Camcorder suggestion
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Uh - I have a like-new Panasonic VDR-M30 (palm-sized camcorder that records directly to a mini-DVD inside) that I used during ONE TRIP (I promise!) two years ago and never used again, that I'd sell for cheap. Just got too many camcorders (three!) since our daughter was born...sheesh.
Anyway there are none for sale on e-bay (went to check for current used prices) but here're some price-comparison links:
http://www.nextag.com/Panasonic-VDR-M30-Digital--zz57177278z0znz1zm30_panasonic_vdrzB9az2--COMPARE-PRICES-html
http://www.shopcartusa.com/Product/VDRM30/Electronics~TV_Video~Camcorders/Panasonic_Palmcorder_VDR-M30/
http://www.windycitycomputers.com/CAMCORDERS/PANASONIC_VDR-M30.htm
It takes basic still pictures too, either into the DVD or an SD card that it can also accept, and I am sure that if you do a search there are many more links you can also check. Just want to get rid of it since I bought a Panasonic micro-camcorder that records directly to SD cards and is about the size of a couple of decks of cards sandwiched together.
Anyway there are none for sale on e-bay (went to check for current used prices) but here're some price-comparison links:
http://www.nextag.com/Panasonic-VDR-M30-Digital--zz57177278z0znz1zm30_panasonic_vdrzB9az2--COMPARE-PRICES-html
http://www.shopcartusa.com/Product/VDRM30/Electronics~TV_Video~Camcorders/Panasonic_Palmcorder_VDR-M30/
http://www.windycitycomputers.com/CAMCORDERS/PANASONIC_VDR-M30.htm
It takes basic still pictures too, either into the DVD or an SD card that it can also accept, and I am sure that if you do a search there are many more links you can also check. Just want to get rid of it since I bought a Panasonic micro-camcorder that records directly to SD cards and is about the size of a couple of decks of cards sandwiched together.
The_LED_Museum
*Retired*
I have a very old Zenith video camera...the word "camcorder" was coined by Sony, along with the term "cassette corder".
Unfortunately, I have no recommendations on "camcorders" for you. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jpshakehead.gif
Unfortunately, I have no recommendations on "camcorders" for you. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jpshakehead.gif
Bright Scouter
Enlightened
All personal opinions here,,,
The camcorders that record to disc right now are just too new in their lifecycle. Too short of a recording time, too expensive media and too expensive in general. I still prefer the mini-dv tapes. You can dump them to your computer and either dupe them to dvd or cd, or edit first, then dup it.
Brands, I've had Canon, Sony and Nikon. I prefer the Canon. Whichever you get, make sure it has an optical image stabilizer instead of a digital. Works much better. I also prefer the lenses that Canon uses.
Pickups, I assume you are talking about getting a one ccd camera. Some of the high end models have three, one for each color. Much better, but much more expensive. If you are willing to pay big bucks, look into that also.
Zooms, Make sure the camera has a good optical zoom. If you use the digital zoom feature to get to the high end of the xoom range, quality suffers. If you try to zoom in too close, you will have to have it mounted on a tripod and also hope your subject stays pretty still.
Those are the biggies to me anyway.
The camcorders that record to disc right now are just too new in their lifecycle. Too short of a recording time, too expensive media and too expensive in general. I still prefer the mini-dv tapes. You can dump them to your computer and either dupe them to dvd or cd, or edit first, then dup it.
Brands, I've had Canon, Sony and Nikon. I prefer the Canon. Whichever you get, make sure it has an optical image stabilizer instead of a digital. Works much better. I also prefer the lenses that Canon uses.
Pickups, I assume you are talking about getting a one ccd camera. Some of the high end models have three, one for each color. Much better, but much more expensive. If you are willing to pay big bucks, look into that also.
Zooms, Make sure the camera has a good optical zoom. If you use the digital zoom feature to get to the high end of the xoom range, quality suffers. If you try to zoom in too close, you will have to have it mounted on a tripod and also hope your subject stays pretty still.
Those are the biggies to me anyway.
This article is out of date but still a good place to get started:
http://bealecorner.com/trv900/new2video.html
http://bealecorner.com/trv900/new2video.html
Hmm, that Everio is kind of interesting. I wonder why noone makes a camcorder that burns full sized DVD's. It wouldn't be that much bigger than those mini-DVD versions. Portable CD players are very popular, so people don't think the size is excessive.
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tiktok 22 said:
Here is the one I'm drooling after:
JVC Everio GZ-MC200
[/ QUOTE ]
How about GZ-MC500?
-john
tiktok 22 said:
Here is the one I'm drooling after:
JVC Everio GZ-MC200
[/ QUOTE ]
How about GZ-MC500?
-john
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paulr said:
I wonder why noone makes a camcorder that burns full sized DVD's.
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DCR-DVD201
Panasonic VDR-M70
Hitachi DZ-MV580A
Oh, Paulr, if you mean the "GZ-MC" models, those aren't DVD based. At least the GZ-MC500 is a microdrive. I think the idea is you'd hook it up to your computer with Firewire, transfer the video there and then burn it to a DVD.
-john
paulr said:
I wonder why noone makes a camcorder that burns full sized DVD's.
[/ QUOTE ]
DCR-DVD201
Panasonic VDR-M70
Hitachi DZ-MV580A
Oh, Paulr, if you mean the "GZ-MC" models, those aren't DVD based. At least the GZ-MC500 is a microdrive. I think the idea is you'd hook it up to your computer with Firewire, transfer the video there and then burn it to a DVD.
-john
By a full sized DVD camcorder I mean one that records to normal 5 inch DVD-R discs like computer DVD-R burners use. All the DVD camcorders I know of use those little 3 inch discs that give a fraction of the recording time and cost a lot more per minute.
We'll talk after you fit a normal DVD into a 3.5" inch (i.e. normal) floppy drive (it should fit if it's 3.5").
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John N said:
Um? I think DVDs are 3.5". The last media that was around 5" were the *old* floppy drives.
-john
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John N said:
Um? I think DVDs are 3.5". The last media that was around 5" were the *old* floppy drives.
-john
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drizzle
Enlightened
Okay, I learned something today (thank you google). DVD's are called DVD's whether they are the "normal" size or the "mini" size. I haven't taken the plunge on a camcorder yet so the smaller size DVD's are not something I've really paid any attention to before now.
According to this site the standard sizes are 12 cm (~4.72 in) and 8 cm (~3.14 in). The 12 cm size is the common one that you get when you buy or rent a movie on DVD. The 8 cm size is the common one for camcorders.
Now, getting back to the original question, are there camcorders out there that record on 12 cm disks?
According to this site the standard sizes are 12 cm (~4.72 in) and 8 cm (~3.14 in). The 12 cm size is the common one that you get when you buy or rent a movie on DVD. The 8 cm size is the common one for camcorders.
Now, getting back to the original question, are there camcorders out there that record on 12 cm disks?
12 cm is what one normally thinks of as DVD's. They are the same size as CD's (compact discs as used in computers and music) and most DVD players and readers/burners can also play CD's. The 8cm discs are "mini" dvd's and there are similarly mini-CD's the same size.
Hey guys, I currently work at a youth media studio. We're no big production house, and all our work is done on MiniDV. Here's my crash course on camera buying.
Around $500
Go with a high end Canon ZR or an Optura. These are great little workhorse cameras. You'll hear bad things about noise in low light, but they're no worse than any other $500 camera. Sony has some tempting offerings, but the Sony's use a touch screen. Good luck adjusting settings in the sunlight where the fold-out LCD washes out. Good luck adjusting any settings while recording without making your footage uselessly shaky.
If you can step up to about $900 can the Canon Optura Xi with optical image stabilization is the way to go. Optical image stabilization works, and to get it at $900 is pretty good!
If you can step up to about $1500 than Panasonic makes some 3CCD consumer models. 3CCD is going to give you better color reproduction and better video quality, especially in low light.
That's it as far as small cameras go. The only other camera I would reccomend for under $65,000 is the Panasonic DVX-100 ($3099). I've used this back to back with the Canon GL2 and XL1 as well as the Sony VX2000 and it's simply an amazing camera. The big thing about it is it's ability to shoot in 24P mode, and that's pretty impressive, but the camera itself is solid and shoots just as well in more traditional shooting modes. I realize this is not the level of camera you're looking for, but it's an awesome camera and I can't talk about cameras without mentioning it!
Around $500
Go with a high end Canon ZR or an Optura. These are great little workhorse cameras. You'll hear bad things about noise in low light, but they're no worse than any other $500 camera. Sony has some tempting offerings, but the Sony's use a touch screen. Good luck adjusting settings in the sunlight where the fold-out LCD washes out. Good luck adjusting any settings while recording without making your footage uselessly shaky.
If you can step up to about $900 can the Canon Optura Xi with optical image stabilization is the way to go. Optical image stabilization works, and to get it at $900 is pretty good!
If you can step up to about $1500 than Panasonic makes some 3CCD consumer models. 3CCD is going to give you better color reproduction and better video quality, especially in low light.
That's it as far as small cameras go. The only other camera I would reccomend for under $65,000 is the Panasonic DVX-100 ($3099). I've used this back to back with the Canon GL2 and XL1 as well as the Sony VX2000 and it's simply an amazing camera. The big thing about it is it's ability to shoot in 24P mode, and that's pretty impressive, but the camera itself is solid and shoots just as well in more traditional shooting modes. I realize this is not the level of camera you're looking for, but it's an awesome camera and I can't talk about cameras without mentioning it!
PS -- DVD burning cameras are NOT the way to go, IIHO. MiniDV is.
Digital, nonlinear editing is where it's at. If you've been frustrated with video editing in the past, it's because you haven't had DV. The DVD burning cameras burn MPEG2 to the DVD. This is a lossy format and it's hard to rip MPEG2 back to DV stream for editing. MiniDV tapes are tiny, cheap, and digital video editing is a kick.
These are the tapes I use. It's been said that you can use cheap media for digital since it's digital, but just the opposite is true! You use a cheap VHS tape and you get a noisy picture. You use a cheap MiniDV tape and you get total signal dropout. It's all or nothing.
Digital, nonlinear editing is where it's at. If you've been frustrated with video editing in the past, it's because you haven't had DV. The DVD burning cameras burn MPEG2 to the DVD. This is a lossy format and it's hard to rip MPEG2 back to DV stream for editing. MiniDV tapes are tiny, cheap, and digital video editing is a kick.
These are the tapes I use. It's been said that you can use cheap media for digital since it's digital, but just the opposite is true! You use a cheap VHS tape and you get a noisy picture. You use a cheap MiniDV tape and you get total signal dropout. It's all or nothing.
Hmm, mini-DV, $3.89 for 63 minutes (from your link). 12 cm DVD-R, 35 cents or so for 120 minutes from just about anywhere; do the math. Of course I'd really like a camera that can record dual layer DVD (8.5GB or around 210 minutes). Those discs are around $6 now but will keep getting cheaper.
Being able to record longer than 1 hour is the reason I still use my junky old hi-8 recorder (2 hour tape about $3).
Yes, Mini-DV has an extended mode, but so does DVD, so you can record 4 hours on a 2 hour disc with some quality loss.
Mini-DV is also a lossy format (DV25). DVD is a little more lossy but uses a more sophisticated compressor so it's still pretty good. They've got the editing stuff worked out by now, I believe. For my own purposes I'm not too concerned about frame-accurate fancy editing. If I were doing professional production I'd care about it more and want to use Mini-DV, I guess.
Being able to record longer than 1 hour is the reason I still use my junky old hi-8 recorder (2 hour tape about $3).
Yes, Mini-DV has an extended mode, but so does DVD, so you can record 4 hours on a 2 hour disc with some quality loss.
Mini-DV is also a lossy format (DV25). DVD is a little more lossy but uses a more sophisticated compressor so it's still pretty good. They've got the editing stuff worked out by now, I believe. For my own purposes I'm not too concerned about frame-accurate fancy editing. If I were doing professional production I'd care about it more and want to use Mini-DV, I guess.
[ QUOTE ]
drizzle said:
Okay, I learned something today (thank you google). DVD's are called DVD's whether they are the "normal" size or the "mini" size. I haven't taken the plunge on a camcorder yet so the smaller size DVD's are not something I've really paid any attention to before now.
According to this site the standard sizes are 12 cm (~4.72 in) and 8 cm (~3.14 in). The 12 cm size is the common one that you get when you buy or rent a movie on DVD. The 8 cm size is the common one for camcorders.
Now, getting back to the original question, are there camcorders out there that record on 12 cm disks?
[/ QUOTE ]
Ahem. I think I had a senior moment.
-john
drizzle said:
Okay, I learned something today (thank you google). DVD's are called DVD's whether they are the "normal" size or the "mini" size. I haven't taken the plunge on a camcorder yet so the smaller size DVD's are not something I've really paid any attention to before now.
According to this site the standard sizes are 12 cm (~4.72 in) and 8 cm (~3.14 in). The 12 cm size is the common one that you get when you buy or rent a movie on DVD. The 8 cm size is the common one for camcorders.
Now, getting back to the original question, are there camcorders out there that record on 12 cm disks?
[/ QUOTE ]
Ahem. I think I had a senior moment.
-john
2dim
Enlightened
For what it's worth, JVC has recently introduced a hard drive camcorder line, without discs or tapes...
