Feeler: solid aluminion reflectors. Should I make?

So Carly is slow and has the $50 buck min. Plus they are coated so they can not be polished up if need be.

I am getting a quote on a form tool to cut the parabolic shape. I and sure it will be over $250. I don't want to leap too fast, so the feeler.

Reflectors will fit in a C or D cell Mag housing. Any size hole for the lamp from 1/4 on up.

Hand polished 6061 aluminium is the material.

Price...well..lets say 12.50 each plus shipping. The lowest should be 10.00 each, if the polishing time is not a killer.
What do you say, would you buy 1 or more??

Les

Re: Feeler: solid aluminion reflectors. Should I m

Les,

OK. This is a big can of worms, so bear with me:

First, all flashlight reflectors, I just found out (from a very informative post by Ginseng in the reviews forum), have a divergence from parabolic, measured in degrees. I assume that this is because the light source is usually not very close to being a true point source, and thus the divergence is needed.

Second, polished aluminum is not as reflective as vacuum deposited aluminum (aka "vacuum metalized" or "aluminized".)

Third, bare aluminum oxidizes, albeit slowly.

Fourth, bare aluminum reflectors obviously cannot be orange peeled.

Firth, the issue with Carley is not the $50 minimum. Heck, at any give moment, I could sell $50 worth of 1940's on B/S/T in short order. The issue with Carley is that they are "slow" (actually "sporadic and unreliable" would be better words--if you knew that they would deliver on a certain date for sure that would be something, but they don't)

However--and here's the crux--they are only slow in the under-coating and aluminizing (and potting, too), because these things all happen at their plant in Mexico. If all you want are bare aluminum reflectors, Carley has hundreds or even thousands of 1940's on hand, ready to ship out the next day; it's when you want them coated and aluminized or custom cut, or--God forbid--both, that you run into the problems.

Note that FiveMega had parabolic reflectors custom made but still ended up having Carley undercoat and aluminize them, and the result was a $25 reflector instead of an $8 reflector.

Anyway, back to the coating thing: yes, they can't be polished, but they are very, very shiny to begin with and stay that way with some care on the part of the user. Even a finger print can be soaked off with simple green, then the whole reflector can be rinsed with distilled water and left to dry. You can't polish them, true, but they are way more reflective than even the best polishing job you could do.

So, no, I wouldn't buy any--no offense--because if I wanted to go this route, I would just buy them bare from Carley and do it myself. Or you could do this.

Bill and I are actually looking into alternative coating companies, but I'm betting that they will all be significantly more expensive than Carley. We shall see.

Also, I think you will find that the bare, machined reflectors will need a LOT of polishing, but I could be wrong.

Re: Feeler: solid aluminion reflectors. Should I m

I have had a few prototype reflectors sent to me, sans coating, for evaluation of the beam shape and dispersion. These invaribly fall well short of lux measurements compared to the plated reflector when I get it. I have polished them and I had one nickle plated and then bright chrome over the nickle. The ones I get plated perform much better and that's with orange peel on top. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif

Jim makes some points well worth considering I think.

Re: Feeler: solid aluminion reflectors. Should I m

Hmmm....I can get them uncoated??

At any rate, I am guessing you have never seen bare polished alum. at least not a good job of it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif It look's just about like the Carley. No orange peel true. Having made way too many molds that had to be polished, I am familiar with the process.

On second hand, I am slowly building a vacuum aluminizor to coat telescope mirrors. So if I wanted to I could coat these. But I do not see coating as an advantage, unless ya want OP.

Check the Carly site, they brag on hand polished, saying it makes a protective layer. Horse pucky I say /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif You need an over coat to protect the surface for years. Bare alum. can be touched up easy enough at home. For the under 100 watt crowd a spray on clear cote like Rustoleum should be fine.

Speak up folks, I'm just dipping a toe in the water here.

Les

Re: Feeler: solid aluminion reflectors. Should I m

While I would like to see another source of reflectors, I foresee many problems....

1- You are going to have to do ALOT of testing with various leds bulbs etc, to get a all around nice shaped reflector.
What may look great with one led or bulb, may look like crap with another. For example, getting a 5W led to look good is real hard.

2- You MUST have them coated. I can polish the hell out of bare aluminum, till its a mirror shine,,,, and its crap for a reflector.
Just becuase it LOOKS shinny, doesnt mean its going to reflect alot of light properly. Many finishes LOOK the same, but take a few light readings and you will see a difference.

3 - Even if you have them coated, you will have to buff/polish them very smooth before hand. Any machining lines or rings in the AL will show up ALOT worse after coating.

If you want to go threw with this, fine, it will be a great contribution to CPF.
Just be sure to do it right, you dont want to be stuck with alot of reflectors noone wants.
And remember, we are picky, its the bold truth, especially with reflectors.

Look into what coatings you can get on them, I am sure there are a few CPF members that can tell you what coating is the best, see if its within your means and funds.

~John

Re: Feeler: solid aluminion reflectors. Should I m

My local metallizer wanted to "coat" mine prior to metallization. He told me it would be much smoother, which I can understand as I hadn't bothered to really polish them. The part was a cavity in a copper part surrounding an optic. Previous experience with unmetallized cavities resulted with visable copper in the beam. I said no due to conductivity considerations.

I suspect a free-flowing coating can produce a smoother surface than highly-polished aluminum, but in many applications, some degree of texture is desirable. There are 2 current posts of what appear to be thermal issues with some Carly reflectors and very hot lamps, probably related to coating processing. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif

Larry

Re: Feeler: solid aluminion reflectors. Should I m

I think I saw someone post that the Magcharger uses a steel reflector. Is that right? It would be nice and shiny and impervious to having a coating melt.

Re: Feeler: solid aluminion reflectors. Should I m

Actually those reflectors with problems are FiveMega reflectors, and from what I have seen so far, no one has said who the coating source was for those reflectors.


I talked with FiveMega by PM at one point and know he used Carley for at least some, but he indicated he wasn't very happy with their time frames. I don't know if he went elsewhere or not.

That said, Ginseng and I, along with Jim, have LOTS of runs on Carley reflectors with 100 watt bulbs and so far as I know, haven't seen the melt problem.

Bill

Re: Feeler: solid aluminion reflectors. Should I m

Unlax, Bill,

The USL proto is holding up fine!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif
(You do have a bunch of moths really pi$$ed at you, though! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif )

Larry

Re: Feeler: solid aluminion reflectors. Should I m

I would buy 2 - 3

Re: Feeler: solid aluminion reflectors. Should I m

I'm almost totally not able to buy anything online. Not much even by money order these days.

I was lucky enough to get two of the SMO drop in reflectors from FM, and could not be more pleased with them.

What you are suggesting MIGHT sell well... but if many of us are anything like me, the quality would really have to be there!

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif to you for trying!

Re: Feeler: solid aluminion reflectors. Should I m

I think they would sell but, big but, I would be reluctant to sink any appreciable amt of money in such a venture.
JMO
vhyper007

Re: Feeler: solid aluminion reflectors. Should I m

All this talk of coating is making me think I need to get back to work on my vacuum chamber.

Does anyone know what the sprayed on undercoat is?

Les

Re: Feeler: solid aluminion reflectors. Should I m

Jil rev DD uses a custom made metal reflector. it's made of thin steel type material, looks to be plated instead of coated.

wonder if entendue can tell us how these reflectors are made?

Re: Feeler: solid aluminion reflectors. Should I m

I'll take 2.

Re: Feeler: solid aluminion reflectors. Should I m

I'd rather have plated steel myself. Aluminum coating melts when to hot.

Re: Feeler: solid aluminion reflectors. Should I m

[ QUOTE ]
NikolaTesla said:
I'd rather have plated steel myself. Aluminum coating melts when to hot.

[/ QUOTE ]

NT,

No. Aluminum has a melting point of 660 degrees C, which is 1220 F. There is no way you are getting the reflector that hot. The "coating" which is melting is ON TOP OF THE REFLECTOR, but UNDERNEATH THE VACUUM METALIZED DEPOSITED LAYER. If that undercoating is not heat resistant, it will melt and the very very thin layer of aluminum coated on top of it will ride along with it, thus appearing to "melt". A steel reflector would not solve this problem. What you need is an undercoating that has a high enough melting point to stay solid over the operating range of the reflector.

Re: Feeler: solid aluminion reflectors. Should I m

Well folks, I just got some smooth Carlys and I am happy with them. They are what I was thinking of making and they are cheap. (under $7 plus shipping).

No need for me to make them, thank you everyone for your input.

I can now get back to work on building some lights to sell ya /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Les

Re: Feeler: solid aluminion reflectors. Should I m

I am very curious what would result from aluminizing one without an intermediate "smoothing" layer. I think it would yield a "micro" orange peel surface. Problem is my source has a $90 lot min charge. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Larry

Re: Feeler: solid aluminion reflectors. Should I m

IBOP (itty bitty OP) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

A side by side comparison of smooth coated and smooth uncoated shows the uncoated has a bit of haze the coated does not. After thinking about it, the coating is pure alum. The uncoated one is an alloy, that may not polish up as nice as pure alum.

Les