Is there a fairer way to pick serial numbers?

There is a serial number frenzy going on with the LionCub and I found myself caught up in it. It has been a frustrating experience for me. I asked for a serial number early on, didn't get what I wanted, still don't have a serial number, and finally started questioning this whole serial number thing altogether. Part of me is upset with being upset about all this. In fact, "Do serial numbers really matter?". That's a question I'll try to answer for myself at another time. For now, I'd like to pose the question --

Is there a fairer way to pick serial numbers?

I don't know. What I do know is that the process I am participating in doesn't feel fair to me. And in the same way that this community has tackled subjects such as how to B/S/T, and how to handle auctions, I'm hoping this community can find a better way to pick serial numbers.

Without going into all the gory details here's what I have recently experienced and observed.

There has been an ongoing thread about the LionHeart with a hint of the LionCub here and there. People knew it was coming, nobody had much information about it, and there was no activity to "get on the list". In fact, the "progressive reveal" was actually fun.

Then, all of sudden, bang! Last Saturday night a new thread opened up. Someone asked about the project and "officially" put themselves first in line. That was it. The frenzy started. By Monday morning there were already about 10 or so people asking for numbers and I also put myself "on the list" asking for a number.

Now, at this point, to the best of my knowledge, there was no official list. In fact, the potential sellers were not yet ready to sell. Nevertheless, requests started pouring in. There were people asking for numbers in two different threads, and people were advised to email and PM their number requests as well.

On Tuesday night a third dealer thread was finally started. I saw this early Wednesday morning for the first time. I was surprised to find out for the first time that there were now two different sets of serial numbers and that I had already been assigned to the number I picked but not the color I would prefer. I also saw that somebody else already got the number and color I wanted.

All of this happened "behind the scenes" in the world of emails and PMs without any explicit posting on the thread.

I tried for another number, found out again that it was reserved , and in the meantime requests are pouring in, updated lists are being generated, there is some discussion about first payers getting picking preferences, people are trading numbers, some people are canceling because they're not getting their desired numbers, and so on. Some of this is happening on the thread "in public" and some of this is still happening "behind the scenes".

So, is there a fairer way to pick serial numbers?

One thing that is probably easily doable is to determine the exact sequential order in which people make their request. I see this all the time in non-serial number lists. Posts, PMs, and emails all have timestamps and it should be relatively straightforward to create one list from many sources. With a single list people can then make their serial number choices "in order". I realize there may be a number of logistical problems in processing such a list one member at a time. However, part of the whole idea is to slow down this process and avoid the frenzy and unfairness.

My guess is that we have months to go before the first shipment. What's the rush.

It was an unfortunate start for the Lion Cub list. I don't think this was what Dan had planned, I think he was mobbed. It looks like his great efforts to please everyone has led to some being disappointed.

Is there a fairer way? It depends on who you ask. I wouldn't have honored any of the emails, pm's, or posts from the mob who "claimed" numbers without any authority but their own. I'm sure some of these people would not think me fair because they "called" it first, regardless of the fact that this isn't thier game to make the rules.

I think a fairer way would be to announce the rules for the list and a time when it will begin. If someone wants a specific number, they secure it with a post of the number and notice of payment sent. It's first come first serve, all above board for everyone to see. Those who don't want to pay now, but still want to get in line for a light, can get in line and take what ever lights are left after those prepaid.

This would help eliminate the speculators who jump on lights without any commitment because they were first, and then back out leaving a vacum of desirable lights. This creates the domino effect of others wanting to "upgrade" their numbers and you get what's going on now.

I must say that I've watched the Lion cub list, and Dan and gregw are doing an incredible job with what they have to work with. They appear to be handling it as fairly as possible, trying to please everyone. The problem is, you can't please everyone.

How important are the numbers? I think Charlie's suggestion of sending out blank lights with a sharpie is telling. Come on. These are a limited edition custom light. Every one is special. When having a certain number is more important than having the light itself, that's when I think it's time to take a deep breath and ask for a reality check.

Greg

thats ok, TW claimed all the best #'s for himself anyway. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Shane

I'm just happy to be on the list for one of these lights, even if I don't know what it will look like, how it will act. or anything but the Charlie wong name on it. which IMHO is worth the not knowing about the light yet.

doug

digg, I shall diligently update (including pics) whenever I can. "Stuff happens, you'll know." That's muh motto (man, whatta dumb-sounding motto...). /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif

,,,,

Charlie,
My post was not ment to upset you. I was mearly trying to say that any light with your name on it is worth the money.

The workmanship and quality you put into your light are evident in the amount of people that are trying to buy your light in droves. over half sold already.
Which is causing this numbers problem, with people.
doug

I don't have any comment regarding serial numbers, other than I couldn't care less about them.

I will say that I think the way the Cub pre-sale is being handled is a disaster. It would appear that inquisitive members here are now able dictate the timing of a sale offering simply by asking questions and/or claiming themselves "in". Next thing you know another guy says "I'm in too", and we've all seen where it goes from there.

The next thing you know, the vendor "officially" opens the offer, even though there is no proto picture, no firm timeline, no firm specs., etc. In short, you are asked to send your money right away, and we'll figure the rest out later and get back to you. To my thinking that's a backwards way to do business.

I guess I'm just disillusioned with the new TW/Bulk "alliance". Between the new price points, and the lights being marketed as collectibles, I find myself wishing for a return of the "good old days". I say that with full knowledge that Charlie probably doesn't remember them the same way, since he was the guy doing all the work. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif

No disrespect intended toward Dan or Charlie. All this is just one man's opinon...

Peter

[ QUOTE ]
LitFuse said:
All this is just one man's opinon...

[/ QUOTE ]

Well now it's two men's.

It was not all that easy for me to come up with the price of the VIP and later the LionHeart, great lights though they are. The price of the cub is more than I can come up with.

The price progression for Mr. Bulk lights seems to be heading in the direction of custom collectables. I guess this will be good for Charlie as he can build fewer lights at higher price points. I am glad I managed to get a couple examples of his execellent work. Those that can afford Charlies lights will have the best currently available.

On the serial number thing I guess I am lucky that it does not really matter to me, all of his lights have the same great quality. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif

I participated in the serial number madness on the LH. I wish I hadn't.

If I were in a position to afford the new light, I'd not bother with a s/n this time around.

I think the fairest way to deal with serial numbers is to ship them out randomly. That way, it doesn't matter who came first. How many ppl have other "limited edition" items where they could CHOOSE the number they got? I think the LH is my only item where I got to choose.
Actually the best thing to do is to NOT put a serial number on the thing at all. I would prefer my LH nat to have no serial number but that wasn't an option.

The fairest way is to have no numbering at all and shipping by payment order.
With that said I always try to get #32. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Numbering doesn't really matter to me at this point. Just getting a custom piece of art in your collection is what counts. Actually, the serial # only make me more attached to the light and unwilling to sell it.

I've never gotten to choose a serial number on anything. I think it's nice, but when you're dealing with a limited number in the first place you're bound to have some bickering when numbers are wanted by multiple people.

People may have favorite numbers, and they'd want those. People who don't have a favorite number will probably ask for a number. 007 seems popular, of course, thanks to James Bond.

I think if you're going to have serial numbers like this, it's going to be hard to please people. They'll either be unhappy at not getting the number they want or they'll be unhappy at not being able to choose the number at all. Surefire didn't ask me what number I wanted on my lights, and Ford didn't ask me what I wanted the VIN number to be on my car. I wonder when a production company makes something if the same things happen on a private basis; ie., when Benchmade's First Production Run of Knife X comes out, are there dealers and others out there calling numbers?

I can't see an easy solution to serial numbers, myself, other than not having them. Maybe just saying Limited Production Run, 1/100 on all of them. I've got a few knives like that, but you have to trust the manufacturer to hold to those numbers. .

When you are buying a Fender strat or a T-bird, the serial # indicates which unit in the series you are buying. First one off the assembly line is supposed to be #1. I doubt that these lights are being assembled in numerical order.

I think primo serial numbers are highly desirable and I'd charge extra for them. You know, 2, 3, 5, 7, 11, 13, 17, etc. The run-of-the-mill units can get composite serial numbers. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif Love this photo.