The Future of the Tiger11 and Tiger85

Please read the first post in The Next Generation of TigerLight Upgrades for more details, but the short of it is this:

It is my considered opinion, in light of greater field experience and new information, that the Tiger11 and Tiger85 are too overdriven and are not reliable lights. This situation is especially significant for LEO, S&R, and Military personell. The Tiger85 is especially touchy hot off the charger, and the Tiger11, while not as touchy, still has a very short lamp life, on the order of 6 hours or so.

This situation is unacceptable on several levels, yet on the other hand, I know that there are many (including me) who are not using these configurations in critical situations and who are not concerned with short lamp life. Also, on the other end of the situation, I am very hopeful about two new TigerLight mods which will correct these flaws, and would like to concentrate as much as possible on these 2nd generation TigerLight Upgrades.

So, with all of that in mind, would you please take a second to vote in the following poll and feel free to comment in the body of the thread:

OK. I've got to say guys, that I am terribly under-whelmed here. 10 votes and no posts in 24 hours?!?

I'll certainly let this at least go through the weekend to pick up all of those people who don't vist CPF on a daily basis, but if this trend continues, I won't be in any hurry to do anything related to the TigerLight. I've got plenty of work to do on the M6-R and USL projects, and if there really isn't any interest in the TL mods, so be it.

I love the Tiger mods but the USL is probably a higher interest level (for me) at the moment.

I tend to agree with your thinking. I am searching for a a new duty light and the Tigerlight fbop looks good. I need a reliable light. It does not necessarily need superlong run times but it needs to turn on every time.I have bought two tigerlights for around the farm usage but still would like more throw for a duty light.

If what you want is more throw and more light than the FBOP then the MagCharger60 is a good option.

If you don't like the beam artifacts from a smooth reflector, a custom fit Carley orange peel reflector can be made to ride in the plastic reflector carrier of the MagCharger and you can have the best of both worlds.

The MagCharger IS longer than the Tiger, but is still a great light that takes a beating and has all the charging options.

Bill

Yes the USL & Polaris are brighter.
But the Tiger setup is a tight rechargeable package which make it appealing.
I'm still waiting for the Tiger85 upgrade.

I'm amazed every time I compare my Tiger11 to other mods lights etc. It is perfect. The center spot is blazing white hot and tight. Tons of spill, which floods a big area. It is an extremely usable light. More runtime and reliable bulb would be a nice improvement even though I've never had one go out on me yet.

Jim, I just got your 1174 bulb recently and it is fantastic as well. We had bayarea Flashaholic Get-together last weekend it measured 330 Lumens on Gadget_Lovers Lumen estimator. The Tiger11 measured over 600!!!

Bill I have a mag charger and several 1160 bulbs. It sits in my patrol car because it is too long to carry on my person. In the day it was THE flashlight to carry. After several years of walking foot beats in the big city it got retired as soon as the stingers came out. The stinger or FBOP will stay on my gunbelt. Besides the length the magcharger is just plain heavy. My duty belt already has a 45 with m6 mounted, pepper spray, taser,stinger,radio, cuffs, 36 extra rounds of 45, it gets heavy. One day some one will have to wake up and realize we need load bearing vests or something simular.

Hello Jim,

I love to play with high power lights. I get a big smile every time I turn one on.

However, it really bums me out when the lamp blows.

I would like to see you move on to reliability... and really bright. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Tom

Jim,

As you know I opted for the Carley RF1940-OP / WA01274 LA option instead of either the Tiger 11 or 85. What you've cited at the beginning of this thread validates the concerns I had when I made my choice. No question about the output of the 11 or 85 compared to the WA01274, but for my uses I wanted longevity and run time. The next generation you've been discussing with improved batteries and chargers will address my run time and convenience reservations. I await further word on the LAs. Obviously I expect some trade offs but a 6 hour bulb life is not one I want to make no matter how bright the output and range of the throw.

I remain exceptionally pleased with the 1274 mod and would definately considering upgrading another notch or two depending on what the final outcomes are for the second generation mods.

I trust my honest comments are useful here.

All the best!

--Bob

i say go to the Gen2 mods

Shane

Jim, it would probably depend on market demand and target market as well. I am not a life-or-death user, but from certain lights of mine I demand reliability. When the chips are down and the brown stuff is headed for the fan I want the light to work. For this reason I don't tweak some of my lights. I know exactly what light exists for what reason. This is also why my carry lights (also the mission critical lights) are unmodded - stock E1e+KL1, stock U2. Just the same way they came from Surefire.

On the other hand there are the fun lights, which I can afford to push the limits to the point where things could break, but I wouldn't take these lights into a critical situation where failure wasn't an option. If they were all I had I'd just take them anyway, but they wouldn't be a first choice for ultra-reliable applications. Things like my Mag mods, Mag85, spotlight.. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

So your prospective buyer must be aware of what he is opting for. I don't know enough about the complexities involved in building the Tiger11/85 to say whether you should offer both. In a perfect world, assuming you could wave a wand and let the light build itself on your workbench I would say "offer both" - but that obviously does not take into account the work involved in keeping two product lines available.

If the light loss is not a lot, and your market is heavily slanted towards critical users, then focus on the Gen2 mods. I myself would operate just behind the bleeding edge for a lot more reliability unless it is a 'play' light that I'm doing for fun.

Thanks everyone for your posts (except bwaites! -- I may someday forgive you for mentioning THE-COMPANY-WHICH-MUST-NOT-BE-NAMED in one of my very own TigerLight threads, and for bringing up the TL mods direct competitor. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nana.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin07.gif BAD Bill, bad. Go sit in the corner, please.)

Just FYI, the TigerLight mods will generally throw as far as the MagCharger w/1160, from reports I have gotten anyway. But whatever, they are comparable in the throw department, although I'm pretty sure the Tiger11 is somewhat brighter, and that the Tiger85 is a lot brighter.

Here's what I do know for sure about the TL mods vs. MC60 comparison:

1. Continuous running and the resultant heat is a complete non-issue for the TL, but is a big concern with the MC60.

2. The TL FBOP is much smaller and lighter than the MC, and the TL OP is about the same size, but lighter, and with pepper spray.

3. The TL has a tactically correct, rear placed switch. The MC does not.

4. The TL beam is not focusable on the fly. The MC beam is.

5. The contacts of the TL are all gold plated and none of the conduction path goes through threads or aluminum. The MC ground path goes through the tail cap and spring.

So, 4 and 5 can be seen in different lights. If you like changing the focus, the MC is a plus, if you don't, the TL is. If you want to change out battery packs in a hurry, the MC is a plus, if you don't the TL is--because there is no concern about oxidation and contact resistance build up.

I can understand why someone would go with the MC. I know one CPFer who feels that "Hey, if I'm going to carry a big-a** incan, I might as well get some runtime. There's little difference bewteen a 2D and a 3D to me." While, as is posted above, others (myself included) feel that there surely IS a difference, and the shorter, lighter light is prefered.

So, returning to the subject of this thread, I will be letting this run through at least this weekend, but for now, it looks as if people are in favor of the Gen 2 mods, and let me tell you, you guys WON'T be disappointed! I'm going to bring the TL to a new level of excellence (and, unfortunately, probably cost--but we'll see.)

OOPs, sorry Jim!

BUT HE ASKED!!!!

Bill

[ QUOTE ]
bwaites said:
OOPs, sorry Jim!

BUT HE ASKED!!!!

Bill

[/ QUOTE ]

OK. I guess I can forgive you this once, Bill. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin07.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

TY

Bill

Jim ref your comparisom of the Tigerlight and the M@g (want to politically correct in your thread) ref numbers three and
four. I do not like the adjustable feature on the mc. Nothing like getting out of your car and need a spotlight and it has moved to a flood. That is one of the things I like about th TL. Just wish it had a tighter beam.
The switch position on the TL is more tactical??? Maybe it is just because I have been doing this for almost Two decades and all mt training is with Mc or Sl lights, but I dont find it really any different. One you use the thumb or fore finger the other you use different finger. In fact one
particular method can not be done with the fbop. Of course this tactic was developed for a foward switch.

oklalawman,

Indeed. I find this very interesting and good to know. When I say it is a "tactically correct" switch, I'm just repeating what has been said, and what the accepted definition of that term is. I may be mistaken.

But in any case, one thing is sure: I have no experience holding a flashlight in a tactical situation, with or without a gun or other weapon. So I am in no position to say which light is better in a "tactical" situation. I rely on others to tell ME about that.

For me, I like the rear, center mounted switches best, such as SF lights have. I can always find the switch, no matter how the light is rotated in my hand, and I like to be able to use an overhand grip.

Is this better in a tactical situation? I would guess so, but I don't know. But it is cool to run around in the woods pretending to be a spec ops insurgent. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif And in that case a TACTICALLY CORRECT switch is a necessity. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crackup.gif

I have several lights with the tail cap switch. I am a dinosaur I admit it. I agree the tail cap is better especially with gloved hands it is easy to find. I have the TL3 mounted on my m4 and relaly like it. In fact if it were rechargable it might be a good duty light. It does not have
the throw of the Singer Hp ( I have 3, one with tail switch). I have two pelican m6 and in plain clothes
I often carry on of them and have trained with them. They are not perfect as the switch feels vaque and does not click. The only time I dont like the tail switch is on longer or heavier lights. When it gets past two 123 lenght give me a regular switch. This puts the light next to your
arm were you dont have to worry about it getting shot, it helps illuminate your sights and it is not out there to be grabbed by a bad guy.

I wish I could run around the woods and play. My kids want to paint ball. Running around like that will be a fun I want to try. The last time I was out in the woods, we were hunting for a man who killed 3 people, was armed, and very much a survivalist. Most of my time is spent hunting in the
urban jungle.

I have several lights with the tail cap switch. I am a dinosaur I admit it. I agree the tail cap is better especially with gloved hands it is easy to find. I have the TL3 mounted on my m4 and relaly like it. In fact if it were rechargable it might be a good duty light. It does not have
the throw of the Singer Hp ( I have 3, one with tail switch). I have two pelican m6 and in plain clothes
I often carry on of them and have trained with them. They are not perfect as the switch feels vaque and does not click. The only time I dont like the tail switch is on longer or heavier lights. When it gets past two 123 lenght give me a regular switch. This puts the light next to your
arm were you dont have to worry about it getting shot, it helps illuminate your sights and it is not out there to be grabbed by a bad guy.

I wish I could run around the woods and play. My kids want to paint ball. Running around like that will be a fun I want to try. The last time I was out in the woods, we were hunting for a man who killed 3 people, was armed, and very much a survivalist. Most of my time is spent hunting in the
urban jungle.