L4 versus L2

Hi,
I am selling my L4 so that I can get an L2. It would replace the L4 mainly for camping. Is it worth it? Could someone please post a beamshot comparison between the beams of the L4 and the high-stage on the L2?
Thanks!
-Ian

most ppl complain about the lenght of the L2 cause its too long for EDC. if you like the size of the L4 maybe you like to invest in some Pila batteries and a tailcap from McGizmo that will give you the same function of the L2, a high (65lumens) and low (whatever you choose) option. you'll lose the clicky function though. the L2 cant take Pilas.
personaly i like the L2 better. i really dont care that it cant take Pilas and the size doesnt bother me. the L2 is brighter (100 lumens instead of 65 for L4) and has a longer pocket clip which i find it better then a short one. the L2 is my favourite EDC and camping light.

edit. sorry i dont have beam shots but i can post them up after i get my friends L4 for pics. might be a day or 2 though...

I'm not sure the L2 is really brighter by much than the L4, although I don't have an L2.

I recall on this board recently someone pointed out that SF has re-measured lumen output and re-posted it for various lights.

I think the L2 isn't 100 lumens, but more like 65, matching the L4. And why would it be much different anyway? The L2 is principally different in that it has a regulated low output, but otherwise how different is it from the L2?

I love the L4 with the McGizmo switch. The size is just so right.

It is what I reach for all day every day. I use the 22ohm resistor and it is plenty bright most of the time, but when you push harder or turn the cap some additional amount, man, does this thing light up the world!

The only issue I have with it is that you really have to press too hard to get the high setting. It is okay momentarily but you will have to use the twistie for anything but a quick 2 second burst of light here or there. There are some fixes for this but I haven't tried them as I am too chicken to monkey with it. I purchased the Aleph standard switch turnkey from Wayne dat2zip (The LED Guy, Sandwich Shoppe).

I've heard many people say that the L2 is brighter than the L4. I personally have neither..

-tom

I have both and they both have a place. I love the L4 for being small (mine is really a KL4 on a VG FB2). The only problem I have re the L2 is the beam can be awful and this seems to be common.
I'm on my second L2 and this one has also been returned to SF so they can get rid of the big brown centre where the hotspot should be.Other folk have posted about green tinges too.
My KL4 is brighter than this one,but the last one I had (L2) was brighter than the L4. I don't think there's alot in it.I would doubt it is 100 lumens.
The L2 IS bigger but I have big hands so...
I love the Hi/Lo feature,but it needs a bit of care not to leave the switch so it will activate in your bag/pocket,has to be screwed all the way out or dead cells result!
The bottom line is,how you carry it,what it's for,does size matter?
HTH (I know it was a bit inconclusive!) Phil. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[ QUOTE ]
cognitivefun said:
I'm not sure the L2 is really brighter by much than the L4, although I don't have an L2.

I recall on this board recently someone pointed out that SF has re-measured lumen output and re-posted it for various lights.

I think the L2 isn't 100 lumens, but more like 65, matching the L4. And why would it be much different anyway? The L2 is principally different in that it has a regulated low output, but otherwise how different is it from the L2?


[/ QUOTE ]

Looks like the SureFire site is pretty out of date (LED Lights Comparison Chart) when it comes to the L1.
But the L2 and L4 are clearly shown to be different in their maximum outputs. 100 Lumens for the L2, and 65 for the L4. Given that neither of these lights has undergone a substantial change (like the L1), there's little reason to question these figures, is there?

I wouldn't do this. I have and really like my L2. I think it's a wonderful light, and I don't think it's too long, unless you want to EDC it in the pocket of a pair of slacks. (I think it is just slightly too long for that, but it fits fine in a shirt pocket or in cargo pants.)

However - since you've already got the L4, get a McE2S switch for it and then you'll have a two level light almost as functional as an L2. (It will lack regulation on the low level - not the end of the world.) This is liable to be cheaper than the transaction you are planning.

The reason I feel you shouldn't do this is that the reason to get an L2 is NOT it's high beam. No, the reason to get an L2 is the low beam. Most people who really like the L2 use it on "low" most of the time, boosting to "high" when they really need a lot of light. That's definitely how I use it. Personally, if someone were going to buy both lights, I'd generally recommend the L2 over the L4, unless they just don't need the "low" setting. For camping, the L2 seems more useful to me.

But you've already got the L4, and if you add a McGizmo switch to it, you've pretty much got the same functionality as the L2. I mean, if money's no object to you (and it isn't for some), then sure, the L2 is great, go for it. But this seems like an expensive way to get a regulated "low" setting. (If you've found folks who you can swap with for your L4 for less than a McE2S, then never mind - make the trade.)

If you really want your light to be brighter, maybe get one of the modders here to swap out the LED with a better binned Lux V? Or heck, wait a while - LED technology continues to advance, I suspect SF will eventually release a brighter, more efficient replacement for the KL4.

I'll second what MrBenchmark said. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

but could someone prove to me that the L2 is actually significantly brighter, on high, (35 lumens more) than the L4. Could any of you please post a beamshot comparison so that I know that the L2 is 100 lumens?
Thanks!

-Ian

I wouldn't seehow you coulg catagorize it as being significantly brighter. The extra 20lumens (assuming the 80 rather than 65 based on tests here) spread over the same area would not be much more noticable wall hunting. It will just extend the usable distance further.

20 lumens difference is not that drastic with the radiation pattern of the l2/l4 reflector. I know that if I shine the U2 and L2 on the same spot, it isn't drastic compared to the U2 alone. That is approx double in output but given the spread of the L2 beam, it is not striking.


BTW, look at the overall output at flashlightreviews.com

Total output of L2 is 89 vs and L4 is 58

Major difference....

(Output = lumens = 'brightness') The L2 is rated at 100 lumens by Surefire, while the L4 is rated at 65. Does the L2 really exert that much light compared to the 65 lumens of the L4 (100 to 65)? yes or no. proof: an actual beamshot comparison please... I need a credible comparison between the two.
Thanks.

-Ian

I think what everybody is saying is that to a calibrated machine, yes it exerts quite bit more light. To the average idiot's human eye then the difference in the way that light is perceived or able to be utilized doesn't really matter one whit between the two.

I have an L2 and have seen an L4. The L2 seems slightly brighter but either light on high would do the others job with perceptively no difference to my average idiot eyes. I do know that in a ceiling bounce both will light up a room like you flipped on a flourescent light.

Chris

[ QUOTE ]
Surefire_Rocks said:
(Output = lumens = 'brightness') The L2 is rated at 100 lumens by Surefire, while the L4 is rated at 65. Does the L2 really exert that much light compared to the 65 lumens of the L4 (100 to 65)? yes or no. proof: an actual beamshot comparison please... I need a credible comparison between the two.
Thanks.

-Ian

[/ QUOTE ]

Ian, Output = lumens = 'brightness' is not correct.

If it were then my u2

lux= 'brightness'. lumens is just the amount of light. Basically we are talking photons density (lux) vs number of photons (lumens). Is a 100watt houshold light bulb brighter than a Surefire M6 HOLA? No. It is 1200lumens but spread over a much greater pattern and thus its intensity, ie brightness, isn't comparable.

A beamshot will not show you what you want to see. It is a diffuse field and not something that will show on a sidebyside as you want it to. Sorry and no need to be testy.

Look, how about not replying to any posts unless your input is relevant and wanted. Anyway, if you took a 100Watt household light and concentrated the light to a beam as wide as the M6 at maximum efficiency, its 'brightness' (lumenous intensity), and lux would exceed that of the M6. Therefore, output (lumens) can legitimately be called 'brightness'.

Anyway, I am looking for a beamshot comparison between the L4 and L2, as stated earlier, since it would improve my limited insight on why the L2 is rated as 35 lumens brighter than the L4.

Yeah, to really answer this question you need the fellow with the integrating sphere in the other thread to measure them both. Even so, I'd speculate that it will be hard to precisely answer this question because of the variance of the LEDs themselves. I'm not sure swapping the lights is worth it for what's probably at best a 20-30% difference in output. It's pretty hard to visually differentiate point sources of light that vary by this much, much less something as diffuse as the beam of an L2 or L4. It may be worth pointing out that astronomers, who are somewhat concerned with the brightness of all manner of things, use a logarithmic scale to measure the brightness of objects. (5 orders of magnitude = 100X difference in brightness). A single magnitude of difference is > 2X.

If you were comparing an L4 with the (mythical) L20 (an L2 with new more powerful LED) and the L20 got 130-165 lumens of output, I'd think you had a point about wanting to swap. But hey, that's just my uninformed opinion... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Seriously, if I were in your shoes, I'd buy the tailcap and some pilas and enjoy the advantages in form-factor the L4 offers. The runtime of the L2 on high is not fantastic, anyway. And someday when you can update your L4 with a KL40 from surefire, I'm sure you'll have the last laugh over me and my little L2. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif (I have no idea about SF's future plans, nor any insight in to them. Still, they seem to update the "E" series body line of lights from time to time, so it doesn't seem completely unbelievable that they'll improve the KL4 over time.)

If I were going for brighter, but still LED, I'd consider a U2 or an L6, anyway... (or go incand.)

Best of luck!

I've been looking into both lights. But from what I read the beams on both lights are more of a "medium" spot and not a tight "hot spot" - which I prefer. I wish I could get my hands on one to see how the beam looks in person.

Re:

I think it needs to be mentioned that almost all L4 exceed 65 lumens with ease. I would guess most L4's are in the range of 80-100 lumens. I havent ever tested a L2 vs a L4, but it looks to me most L2s are withing 20 or so lumens of the advertised 100s.

So in conculsion if you get a good L4 and a bad L2, the L4 may accually be brighter, but if you get a bad L4, and a good L2, the L2 will blow it away.

[ QUOTE ]
Surefire_Rocks said:
Look, how about not replying to any posts unless your input is relevant and wanted. Anyway, if you took a 100Watt household light and concentrated the light to a beam as wide as the M6 at maximum efficiency, its 'brightness' (lumenous intensity), and lux would exceed that of the M6. Therefore, output (lumens) can legitimately be called 'brightness'.

[/ QUOTE ]


I'm sorry but you must be a child so I will act the adult here. So if you would like to learn something you might listen.

I'm only trying to give you insight on what you seek based on my experience with the lights in question. If you don't like the answer fine but the L4 is not driven as hard as the L2 so even with the LuxLotto, you still will typically have an output greater from the L2.

Even with a beamshot, the difference of the worstcase wouldn't be noticed unless you were at the outskirts of the L4 range. If you do notice something, it will most likely be the result of color temps not intensity. A whiter light is seen as being brighter even though output might be the same. Our eyes are no more linear than our ears. That is why we have scales to normalize the freq response of SPL. We don't have the same with lights...

Now as for the lumens 100w vs m6. Yeah if you could project the 100w into the same area you would have greater measured brighteness but you also have a reflector the size large mixing bowl.

Lets leave the name calling and such out okay
In public is not the appropriate environment for such behaviour

Thanks