Ever been in a Maximum Security Prison?

I have been in the MCC at Westville in Indiana, the maximum security area, a prison inside a prison.
I was doing some work modifying the guard panels displaying fire alarm status and installing a new fire alarm panel.

They would lock down the prisoners when we were in there working, they didnt like it much.

I saw a few prisoners being moved around while I was there, all of them skinny, weasely crankhead looking types...
not too scary....prison food sucks hehe..

the guards for the most part didnt seem too bright either..

Depressing place all in all though.

Always felt good to be buzzed through the gate on the way out to the parking lot.

Once I was gassing up the service truck right after I left..

I said to the gal at the counter...sure feels good to be out of prison...her eyes got wide for a second.....heh

Why, what have you heard? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mpr.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Great book about prison:

You got nothing coming...

I once had to help drill and run cable through a high security prison, prisoners did not like it!

I do a yearly audit in a Prison. I actually have to audit the prisoners themselves and the staff that run the furniture manufacturing facility. The prisoners are all lifers - rapists, paedophiles & murders etc
Naturally their 'jobs' are of huge importance to them and so they treat me with significant respect. It is in fact by far the easiest factory audit I do. Everything is checked and rechecked. Everything is accounted for.

It's surprisingly easy to leave the prison... as long as you have my thumb print and face. Takes a while to get in and and only a few minutes to be let out...

Al

I've worked on the construction of 5 prisons and additions to 3 more. The additions were to working prisons so we had to occasionally go through where the prisoners were.

I worked on redesign of a prison that was already built. I was watching Ted Koppel one night on nightline and he was going to be locked in a prison for 24 hours so he could write about it. I immediately recognized it as the one that I was redesigning. When the 2 that I redesigned were bid I had to go on tours of the original with prospective contractors. Virtually all of the prisoners looked like gang-types with nor shortage of tattoos.

I went to one of the newer prisons one time to check on a problem. While there I ate in the dining room with the guards, served by the prisoners. The prisoners doing the serving were incredibly polite and tried to be very helpful. However I have heard stories of them putting bad things in the food (use your imagination) when they are mad at someone.

One the prisons that I did an addition to was a federal prison. I had to get fingerprinted and get a full background check before I could even enter that one.

A lot of our new prisons have residences nearby for the use of the wardens. I've designed at least 7 of these. At one I remember a story that the warden's wife wanted some rooms repainted so the warden asked one of his facilities managers to put together a work party of prisoners for this. He asked for a list of the prisoners on the work party first, and then complained to the facilities manager that all of the prisoners were murders or violent offenders. The manager told the warden that this was all he had to choose from.

Some of these buildings were for a form of solitary confinement, basically for prisoners that were troublemakers. The cells don't have any bars, the walls are solid and the door is solid with just a small window. When you are in a cell you can't see anybody except maybe the person's face in the cell directly across from you. They get 23 hours a day in their cell and maybe 1 hour a day outside. That 1 hour is in a small fenced area and you might see a couple of other prisoners in adjacent fenced areas, but there is a separation so even if you want to you can't touch the other prisoners.

All of these facilities are new and clean but I can't imagine anyone not doing their best to stay out of them. I think even a person with no tendencies towards claustrophobia would not do well in a small cell with just a small window in the door.

I read a book once called "The Damage Done" its by a Guy called warren fellows. He was first grade footballer here in australia, who ended up in Bang Kwang (the infamous "bangkok Hilton" prison (and some other thai prisons if i remeber right) because he got busted smuggleing drugs from asia to australia . These prisons would make any maximum security prisons look the real hilton.

If any body ever gets the chance to read it, its a really captivating book. One of my Favourite autobiographies.

Wow!!! Prison Difintely not the place for me!!!!!!!

I have to quit drinking.. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Visited Rahway state pen for a college sociology trip.
I thought the inmates would be in lockdown but we were walking amongst them and even went in to one guys cell. Imagine a bunch of college kids getting a tour of your cell. Recognised some guys that were in the Lifers show.
Funny how only 3 guys went on the trip. Not the case with the female students, they all went.
It's loud, humid, smelly with depressing dim lights and yelling.
Met some parole officers, saw all the shivs and shanks that were confiscated, all in all, an eye openner.

Question!

I saw a movie at Sundance that was a documentary, and based in a prison. We could talk about that in another thread. The content of the movie was ok but the shots were all lit too well and focused too well -- sterile and visually boring, so my mind wandered a little. I noticed that, although fairly new, this facility used mechanical keys for everything. The guy that volunteered to come into the prison every day (Long story) did have a badge, but it just had a barcode on it that was scanned at a booth where he was then given a set of keys to control the motorized doors.

I wondered why not a proximity badge system, seems like that would be a lot quicker and easier to shut down if a badge was lost or stolen. I guess they could theoretically be hacked, but I doubt prisoners would be able to get access to everything needed to hack a proximity card. Could be wrong though. They talked about the prison a bit and it was a new enough facility that a RFID system could have been implemented in the first place...

Mechanical keys are used for several reasons.

First, mechanical locks and keys are intimidating. They keys are big and easy to spot. The locks can look super strong.

The working parts of a prox card can be made very, very small. Easy to conceal if stollen or duped.

It's hard to hack a lock where guards are watching you.

It's hard to dup a key within the prison.



Electronic locks, on the other hand, can be finicky

Some electronic locks are trivial to defeat.

Electronic locks depend on a central control. Computers can be hacked and they can be hacked remotely.

Prox cards are easy to duplicate. They should only be used in supervised areas.

Prox cards should also require a secret (pin, code, etc) or biometric. This adds to the fragility of the system.

Prox readers themselves can be hacked.

And then there's the fact that they still need manual backup for every thing in case there's a power failure.


Electronic locks are used in some prisons. Some of them are poorly designed and some are great. The Monterey County jail had a lot of problems with theirs 20 years ago. The first fire alarm opened all the doors. The installer had done the normal "life safety" routine.

Several country jails use a wristband for prisoner ID. There have been two cases that I know of where alleged murderers traded wrist bands and walked out of jail in the place of another doing shorter time. One was in Salinas,Ca and involved a top gang member. CSI even did a show using the same theme.

Daniel

I like the exploding "necklace" idea from the movie Deadlock better than locks or bars or fences or guards. Stray off the grounds, and BOOM! Of course, I'm sure the bleeding hearts would have a field day with that idea if we ever actually put it into practice. Or better yet just dump all hard core convicts on an island somewhere permanently along with the lawyers who defended them. I'm all for trying to reintegrate lesser offenders back into society, but once someone has progressed to the point where they land in a super max for 20 years they're long past rehabilitation, yet far too dangerous to ever be allowed back into society. Prisons seem a very costly way to deal with them, and on some level I feel it demeans society to stick someone in a four foot cage for the remainder of their natural life. Rather, give them their freedom in a place filled with only their own kind from which escape is impossible, and where they can no longer do any harm to law-abiding citizens.

Damn..... what was that movie called..........

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jtr1962 said:
I like the exploding "necklace" idea from the movie Deadlock better than locks or bars or fences or guards. Stray off the grounds, and BOOM! Of course, I'm sure the bleeding hearts would have a field day with that idea if we ever actually put it into practice. Or better yet just dump all hard core convicts on an island somewhere permanently along with the lawyers who defended them. I'm all for trying to reintegrate lesser offenders back into society, but once someone has progressed to the point where they land in a super max for 20 years they're long past rehabilitation, yet far too dangerous to ever be allowed back into society. Prisons seem a very costly way to deal with them, and on some level I feel it demeans society to stick someone in a four foot cage for the remainder of their natural life. Rather, give them their freedom in a place filled with only their own kind from which escape is impossible, and where they can no longer do any harm to law-abiding citizens.

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You mean Australia?

bahahahha

I've been in a minimum security federal prison (uh, thats Federal Correctional Institute), populated mostly by white collar criminals like Martha Stewart types. There were no fences, and the prisons could just walk away whenever they felt like it. None did, though, because if you did and were caught, you would be going to a much less pleasant prison. They had putt-putt golf, and the cells were more like spartan dorm rooms.

best regards

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DarkLight said:

bahahahha

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Thats not funny.

Though i do know what you mean about bleeding hearts.

Still. not ****ing (sorry mods edit if nescessary) funny. Actually offensive. yes, convicts were dumped on australia, but its the best damn place to live. part of my family were brought over here as convicts,Stole some bread, married a chinaman when it wasn't acceptable, you wouldn't belive turmiol......Served their time, and got their land. What the f does this have to do with this topic.

Tasman island (Van demons land) Tasmania, princess mary's homeland. What ever you want to call it.

Abel Tasman was my favourite explorer/navagationist when i was schooling.

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DarkLight said:

You mean Australia?

bahahahha

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This is an insult. yes i'm pissed off. I like you DL, but i'm peeved never the less.

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA I LIVE next to one of the largest prisons in the darn WORLD!!! The "hot house" in leavenworth... Federal Jail.. My GOSH its HUGE!!!

-tom

I'm very sorry DL. Few too many beers last night, combined with some other dramas. Tottally out of place, and your comment had every thing to do with jails. Please accept my appologies.

I work at the other extreme; in a secure mental health unit for people with challenging behaviours. Many of these people are psychotic and possess a whole range of psychological disorders. We have paedophilles, terrorists and some just plain insane people, all kept in check with medication. I did some of my training in a high secure unit (in the UK we have low, medium and high secure ratings) holding serial killers etc and some of the things the people in there had done made Hannibal Lecter look like my Grandma'.
We have coded keypads (easy to hotwire!) on our doors. The high secure unit had keypads AND keys. All staff carry personal alarms with a pull pin which are linked to monitors in the ceiling spaced about every 5 yards. The staff in high secure units have alarms that attach to your belt which contain a mercury switch. If you go more than 45 degrees from the vertical they automatically go off. I'm part of the control and restraint team (I actually got injured yesterday; hit in the face) but thats just one of my jobs. In the high secure unit they have dedicated control and restraint staff on each ward to supplement the training all staff have.
I've heard a rumour that a high secure unit in the U.K is testing Tasers or something similar to use on violent patients. I do know that British prison officers are going to be issued with PAVA spray soon. We don't use anything like that; the only real danger in my place is when management cut back on staff. Otherwise we have a professional team who watches each others backs.
Anybody here have experience with mental health units in other countries? I've always been curious as to how other places deal with psychoses.
D.