Mac Mini? Good/bad/ugly?

I'm aware that to some this topic may be sensitive. I DO NOT want any flame wars to start here, let's see if we can engage in a productive discussion as professionals. Thank you /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I have always run heterogenous, mixed environments. I am NOT seeking to compare one vs the other. I'm seeking to complement one with the other. As OS'es go I've been there and covered quite a lot (OS/2 Warp, every version of Windows since 3.0, including NT and all variants, did BSD UNIX for 9 years, ran Sun Solaris from 2.5 all the way thru 8, and still keep a real DOS box around). Mixed environments are second nature to me. Windows and UNIX ain't going away. But I don't mind adding OS X to the mix.

And I'm not the easiest of people to please when it comes to my computers. (actually those who know would say "does anything ever make this guy happy" but that's another story /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif)

But I saw the Mac Mini at a recent tradeshow and I was impressed.. I mean, REALLY impressed. I know about its UNIX heritage, because I run FreeBSD as my preferred UNIX (and incidentally, so does CPF), and it occured to me that this is one of the sweetest UNIX boxes around - affordable, plus Apple's legendary GUI and artistic style. Under the hood, it's my favorite version of UNIX with all the essentials right there where I expect them to be down to /bin/tcsh. I tried a Powerbook G4 last year, first thing I did was look for my # prompt /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

It's inexpensive, works with all my existing peripherals including mice and monitors, it's so small that even my laptops get worried about it, it fits anywhere, and it looks totally minimal. I could hide it on top of a CRT monitor and have it disappear if I wanted to.

It's SILENT as well, something I mandate from my PCs. Absolute must. Low power consumption, low heat. Very important criteria for me. Same criteria I'd attach to my PCs. It's got all the essentials in hardware. Wired, wireless networks. All there. Good.

I'm really tempted to buy one.

Now guys.. tell me the truth /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

* Do you own the Mini? What do you like about it, what don't you like about it?
* Is that part about "Mac-specific memory REQUIRED" true, or can I simply buy any off-the-shelf DDR DIMM and slap it in there? I'd like a little bit more memory on the Mini, there's a minimum of 512MB for my computers and I'd rather it not hit the hard disk.
* Would be especially interested in hearing from FreeBSD admins who run MacOS X (any hardware platform) about the differences, the quirks, and migration tips. I AM concerned about the underlying OS because I intend to drop to my shell prompt and push it to its limits apart from using it from the GUI. What you can/cannot do would be of interest.
* Is there the equivalent of the ports collection?
* Is there an MP3 player for the Mac that replicates the look and feel of Winamp? Sorry, just a personal quirk of mine.
* Firewall - yes, I feel more comfortable knowing that I have one and use one. Maybe because I've seen too much, but better to have it than not. Does /sbin/ipfw still work the way we have always expected it to? It would be great if it has, I could just bring my existing rulesets over.
* Do they provide installation media so end-users can wipe the hard disk and reinstall everything? Sure the OS may not require reinstallation, but sometimes, *I* might want to reinstall to reset everything to factory defaults because I don't trust myself and my mistakes /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Any other insights in how to make the most of it would be very welcome. I am sooooo tempted.. you'll see me hitting B/S/T in the next few days trying to dispose of some of the lights /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif really, I have another Mag3X for sale, lithium ion powered... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Thanks guys /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Here is a mac thread at avsforum that discusses using a mini for a HTPC. Lots of info although I'm not sure exactly what you want to do with it. The price is excellent.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=115

There are many small systems out there so you don't have to jump on the mac fad, search for some of the mini-itx systems out there.

KevinL,

Here is a link where you are more apt to receive answers to your questions: http://www.123macmini.com

I do not own the Mac Mini, but I plan to get one as soon as I pay off me current Mac.

The thing I really like about the Mac is ease of use. I especially love that it is intuitive to use. I have dabbled in Win/Tel computers and can never understand why the world has chosen an inferior system. Prolly the same reasons we have war and hunger, etc..

Gates himself has stated that Apple makes the best computers.

Yes, every Mac I have owned comes with a disc for the system software that allows reinstallation.

There is another reason I like them. You can not only reinstall the system software, but you can partition your hard drive. You can run multiple versions of the different Mac OS's on each seperate partition. Sort of like having several different computers in one.

I think the there is a way to run Linux on them, but I have never done it. I read about it when Linux was comming up.

The new Mac OS is supposed to run Windoze. You can read the specs yourself at http://www.apple.com I think the main complaint is that it runs slowly.

MS has software that is made especially for the Mac. I have not used it.

Typically, the Mac CPU chip, given the same Mhz, runs faster than the Win/Tel chips. At one time it was double the speed. I have not kept up with that race recently.

Check out the G4 Cube if you like silence. They can be bought on Ebay. The Mac Mini is supposed to be very quiet, but I have not seen a real one yet.

IMO, the Mac Mini is the Apple computer that I have been waiting for. Too bad it has taken 20 years for them to be competitive on prices.

Not sure about the current RAM requirements. In my old Mac I have upgraded RAM from off the shelf with no problems. Get the RAM that is rated at the higher speed though. That should improve the speed. I never knew RAM came in different speeds until I went to upgrade. Normally, one will see a cheap price for RAM and find out that it is the slower RAM being offered.

The thing I hate about the Mac, is the cost of peripherials. Normally, the prices are insane. Not sure what they are now. In the past, I think the lower market share is what drove the higher prices. The Mac itself has always been overpriced as well. I hope the trend with the Mac Mini prices will become more common.

Fin

Thanks for the replies, I'm looking for something of a desktop, something to play with, and something to replace a UNIX box with.

To that end I found an interesting tech briefing. The reason why it appeals to me is that it seems to have all the essentials that I need preloaded for me. Thing about Linux is that it's still raw around the edges especially in the desktop/GUI department (FreeBSD is a close cousin, we run essentially the same things). Same comment applies to FreeBSD, which is a really 'roll your own' UNIX, they install a very minimal distribution set for you and then you pick what you want. While I like this system for servers where you want the absolute minimum on them, well, for desktops it's a bit time consuming to do the setup.

"never understand why the world has chosen an inferior system." /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif if only we could answer that about the lights. Why bother with lesser lights when you can have the best, whether CPF custom or by your favorite high end manufacturer?

You're right about the peripherals, the nice thing about the Mini is that I can use all my existing stuff except the PS/2 keyboards. I like the Mini's keyboard anyway, I will probably get one. Price is important. I'm not operating on an unlimited budget.

Point taken about the MiniITX boxes. If I was going to stick with x86-compatible operating systems I'd go that route.

This is one of the only bad things I have seen about the mini.

I often read macrumors.com (though I don't [yet] own
any Apple products).

There have been a few threads about "Why is my macmini
so slow?" and the answer always is that OS-X needs at
least 512MB to run decently fast. Especially with the
slower drive the minis use.

There is also a rumor there that Apple will upgrade the
minimum memory on all their machines to 512M soon (I
think it was in April).

Greg

Here we go, you want it straight so I'll give it to you straight. Let me hit up all your points first, then I'll make some of my own.

* Do you own the Mini? What do you like about it, what don't you like about it? No, but I own a 15" PowerBook G4 which has startlingly similar specs.

* Is that part about "Mac-specific memory REQUIRED" true, or can I simply buy any off-the-shelf DDR DIMM and slap it in there? I'd like a little bit more memory on the Mini, there's a minimum of 512MB for my computers and I'd rather it not hit the hard disk.

This was a little unclear when the Mini first came out but we have answers now. You can put in what ever memory you want, but you will have to open it with a putty knife. (I can send you the video on how if you get one, or even if you don't). Technically any RAM should work, but I would buy from a place that caters to Mac customers. Mac's, like ASUS motherboards, tend to be picky about the quality of RAM that is used. I tried 2 sticks of $200 ram in my PowerBook and it just wouldn't work even though spec for spec it should have. Put a stick of $230 ram in from a Mac place and it's been perfectly stable ever since.


* Would be especially interested in hearing from FreeBSD admins who run MacOS X (any hardware platform) about the differences, the quirks, and migration tips. I AM concerned about the underlying OS because I intend to drop to my shell prompt and push it to its limits apart from using it from the GUI. What you can/cannot do would be of interest.

I can't comment too much on this. I dabble in the shell but I don't live in it. OS X is not exactly like every other *nix flavor, but I'd say it's more like a unique distribution of Unix than it is a completely different OS. Some things will probably be a little different, but not so different you can't compile your way to happiness. OS X runs on Darwin, Apple's open source kernel. There is a large community out there compiling *nix apps for Darwin. Although not as beautiful as "Aqua" or OS X native apps, these apps can be run though "X11" if they have a GUI.

* Is there the equivalent of the ports collection?
Don't know what you're asking /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif


* Is there an MP3 player for the Mac that replicates the look and feel of Winamp? Sorry, just a personal quirk of mine.

Donno, I think there is a port of the Unix/Linux Winamp clone. iTunes is worth a try too. It's ok on windows, but it runs much nicer on OS X. I hated it at first, but give it 2 weeks and it may very well grow on you.


* Firewall - yes, I feel more comfortable knowing that I have one and use one. Maybe because I've seen too much, but better to have it than not. Does /sbin/ipfw still work the way we have always expected it to? It would be great if it has, I could just bring my existing rulesets over.

Maybe not right out of the box, but it's probably not hard to configure. I'd google search >ipfw "OS X"<. Apple has been really good about putting beautiful GUI front ends on Unix apps when feasable, so it's possible that the OS X firewall *IS* ipfw. I juts dropped into terminal and was able to run "sudo ipfw" so it looks like it is there by default.

* Do they provide installation media so end-users can wipe the hard disk and reinstall everything? Sure the OS may not require reinstallation, but sometimes, *I* might want to reinstall to reset everything to factory defaults because I don't trust myself and my mistakes.

Yes. You want the good, bad, and ugly, so I'll give it to you. This is not that big of a deal, but you wanted it so you got it. Apple will send you a software restore disc with the Mac. Right now the Mac Mini will *ONLY* be able to be restored from that disc. The reason is that 10.3 Panther came out before the Mac mini, so the current 10.3 Panther retail discs don't have all the drivers and extensions required to run the Mini. When you install OS X from those discs you have the option of installing just the OS or the OS + bundled applications.

Once 10.4 comes out it's a moot point. Also, they update the retail discs from time to time, but I doubt the Panther discs will be updated again before Tiger comes out.

One of the nice things about OS X is "Archive and Install." If you want to redo your OS, it isn't the mess it is on a Windows machine. You can pick "archive and install" and then OS X will make a folder on the drive called "Previous Installation" and shove all your old system files in there. It will also automatically back up your home directory (Which includes the settings for almost all your programs) install OS X fresh, and then restore your home directory. Honestly though, you'll not need to do that for the reasons you have to redo Windows. I've reinstalled OS X on my PowerBook twice in 1 year. The first time I got over-zealous cleaning up my hard disc and wiped out my english keyboard layout. The second time OS X was crashing a lot so I reinstalled. It was still crashing a lot. Turned out it was caches stored in my home directory! and because OS X was restoring my home directory, it was also restoring the bad caches. Fortunately, reinstalling OS X is not very traumatic so I wasn't out much either time. Both times I was 100% back up and running with *ALL* my apps within 2 or 3 hours. Much less than the days it can take to rebuild a windows machine. Again, not trying to start a holly war, just giving you the good.

Any other insights in how to make the most of it would be very welcome. Get one and don't let conceptions or things you've heard hold you back! If you can find a problem, there's probably a solution for it. I do have VirtualPC on my Mac. The only thing I use it for is to load maps onto my GPS unit. Literally everything else I use a computer for I've been able to find (an excellent!) OS X application for. There are some great things I've found ONLY on OS X. The minute you get the thing make sure to go get yourself "LaunchBar." If you have a Bluetooth enabled cell phone also get "Salling Clicker." If you have X10 home automation stuff that go get a program called "Xtension" written partially by none other than CPF's own James Sentman...it's a deceptively simple platform, don't be afraid to play with it.



So now, the Good, Bad, and Ugly about the Mac mini:

Good:
Small, high value computer. Not out there to compete in a price war with Dell or eMachines, so it's not the cheapest thing around, but it's certainly one of the best values out there. You will be blown away at how much computer is packed in that box.

Somebody mentioned you could partition the drive and run multiple OSSes, this isn't even necessary, you can put multiple OSSes on the SAME DRIVE and because of the way the Mac BIOS (Well, it's called Firmware on a Mac) and bootstap system works you can easily boot to any of those OSses. Perhaps I'm stupid, but I could never get multi-booting working properly on a PC, on a Mac I set it up without even realizing I had!

Bad:
It's only got 1 RAM slot and the internal hard drive is a slow, 2.5" drive. If you keep the stock 256 MB ram in there and try to be a power user you've going to be hit with lots of painful page swaps. Adding more memory will help dramatically, you can also boot from a Firewire hard drive if it comes down to that, and if you end up really liking the Mini there are other Mac offerings with faster drives.

Ugly:
As tree noted, there have been some issues with VGA output. I've also read that some people had dead DVI-VGA adaptors. Probably fixed by now, and if you use a DVI-capable LCD this is a non-issue.

I soooo wish I could offer more advise here for you, but I'm still green on my new Mac Mini.

I can tell you that I've had no problems with it.

I've done a very unusual thing, but one which sounds as though you might be considering... As soon as I bought the thing, and just after I booted it to check out the apps... I wiped the drive to load OS X server, stick it on top of my 10/100 switch in the basement and try it out as a headless server. Trying for at least remote ftp, web, mail, and Win/Mac filesharing.

Well, for 2 weeks when I have time I've been experimenting with OS X server and finding that there are still (1) lots for me to learn about it, and (2) some not-ready-for-prime-time quirks of remote management to be worked out. For example, a remote OS software update halted because QuickTime demanded (on the remote screen which I couldn't access without plugging in a monitor because I hadn't chosen to remote the display to my PowerBook, unix-rlogin-fashion) that I acknowledge the license agreeement. I have ended up leaving plugged into it a Dell VGA CRT that I found at my dump's recycling area. And a keyboard and mouse. So much for a headless server. Maybe it's my fault, doesn't seem so though. That's just with the Server Admin GUI tool.

I need to try the command-line management tools next. I bet they're better.

No probs using the multisync VGA-type CRT on the Mini's DVI->VGA adaptor, though.

The mini is wonderfully quiet (not silent but essentially so) and uses little power.

I'd love to be able to report more, but it's just to early for my experience with the Mini. Everything's good so far, though, meaning no hardware troubles at all.

Good job binky! You found the 1 huge problem using a Mac as a headless server with X server installed.

I run X server on my old G4 tower, which my mom also uses as a day to day email machine. Software update doesn't work as well through Server Admin as it should, and printing in OS X Panther server sucks, but other than that I've been pretty impressed. Drop me an email and I'd be happy to help you get setup with a decent VNC (Remote desktop) setup. Won't cost you a thing other than some of your time, and it's completely cross-platform compatible.

Ryan, thanks for dropping in and sharing your wealth of experience /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

From Apple's tech briefing we can probably get most of our UNIX/Linux stuff to work on it, it seems to contain all the essentials. Ports collection is an automated installation system that FreeBSD users have enjoyed for a while, but I'll understand if it is not available for OSX because it is very specific to FreeBSD.

I did a little bit of reading and the firewall is there, based on /sbin/ipfw with Apple's very nice GUI on top of it so that you can configure it without having to get your hands dirty. Apple said it ships in secure stateful mode as well, allowing only outbound transmissions and their respective return packets until you open it up. Excellent!

The backup and restore utility sounds like great stuff. PC backups are always painful /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif rebuilds.. actually, for my specific needs and software combo, FreeBSD takes the longest to rebuild after an install. Windows is somewhere in the middle.

Not the cheapest machine out there, but certainly the nicest in its price class. I simply don't have space for another tower case, whereas this one I can hide it on top of one of my CRTs. Can't afford LCDs yet, waiting for this bunch of CRTs to die off. May be a couple of years and hopefully LCDs will drop in price. Point taken about the DVI connection, Finbar's pointer to 123macmini.com was very helpful. I visited a local AppleCenter here, they had a demo unit with a DVI-to-VGA adapter fitted. Looks ok. We'll solve that problem if it becomes a problem.

Apparently it's a popular Mac, they told me they were looking at a 1-MONTH backorder!

I may use my Mini as a server + desktop as well. There is currently a FreeBSD box doing that job on my LAN, and it's so old that I think it's just a matter of when, not whether, it goes poof /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

binky: Quiet and cool is very welcome. Tom's Hardware was saying it uses as little as 20W. Even assuming if it draws 2-3 times that amount of power at full throttle, it's still a lot less than some of my computers - my main desktop draws 60W for the CPU ALONE!

Oh and one more question.....

Buy now or buy tomorrow... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

The rumor mill says blah blah blah faster processor included coffee maker and it will even fry bacon and eggs for you in the morning etc.etc.etc. coming this summer. Any truth to the rumors and should I consider holding on for summer or is it worth buying now?

It seems strange that they'd give a newly launched product a makeover. I didn't really observe exactly when it launched, but it doesn't seem to be more than a few months old.

This is the kind of question that never bugs you with lights, for me I asked not what came after the U2, I just bought it and I am happy. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif lights seldom become obsolete.

Edit: backtrack on an incorrect observation. It's another minor issue that's easily resolved.

Haven't heard any Mini rumors, I wouldn't hesitate to buy.

HERE is one of the best, rumor based buying guides I've found. It will show you how long since the product's last update with links to recent rumors about said product.

Well....I went ahead and did it. My order is now on file with Apple and they are talking about a 3-6 week lead time in my corner of the world. Hope I get it sooner. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif will report back on my findings when I get hold of it. But somehow, I already think I will like it..

I found my own answer to the ports issue by chance, I stumbled across darwinports.org. To FreeBSD users, the ports collection is an indexed collection of information files about various programs which will compile and run on the system. You simply change to the directory (ie. cd /usr/ports/www/firefox) and run 'make install'. The ports system will download the software for you, verify its checksum, extract, patch, fetch and build all dependencies following the same process, return to the build, compile the software from source, finish the build, do the post-install for you, and return you to the command prompt when it's all done. It makes installing software unimaginably easy. The joke that's gone around for a number of years is # make install, go make coffee.. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

It's even easier than on Windows, heck, in Windows, I have to download the software myself. With the ports, I just say what I want and it will be done.


Part of the allure about the Mac is the lack of spyware, viruses, and relentless patching. I find I'm not running around patching my FreeBSD servers (of which there are quite a few) like a madman every month.

And in case I haven't said it clearly enough - CPF runs FreeBSD. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Hiya - came late to this thread, but perhaps I can help a bit...

I'm a long-time Mac and Windows user, and a newer Unix user. I used to do telephone tech support for a consumer product on Windows 3.1, OS/2 and MacOS 6, and did in-store demos for the Apple Newton launch, to give you some idea...

I'm really a marketing guy, but by default, I'm the tech guy for my wife's travel agency, and at home. Between the two, we've got a dozen or so Wintel boxes, an Xserver running OSX 10.3 Server, a couple Mac G4 Powerbooks, a couple G4 desktops, and one 1.25Ghz 40GB Mac Mini.

The Mini is my personal machine, and the one I run everything from. I picked it up at the local Apple Store the first hour they were on sale. It's a solid little machine - seems stable, and fast enough. I'm sure that a dual G5 PowerMac would just smoke it, but I don't really need that. I run Adobe Creative Suite all the time, and with 512MB of RAM, it runs fine for my relatively light uses - creating flyers, newsletters, basic web pages, etc. Office runs fine, etc. In fact, one of the things I like most about Macs in general, and the Mini in particular, is that they just do what you want. No muss, no fuss, no flashy melodrama. They just work.

The Mini is kind of the over-achiever in this category - low price, low profile, you can easily lose the darn thing on your desk behind a day's mail, doesn't call attention to itself, doesn't run fast enough to require 9 cooling fans or exotic venting, just runs everything very nicely, no worries, no complaints, no flash, no fuss.

It's kind of the opposite of a Dual G5 powermac, where the entire design is one huge heatsink, or a Multi-CPU Wintel gamers machine, with Neon innards, windows, and enough fan power to allow the box to hover.

It's just a little box on the desk that does computer things without much fanfare. I'd want more horsepower if I were doing Photoshop or pre-press for a living, but for nearly all 'typical' uses, it's fine.

I bought it with stock RAM, and chose super-cheapo (but Mac-certified) RAM to upgrade to 512. In theory, any PC2700 or PC3200 RAM will work fine. In reality, it cost $3 more to get stuff that said 'Mac' on it, so I did.

The machine is almost always silent - occasionally, the fan will kick on, but it's not very loud. The CD/DVD drive is fairly noisy - much like one in a laptop.

Nearly everything you'd expect to be there for a normal *nix installation is present - the only major things are that you need to be aware of how the MacOS and the underlying OS work - occasionally you'll fix something on the command line to work a certain way, then go adjust the GUI tool that addresses the same area, and find that your earlier fix was wiped when the GUI re-wrote the configuration file. Similarly, you'll occasionally find, especially when installing major software (I'm especially thinking of my terrible experience installing SpamAssassin on OS X Server), that you'll need to do more things from root than you'd expect, as even Admin users have somewhat more-limited permissions than you'd expect. Sensible, as most Mac users are their machine's 'Admin', but not really ready for hard-core Unix - a bit like me. The upshot is that you'll occasionally find things where you actually have to go log in as root, instead of using sudo.

I find I spend about 95% of my total time administering machines on the Wintel boxes. About 4% of the remainder goes to my OS X Server machine, just because it's doing so many different things. My Powerbooks, PowerMacs and Mini seem to require no administration at all, other than clicking which updates I want when that box pops up once a week.

Possible negatives on the Mini - there do seem to be some video issues - some dim analog monitors, and some noise for certain DVI monitors. Seems specific to certain monitor/computer combinations - looks like the VGA signal strength of the Mini may be a bit below VESA specs in some cases. You can learn more at http://www.macintouch.com

The other negative of the mini is that it appears to be a real bear to do much more than install RAM. I used the unofficial 'Mini Opening Kit' - two 3" flexible putty knives, and had no difficulty opening it, and slapping the RAM in. Those who have ventured deeper say that it's a bit of a convoluted mess, with lots of different size/shape screws, and many layered pieces - not a surprise given how much they've crammed in, but a barrier to self-upgrades all the same.

Finally, it's perhaps just my mentality, but the machine is so darn low-priced that I have a hard time buying things to attach to it. I only went for 512 of RAM, because even with cheap RAM, $100+ for 1GB seemed like too high a % of the purchase price of the machine. I wouldn't hesitate normally, but somehow it just seemed wrong to spend 20% of the machine cost for a RAM upgrade. Same thing with the Bluetooth/Wifi upgrade - While they're not empirically expensive, next to a $499 machine, they somehow feel like a lot more than paying the same to upgrade a $1500 machine.

Long story short, I really like mine, it works great, and I love the fact that I don't have to bother running a virus or spyware checker at all.

oh boy /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif I'll chime in too. I've been doing windows/unix/mac development for 12 or 13 years now so I can fill in some of the other answers for you /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I'll start with what Ryan had to say cause he's got most of the good info there so far.

[ QUOTE ]
* Is that part about "Mac-specific memory REQUIRED" true, or can I simply buy any off-the-shelf DDR DIMM and slap it in there? I'd like a little bit more memory on the Mini, there's a minimum of 512MB for my computers and I'd rather it not hit the hard disk.

This was a little unclear when the Mini first came out but we have answers now. You can put in what ever memory you want, but you will have to open it with a putty knife. (I can send you the video on how if you get one, or even if you don't). Technically any RAM should work, but I would buy from a place that caters to Mac customers. Mac's, like ASUS motherboards, tend to be picky about the quality of RAM that is used. I tried 2 sticks of $200 ram in my PowerBook and it just wouldn't work even though spec for spec it should have. Put a stick of $230 ram in from a Mac place and it's been perfectly stable ever since.


[/ QUOTE ]

Memory doesn't have to be Apple's, but it does have to meet their spec. The firmware will not recognize a DIMM that is a lower speed than what they require, so don't skimp /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif You can put a full gig in there from anyone, just make sure the speed is correct and that the height will actually fit in the case, some of the bigger, less expensive dimms might be too large. Apple will have those specs somewhere.

[ QUOTE ]
* Would be especially interested in hearing from FreeBSD admins who run MacOS X (any hardware platform) about the differences, the quirks, and migration tips. I AM concerned about the underlying OS because I intend to drop to my shell prompt and push it to its limits apart from using it from the GUI. What you can/cannot do would be of interest.

[/ QUOTE ]

I haven't used freebsd in a while, but if info from a redhat admin is any use to you I can help /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif The differences between my redhat servers and my OSX machines is minimal. As far as day to day usage you won't notice any difference at all. For low level configuration OSX over takes the plumbing a little bit, for example editing the networking config files in /etc doesn't do anything on OSX. You have to make those changes using the netinfo manager program or from it's command line equivalents. Take the hosts file for example, Apple has left a comment behind in it that points you to where you have to go to add something to netinfo. But the entire "BSD Subsystem" is there, right where you would expect it to be. I use the command line a lot also.

[ QUOTE ]
* Is there the equivalent of the ports collection?

[/ QUOTE ]

You mean like a package manager? then Yes, what you're looking for is fink they have a huge list of common unix programs all ported and ready to be installed at the command line. I've used a large number of them. For those that don't have the developers package with all the compilers installed there are also binary distributions of most of those apps available as well if you do some searching on http://www.macupdate.com/ or http://www.versiontracker.com/ which are the 2 biggest mac software search engines that I use. But fink is excellent. I think it's actually written in Perl /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif Which along with python and php is installed by default as part of your bsd subsystem with every mac out there.

[ QUOTE ]
* Is there an MP3 player for the Mac that replicates the look and feel of Winamp? Sorry, just a personal quirk of mine.

[/ QUOTE ]

give iTunes a week and you'll never run anything else ever again. Thats my advise anyway /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[ QUOTE ]
* Firewall - yes, I feel more comfortable knowing that I have one and use one. Maybe because I've seen too much, but better to have it than not. Does /sbin/ipfw still work the way we have always expected it to? It would be great if it has, I could just bring my existing rulesets over.

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Apple's firewall and NAT system for sharing connections is all just running those same programs under the hood. They provide a very simple interface to configuring the firewall (which is turned off by default, but installed and can be activated by a single click in the sharing control panel) you can setup simple rules there, but if you're doing complicated things you will need to edit those config files manually. I don't know for sure that you won't have to edit some endpoint names or other such things but you should be able to bring a large portion of your rules, if not all of them, over with nothing more than a cut and paste. Be careful messing around in the UI though, it will quite possibly overwrite your manual changes as it's not expecting users to be messing in there. If you leave the firewall pane of the control panel alone, you'll be fine.

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* Do they provide installation media so end-users can wipe the hard disk and reinstall everything? Sure the OS may not require reinstallation, but sometimes, *I* might want to reinstall to reset everything to factory defaults because I don't trust myself and my mistakes.

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short answer YES. Most macs now ship with 2 different sets of disks. A sofware restore that can re-format the drive and install everything from an image on the DVD so that it goes back exactly to the state with all the software and config that it had when you took it out of the box, and a regular OS install disk from which you can re-partition or re-format drives as you like and then re-install the OS from scratch. Why dont all computers out there ship with this? I have no idea...

will post more in a little while /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif gotta go put the kids to bed...

EDIT1: for remote admin you can purchase Apple's remote administration package, it works great, but it's expensive. The VNC client for OSX works terrific. For sharing you can use the apple remote desktop server that is built in, you turn it on in the sharing pane and use any VNC client you like from any OS to connect to it. for a VNC client, I like one strangely named "Chicken of the VNC"

Some really good info in this thread /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

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Deanster said:
In fact, one of the things I like most about Macs in general, and the Mini in particular, is that they just do what you want. No muss, no fuss, no flashy melodrama. They just work.

It's kind of the opposite of a Dual G5 powermac, where the entire design is one huge heatsink, or a Multi-CPU Wintel gamers machine, with Neon innards, windows, and enough fan power to allow the box to hover.


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After so many years of caring for and feeding the darn things both at home, at work, and on vacation (everybody who found out I am in this line decided to get me to debug their ratware-infested home computer /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/str.gif), I really like things "that just work" - that is the most important feature! Glad to hear the performance level is adequate for all but the most cutting edge work. I don't sling huge images or multi-gigabyte videos, so that's ok.

I've seen the gamer machines you're referring to. Just because I am a flashaholic (and ex-computer-modder) I have to say that CCFLs are EMI/RF cannons operating inside the computer, they should use Luxeons instead /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif and you can do resistored drive with regulated +5VDC +/- 5% in computers safely. Add more resistance than necessary, to compensate for the Vf drop. It should be fine. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Silence is very welcome indeed. My main rig is quite an ordinary 2.66Ghz P4 that I put together with deliberately undervolted fans and other measures taken to silence it.

I ordered mine with the 512MB since their price was very close to the market price for a DIMM. Granted I don't get a spare 256MB (that I would have no idea what to do with) but I do get them to do the upgrade so if they break it, well, I'd better not find out /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


deanster/James: both, thanks for the tip not to edit the config files too much. Yup, I can imagine how it would break if the GUI is expecting one thing and you decided to do it your own way. Will drive more from the GUI.

James: Will definitely try iTunes after all that I've heard about it.

Great to hear the BSD system is still there, should I need to use it. And in case I DO mess up, the snapshot-restore-image CD sounds like a really great idea.

The tip about remote control is especially appreciated, so I don't even need to install additional software, because Apple already uses the VNC protocol - amazing! It really sounds like they got a LOT of things right this time round. I'm a long time VNC user and have all the clients sitting around, it would be great to be able to 'grab' my desktop directly. Part of the allure is that Apple has preloaded all the essentials for me - PHP, VNC, etc.etc. - I don't even have to do it myself.

It sounds like the beginning of what could be a really fun adventure.. now, if only the lead time wasn't so long!

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so I don't even need to install additional software, because Apple already uses the VNC protocol

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the latest version of the remote desktop client is built on VNC, it does more than that like sending files and messaging and stuff, but you can definitely connect to it via a regular VNC client. i'm not sure when this new version started being included with the system though, I"ve had to update the ones around here to do that. If you have to install one of your own I like the program called "share my desktop" it is meant really for house call type things where you don't want to leave your mom's computer running the server all the time, so you just tell her to launch this program which starts a temporary instance of the server and gives it a random password which it automatically puts on the clipboard so she can past it into an email to you and you can sign right back in. Works good! But it also has an option for installing the system wide, on all the time server as well.

And wasn't somebody talking about problems with the software update program? There is a completely command line version of that too. It's just called "softwareupdate" and you need to run it with the sudo command I think giving the root password to install anything, but it sends all info and update stats to the command line, so no GUI interface required to update the software if you don't have easy access to the machine. I've used it to update my mom's machine. Since she's still on a modem and VNC takes a large amount of bandwidth if you use the command line program instead it downloads a lot faster...

if you want to do websites with PHP on the non-server macos, you have to turn it on manually in the apache config files. That just means uncommenting 2 lines to load the module. It's pretty straightforward for anyone that has configured apache on any unix flavor. Lots of the Mac hints places have the instructions, but if it gives you trouble let me know and I'll post the instructions.

I've spent time, on and off over the last 2 years working with a company that produces home automation software for the Mac called XTension and we are loving the mac mini. We've always told people the best install is a somewhat less than brand new machine stuck in a closet. people are using the mini for this in record numbers! We're actually thinking of doing a bundling deal with a mac mini and the X10 interfaces and stuff there is such interest in it. (oh and my latest part of the project was all the web control stuff and motion sensor reports over the internet /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Which is an addon program to it that I have on my webpage HERE I have been having great fun with that recently. Lots of fun stuff to do with your Mac!

Anything else I should tell you about? Let me know!

Okay Saaby, James -- I've got to ask this for me and I'm hoping that it'll be useful for KevinL that he doesn't think I'm hijacking his thread...

KevinL -- Nix this if it's too tangential a question. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Can you folks point to instructions to using a VNC client to connect to a Mac that has the Apple Remote Desktop turned on in the Sharing preferences? Is that even the way to do it? I'm hoping it'd connect fairly well. I've tried OSXVnc & as the host and "Chicken of the VNC" as client and it works okay just painfully slow. And besides, if ARA is integrated to the OS and supports VNC, well, I might as well use that. (Okay, perhaps the host/client names should be technically the other way around. Kinda ambiguous but I'm sure you get the idea.)

Say I've got "Chicken of the VNC" on another Mac or some other VNC viewer on a Wintel or Linux machine. Is there a site that tells me the port to set up, etc? Or can either of you elaborate?

Hard drive partioning may or may not be necessary now, but it was at one time. This was around the time of the return of Steve Jobs and when many were questioning if Apple would remain in business.

The problem was that many of the peripherial makers were not writing software to support the Mac platform. I guess they thought the market share was too small and that Apple would crumble. So, they did not write the software that would run printers or scanners, etc..

When Apple changed to new OS's, it was difficult to find any peripherial that would work. So, hard drive partioning was a must. Especially if one upgraded to a newer Mac OS that had absolutely no software support from the secondary market.

When Apple switched to the new OSX platform that first began to use the Unix shell, it was again necessary. The secondary market played a wait and see approach to Apple's viability. There was also a lag time between the new OS and those that began to write software that supported the peripherial hardware. Several years.

With the transition from Mac Classic to OSX, it was again necessary to partition the hard drive. Not a must, but still the lag of supporting secondary software. The old second party software would have to be replaced with a large financial investment without hard drive partitioning.

Partitioning the HD is not a burden - it is a largely ignored lifesaver, in many respects, by the average Mac user.

HDP is very easy. There is an icon that one just slides the amount of space to be allocated for each HDP.

I recently tried to do this for a Windoze user and I think that it does not work. It seems that MS just builds on or adds a new space on the HD for new OS upgrades.

Who even wants to use or attempt to relate to a exe\bat:/drive:c...? Why continue to use commands that are still entrenched in the arachaic basic/fortran/DOS languages? Because BG owns those languages. Paid $15,000 for one - originally. I think the economic term is called "profit maximization" - perpetually.

HDP will also allow one to log in under a different User Name. On the rare occurence of a hard drive or software glitch, one may log in under the different User Name to resolve the original problem. Thus, one may always be able to make use of a machine that was designed to be used. Used with ease. Ease of use. Functional.

HDP also will allow one to use an older OS if that software is no longer supported, written, or continued.

Want a supercomputer?

http://exodus.physics.ucla.edu/appleseed/appleseed.html

Check the "benchmarks" link. Faster than a Cray Supercomputer that costed tens of millions of dollars. You may have your own supercompter for the price of several thousand dollars. With the MacMini, one may have a two-computer cluster supercomputer for $998. Of course, the G4 chip achieved this feat by itself. The twin G5 chips...in a cluster...a super-duper-supercomputer?

Can Windoze do that?

Fin