC in my book, but they are a wonderful trio of problem solvers when you need light.

I used the SL 3C when my kids and I went out trick or treating. The KL3 seems a much better walking light because of the longer throw, although the coverage area near in is a bit smaller.

I think the KL3 is a great walking at night light. I think the complement is the SRTH with N2, not the P90 or P91.

The 9P with KL3 is about 3/4 of an inch longer than the 2-cell Lambda Illuminator...and about 2x the diameter. It slips into a pants pocket reasonably well for walking, but not for sitting.

Cheers,

Richard

Chris, I am not certain what the KL3 will be attached to when it arrives. I read the e-mail again and it indicates M3. It is likely a typo. The young man sending this mystery combo is also sending the M2 with the turbo head, chunky switch, and a custom lanyard.
Thanks.
KT

My LGI's are marginally brighter than my KL3 which is noticeably brighter than my KL1 which is noticeably brighter than my 500 mA ARC LSS Hybrid which is brighter than my low forward voltage Lambda Safety Illuminator (Legend 2AA) on 2 AA lithiums which is noticeably brighter than my 500 mA BadBoy in a MiniMag which is marginally brighter than my 416 mA BadBoy in a Legend 2AA.

My KL1 on my E2 finds its way into my pocket most often. The ARC LS is next most often carried, but has the shortest run time of the lot and only likes NiMHs and Lithiums. The KL3 is in my briefcase on a 6P and feels nice when being used. It only goes into baggy pockets at night when moved from my briefcase.

The Bad Boys will be Christmas presents to family members because they work nicely on AA alkalines or NiMHs.

The direct drive 2AA Safety Illuminator is the clear choice when I'll be away from home for a long time and don't have ready access to batteries.

My 2 direct drive 3AA LGI's are epoxied together as Siamese twins and live on a table at home for use during walks at night. I personally find the 3AA length of the LGI much more of a deterrent for pocket carry than I do the head of the KL3.

Originally posted by lemlux:
....low forward voltage Lambda Safety Illuminator (Legend 2AA) on 2 AA lithiums which is noticeably brighter than........

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Lemlux,

How much bright run time do you get from the LSI? I don't recall whether the LSI is regulated. How much bright runtime do you get from it? Do you know if Lamba is still making them, specifically in the low forward voltage version that you requested (for greater efficiency?).

Also, did you see my post about Doug Speck's "E3" + KL1 which I hope to have soon? I feel that it might be a viable replacement for the D3+KL3; nearly as bright but much smaller and lighter, and with similar run time.

Brightnorm

Originally posted by Chris M.:
The Poster Formerly Known as Kogatana:

Are you sure it`s a KL3 you`re being sent? the KL3 doesn`t fit on the M3, that`s the KL2 which looks quite manageable- not that much larger than the M3`s stock bezel.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Chris and KT,

This is a common misconception about the M2. Because its external diameter is so great, it's easy to assume that its thread diameter is larger than the "standard" size SF lights. Not true.

THE M2 THREAD DIAMETER IS IDENTICAL TO THE 6P'S AND ALL "STANDARD SIZE" SF LIGHTS.

This is why the KL3 will fit both the 6/9P as well as the M2. Please pardon the caps, but this is such a common misconception that I thought it was worth shouting for a moment.

Brightnorm

Originally posted by lemlux:
Brightnorm:

Lamda is now making direct drive 3AA LGI's......

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Lemlux,

I forgot to thank you for that information, so....
Thanks!

BN

Originally posted by rlhess:
Hello ".",

ASPI Tactical __had__ a sale that included 9Ps for $40 each so I thought I'd get them as a base for a wide variety of mods--stuff I wouldn't spend full price on.....Cheers,
Richard

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Richard,

Interesting post and unbelieveable price on those 9P's, especially if they were new! Aspi couldn't have made much or any profit on them. Do they often have sales like that? I've never shopped there.

Brightnorm

Originally posted by rlhess:
......I don't think any of the 9Ps are EDC for me. They might be if you wear them on your belt....Richard

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Richard,

I forgot to add that I belt EDC'd a 9P/P91 for about two weeks to see how practical it was and it turned out to be surprisingly comfortable.

I agree that the 9P/KL3 is a great walking light, but I also have great hopes for the KL1 on Doug Speck's "E3". You could also use the upcoming adapter to put a KL3 on the "E3" if you don't mind the tail wagging the dog.

Brightnorm