our energy problems are solved
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greenLED
Flashaholic
"The Fuelless Gravity Motor is what I invented before I discovered the Fuelless Engine!"
OK, that's it! I patented Perpetual Movement before he did, I'm gonna sue for patent infringement /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crackup.gif
OK, that's it! I patented Perpetual Movement before he did, I'm gonna sue for patent infringement /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crackup.gif
Leeoniya
Enlightened
When buttered toast is dropped it usually lands buttered side down and when a cat falls it usually lands on it's feet. So if you strap a piece of buttered toast to a cat's back what happens when the cat falls off of something? Will the cat land on it's feet defeating the buttered toast theory or will the toast land buttered side down defeating the cat landing theory??
i say it will spin...hovering in mid air unable to decide what the hell to do...and create some sort of perpetual motion which can surely be harnessed more readily than mining natural resources or destroying habitats with logging or hydroelectric dam construction.
i also have plans for a 20,000 gerbil power engine.
i have the toast...now where's shnookums to test out the theory?
snookums!!!!
i say it will spin...hovering in mid air unable to decide what the hell to do...and create some sort of perpetual motion which can surely be harnessed more readily than mining natural resources or destroying habitats with logging or hydroelectric dam construction.
i also have plans for a 20,000 gerbil power engine.
i have the toast...now where's shnookums to test out the theory?
snookums!!!!
14C
Enlightened
If you take the magnets from a microwave oven magnetron and put them in the proper place on your car engine you can get over 100 miles per gallon and the exhaust fumes smell like roses.
KevinL
Flashlight Enthusiast
I hear they have stickers that can do better, who needs magnets... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
The stickers are also supposed to increase horsepower by 5-10hp for every sticker you paste /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hahaha.gif
The stickers are also supposed to increase horsepower by 5-10hp for every sticker you paste /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hahaha.gif
James S
Flashlight Enthusiast
I invented an infinite energy device! it's so simple too, it's amazing that the vast government/corporate conspiracy has kept anyone from realizing it on a bigger scale.
It's just a hydro-electric plant, but requires no river! And it creates lots of jobs in whatever community decides to build it too as you need lots of people to carry the buckets back up to the top...
It's just a hydro-electric plant, but requires no river! And it creates lots of jobs in whatever community decides to build it too as you need lots of people to carry the buckets back up to the top...
teststrips
Enlightened
actually this water theory does indeed work, but has some major limitations to hurdle over b4 it'll become even close to public. This $20 dollar item def won't get you even close to what you need though.
Baisicaly how it works is you take distilled water (h2o) and separate the hydrogen from the oxygen. The oxygen is semi-worthless in this state, so you release it into the air, the hydrogen would then be stored in some sort of storage tank. Then when you need power you use a combining device to put the hydrogen and oxygen back together, which creates as much energy as it took to separate it in the first place.
The holding tank baisically becomes a battery
The combining device is what you've probably heard refered to as a "fuel cell"
Designers are looking into solar powered houses that would store energy at high points in the day, then use the stored hydrogen to produce energy at night.
There are some major problems with this therory though that haven't yet been overcome. Fuel cells are big/very expensive, and are not completely efficent.
Stored hydrogen is pretty dangerous to have around until a proper container is devised - you could cool it to make it liquid hydrogen, but that also requires power expendature, making the overall system less efficient.
I've heard rumers that laptops will run off of hydrogen "fuel cells" within 10 years, and a "recharge" will take seconds to refill the holding tank.
I believe cars will also be run off of electricity generated by hydrogen fuel cells, but that would require a MAJOR infrastructure change as you can't buy hydrogen very many places.
Baisicaly how it works is you take distilled water (h2o) and separate the hydrogen from the oxygen. The oxygen is semi-worthless in this state, so you release it into the air, the hydrogen would then be stored in some sort of storage tank. Then when you need power you use a combining device to put the hydrogen and oxygen back together, which creates as much energy as it took to separate it in the first place.
The holding tank baisically becomes a battery
The combining device is what you've probably heard refered to as a "fuel cell"
Designers are looking into solar powered houses that would store energy at high points in the day, then use the stored hydrogen to produce energy at night.
There are some major problems with this therory though that haven't yet been overcome. Fuel cells are big/very expensive, and are not completely efficent.
Stored hydrogen is pretty dangerous to have around until a proper container is devised - you could cool it to make it liquid hydrogen, but that also requires power expendature, making the overall system less efficient.
I've heard rumers that laptops will run off of hydrogen "fuel cells" within 10 years, and a "recharge" will take seconds to refill the holding tank.
I believe cars will also be run off of electricity generated by hydrogen fuel cells, but that would require a MAJOR infrastructure change as you can't buy hydrogen very many places.
teststrips
Enlightened
here's a link to a GOVERMENT website that'll give you more details.
http://www.eere.energy.gov/hydrogenandfuelcells/
http://www.eere.energy.gov/hydrogenandfuelcells/
kongfuchicken
Flashlight Enthusiast
That's the funniest website I've been on for a while! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crackup.gif
Bradlee
Enlightened
Like teststrips says, this process is only the electrolysis of water. Its convenient that the site doesn't mention that you would need distilled water (expensive) since electrolyzing tap water produces disolved chlorine gas /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif.
Much more energy would be needed to obtain the hydrogen and oxygen than would be produced by using them as fuel.
Much more energy would be needed to obtain the hydrogen and oxygen than would be produced by using them as fuel.
idleprocess
Flashaholic
Three other laws of thermodynamics to keep in mind whenever you hear about yet another "free energy" scheme:
1 You can't win
2 You can't break even
3 You can't leave the game
1 You can't win
2 You can't break even
3 You can't leave the game
14C
Enlightened
OR:
The British scientist and author C.P. Snow had an excellent way of remembering the three laws (ed.: of Thermodynamics):
You cannot win (that is, you cannot get something for nothing, because matter and energy are conserved).
You cannot break even (you cannot return to the same energy state, because there is always an increase in disorder; entropy always increases).
You cannot get out of the game (because absolute zero is unattainable).
I will add, as Hawking has theorized: the total energy of the Universe is zero.
From the macroscopic to every day life there is no such thing as free energy...whatever you get comes from elsewhere. Even in the quantum world of zero point energy there is no free lunch.
Now, having said all that.....
How, exactly, do you split water into hydrogen and oxygen without some eneergy source?
Wish it?
The British scientist and author C.P. Snow had an excellent way of remembering the three laws (ed.: of Thermodynamics):
You cannot win (that is, you cannot get something for nothing, because matter and energy are conserved).
You cannot break even (you cannot return to the same energy state, because there is always an increase in disorder; entropy always increases).
You cannot get out of the game (because absolute zero is unattainable).
I will add, as Hawking has theorized: the total energy of the Universe is zero.
From the macroscopic to every day life there is no such thing as free energy...whatever you get comes from elsewhere. Even in the quantum world of zero point energy there is no free lunch.
Now, having said all that.....
How, exactly, do you split water into hydrogen and oxygen without some eneergy source?
Wish it?
teststrips
Enlightened
[ QUOTE ]
14C said:
How, exactly, do you split water into hydrogen and oxygen without some eneergy source?
[/ QUOTE ]
I never mentioned spliting without an energy source... I suggested a solar panal array being the source of energy, and the hydrogen as simply a way to store the energy... sort of like a battery. People are currently able to run completely off of solar cells with lead acid batteries as the storage medium, but those batteries have to be replaced often as they don't like having low capacity and being worked hard.
Depending on the longevity of fuel cells, they could become a better choice.
14C said:
How, exactly, do you split water into hydrogen and oxygen without some eneergy source?
[/ QUOTE ]
I never mentioned spliting without an energy source... I suggested a solar panal array being the source of energy, and the hydrogen as simply a way to store the energy... sort of like a battery. People are currently able to run completely off of solar cells with lead acid batteries as the storage medium, but those batteries have to be replaced often as they don't like having low capacity and being worked hard.
Depending on the longevity of fuel cells, they could become a better choice.
iirc, methanol could be used as a source of hydrogen.
An I read in the paper about some guy in the south that got a fuel cell working off of red wine, and could use any alcohol source. If alcohol is brought into the picture, the distillery might be fired up again /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif
An I read in the paper about some guy in the south that got a fuel cell working off of red wine, and could use any alcohol source. If alcohol is brought into the picture, the distillery might be fired up again /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif
TRC
Newly Enlightened
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2005
- Messages
- 124
[ QUOTE ]
teststrips said:
actually this water theory does indeed work, but has some major limitations to hurdle over b4 it'll become even close to public. This $20 dollar item def won't get you even close to what you need though.
Baisicaly how it works is you take distilled water (h2o) and separate the hydrogen from the oxygen. The oxygen is semi-worthless in this state, so you release it into the air, the hydrogen would then be stored in some sort of storage tank. Then when you need power you use a combining device to put the hydrogen and oxygen back together, which creates as much energy as it took to separate it in the first place.
The holding tank baisically becomes a battery
The combining device is what you've probably heard refered to as a "fuel cell"
Designers are looking into solar powered houses that would store energy at high points in the day, then use the stored hydrogen to produce energy at night.
There are some major problems with this therory though that haven't yet been overcome. Fuel cells are big/very expensive, and are not completely efficent.
Stored hydrogen is pretty dangerous to have around until a proper container is devised - you could cool it to make it liquid hydrogen, but that also requires power expendature, making the overall system less efficient.
I've heard rumers that laptops will run off of hydrogen "fuel cells" within 10 years, and a "recharge" will take seconds to refill the holding tank.
I believe cars will also be run off of electricity generated by hydrogen fuel cells, but that would require a MAJOR infrastructure change as you can't buy hydrogen very many places.
[/ QUOTE ]
The problem is: it takes far more energy to break the hydrogen-oxygen bond, and transport and store the hydrogen, than than you get when you recombine it with oxygen. Just like burning ethanol in cars. it takes more energy to produce a gallon of ethanol (think farming the corn, fertilizing it, using pesticides on it, harvesting it, transporting it to the ethanol refinery, fermenting it, distilling it to 200 proof (simple distillation only yeilds 190 proof, or 95% ethanol, so you have to take extra steps here) etc., etc. etc.
Basically, you are turning food into fuel. Since the Republicans have drasticaly cut funding for world-wide family planning (look it up) guess what we are soon going to have a world wide shortage of? Aside form oil, that is....? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
teststrips said:
actually this water theory does indeed work, but has some major limitations to hurdle over b4 it'll become even close to public. This $20 dollar item def won't get you even close to what you need though.
Baisicaly how it works is you take distilled water (h2o) and separate the hydrogen from the oxygen. The oxygen is semi-worthless in this state, so you release it into the air, the hydrogen would then be stored in some sort of storage tank. Then when you need power you use a combining device to put the hydrogen and oxygen back together, which creates as much energy as it took to separate it in the first place.
The holding tank baisically becomes a battery
The combining device is what you've probably heard refered to as a "fuel cell"
Designers are looking into solar powered houses that would store energy at high points in the day, then use the stored hydrogen to produce energy at night.
There are some major problems with this therory though that haven't yet been overcome. Fuel cells are big/very expensive, and are not completely efficent.
Stored hydrogen is pretty dangerous to have around until a proper container is devised - you could cool it to make it liquid hydrogen, but that also requires power expendature, making the overall system less efficient.
I've heard rumers that laptops will run off of hydrogen "fuel cells" within 10 years, and a "recharge" will take seconds to refill the holding tank.
I believe cars will also be run off of electricity generated by hydrogen fuel cells, but that would require a MAJOR infrastructure change as you can't buy hydrogen very many places.
[/ QUOTE ]
The problem is: it takes far more energy to break the hydrogen-oxygen bond, and transport and store the hydrogen, than than you get when you recombine it with oxygen. Just like burning ethanol in cars. it takes more energy to produce a gallon of ethanol (think farming the corn, fertilizing it, using pesticides on it, harvesting it, transporting it to the ethanol refinery, fermenting it, distilling it to 200 proof (simple distillation only yeilds 190 proof, or 95% ethanol, so you have to take extra steps here) etc., etc. etc.
Basically, you are turning food into fuel. Since the Republicans have drasticaly cut funding for world-wide family planning (look it up) guess what we are soon going to have a world wide shortage of? Aside form oil, that is....? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
If you look up the watercar group on yahoo, they are working on doing it on the fly. You car makes way more power than needed and it could easily spare some to make hydrogen, then burn off of it.
ANy coast to coast am listeners know about tom van bearden and his over unit stuff. Lights that run for 25 years and generators that make 25kv off of 4 deep cycle batteries for several years.
TOdate, no one has sent art bell a sample working over unity device or machine. ALthough Richard Hoagland claims a magnet is a perfect example of one.
ANy coast to coast am listeners know about tom van bearden and his over unit stuff. Lights that run for 25 years and generators that make 25kv off of 4 deep cycle batteries for several years.
TOdate, no one has sent art bell a sample working over unity device or machine. ALthough Richard Hoagland claims a magnet is a perfect example of one.
