How Important is Luxeon Binning?

Comments?

Wow, I didn't realize the inconsistencies even within the bins!!

So what do the codes represent? Are you saying these are the exact flashlight, but have this many differences in the bins?
Is this from different manufacturers making the LED's or what?

Same manufacturer made all the lights. Same manufacturer made all the LEDs. The manufacturer bins the LEDs, and the bins are labeled as shown.

More on binning here:
http://www.lumileds.com/pdfs/AB21.PDF

umm how important /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
to complete the above picture, you need to have some visable or metered specs on the actual light output.
IMO there are certian Colors of poor quality ones are that the OUTPUT on them is barely over glow paint /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif.

i would far rather have a nasty color, than a minimal output, if i had known better i would have checked EACH item before epoxying them down /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
i would rather have tosse them in the trash, or sold them on e-bay (yes thats it sell them on e-bay).

i have seen fluxuations in output and color that should have been put in a DIFFERENT bin, all from the SAME bin, and seen all together, driven off the exact same line, the "bad" ones stand out like a sore thumb.

Not as important as we all are thinking it is.


just have a look on the bins:


look at this wide rangs!!!

Luminous Flux Bins
N 18.1-23.5
P 23.5-30.6
Q 30.6-39.8
R 39.8-51.7
S 51.7-67.2
T 67.2-87.4
U 87.4-113.6


Forward Voltage Bins
H 3.03-3.27
J 3.27-3.51
K 3.51-3.75
L 3.75-3.99
and don´t forgett that! http://www.candlepowerforums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=LED&Number=898309&page=1&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=all


However THERE ARE hudge difference between led´s
but let me ask a question.

Will a current based regulation be able to balance the differnce forward bins as well at the same but older LED???


I would like to know more about
U(in) + I (in) vs U(out) + I(out)

of each regulation /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sick2.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif

More info here:

Here

and Here

heh. NYAH - awesome bin.

NYAH NYAH!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

The bin ranges are huge. Vf bin really doesn't matter too much (it won't stay there for long). A high Q can equal or best a low R (there is a 10% allowance in brightness bins, so 10% of overlap). Color bins are also all over the place - an borderline "bad" color bin can look whiter than an extreme "good" color bin.

So it's still a bit of a crapshoot.

LOL.

Right, but what would you rather start off with, a YA, X1 or V1? Or a WO or XO? Assuming you are driving the part at the binned spec, 350mA for a Luxeon I or 700mA for a Luxeon III.

I'd probably prefer color bins ending in 0 and A. Though, there are good samples in the other bins.

Yeah... color bins are all over the place - I wouldn't be surprised if a W0 could also be binned as a V1 or vise-versa depending on the day of the week, phase of the moon, production quota, whatnot (er, Lumileds' internal tint binning specifications).

You know, Newbie, it's evident that Lumileds has many shortcomings ... which you tirelessly point out ... almost gleefully. Are you also engaging in some axe-grinding, or just feel that they esteem they're held in needs to be deflated a notch or several?

Idleprocess, anything for the advancement of decent LEDs, especially competition. Just look at it did to improve American cars, when the Japanese got into the market.

I would like to see them bin them more like they are used in typical applications, where the die isn't sitting at 25C. It would be great to have another part number for the Luxeon III, where it is binned at 1000mA, and a more typical junction temperature...of course I'm dreaming...

I'm gonna have to disagree with you on the bin deal, especially if you run them under the same conditions they were binned at, especially the rather small XO and WO bins.


Just imagine, instead of three close bins, I had samples of the other five bins in that photo.

we could just have Newbie, burn them in, re-bin them with some reality specs that actually matter to people.
but squeezing the primo ones out of newbie after he tested them might be just a bit harder than we think /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

i love yo color bin! thanks, what light is that?

Those are Costco Luxeon lights, sold through a warehouse chain across the USA.

I picked up more this afternoon, scored a QWAJ and a really nasty green looking QX1J. Not as bad as those first white Luxeon V parts LumiLEDs was sampling way back, remember those? X1 is definitely the closest to it (when ran in spec).

[ QUOTE ]
NewBie said:
. . . competition. Just look at it did to improve American cars, when the Japanese got into the market.


[/ QUOTE ]

turned them all into PLASTIC short lived, over computerized pieces of junk?
oh hey that was an improvement.

[ QUOTE ]
VidPro said:
[ QUOTE ]
NewBie said:
. . . competition. Just look at it did to improve American cars, when the Japanese got into the market.


[/ QUOTE ]

turned them all into PLASTIC short lived, over computerized pieces of junk?
oh hey that was an improvement.

[/ QUOTE ]


Sorry pal, had a 1969 Datsun pickup that was running fine in 1993. Got a 1993 Nissan P/U that has 250,000 miles and only really needed a water pump. The record of the Japanese vehicles speaks for itself. You should have seen all the cars on the sides of the road, *daily*, before the Japanese competition forced the US makers to drastically improve their quality.

FORD, Found On Road Dead, got it's nickname through it's well deserved reputation.
FORD -Fixed Or Repaired Daily
FORD -First On Recall Day
FORD -First On Road to Dump
CHEVY -Cheapest Heap Ever Visioned Yet
CHEVY -Can Hear Every Valve Yell
DODGE -Dead On Delivery, Go Easy
G. M. -General Maintenance
G. M. -Goshdarn Mess
GMC -Gotta Mechanic Coming
JEEP -Just Eats Every Part
JEEP -Junk Engineering Executed Poorly
AMC -Another Major Catastrophe


Anyhow, here are the above lights with the optics removed, so they are bare, gets rid of any influences of optics or centering.

thanks for the lux ratings, a few of them are different than i would have suspected.
which leaves only One question i end up with about them.

is the light output relative to thier runtime? or the total wattage that they are drawing from the battery relative to thier output, or do we have a real example here of Lumens per watt differentials?

I will have to get them off the boost supplies in those lights to know more. Before doing that, I'd like to get a hold of bins VO, V1, WO, XO. Remember, each also has varying Vf.

After seeing how much tints vary even within a bin it makes me wonder why some people pay a huge premium for certain bins.