A light recommendation wanted..

Hi,

I'm trying to decide on a new torch (I'm Australian, so I'm not going to say 'flashlight'..) and am hoping that the esteemed membership here can perhaps offer some ideas. Following are the capabilities I would like:

1. Beam brightness/range - brighter than an E2, beam which is fairly narrow to give some range, but still gives some good peripheral light.

2. Battery and life - somwhere in the vicinity of a few (3-5 or more) hours of full or near full brightness. Preferably not rechargable, lithium 123 batteries would be ok.

3. Size - something that can be thown in a daypack easily, preferably smaller than a Mag 3D.

4. Waterproof, and fairly robust - won't be used for diving, but can stand being used in a few feet of water.

5. Price/availability - Around US$50, no more than US$100 and available from somewhere that ships outside the US..

Don't know if I'm expecting too much, but would like to know what's out there. I've already poked around the forum to see what people have mentioned previously, but so far have come up with:
Turtlelite 2 - may be a good choice
SF M3 - perfect, but just a tad expensive..

Any thoughts appreciated...

Graham

It pains me to say it, but the Turtle Lite II is not as bright as an E2. Not even close.

-john

I haven't used them, but you might look at the following:

UK4AA 4 hrs (4 AA)
UKSL4 4-5 hrs (4 C)

-john

How about the Princeton Tec Surge?

Al

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by John N:
It pains me to say it, but the Turtle Lite II is not as bright as an E2. Not even close.

-john<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's true. Thanks for reminding me. For some reason I'd forgotten that its a LED light and got it out of proportion. Went back and re-read about it.
Ah well. The UKSL4 looks pretty good though. This would be a lot easier if I could find a place where I could actually look at these things. Hard to find a shop here that has a big range. Most shops in Japan are very specialized.(although no torch specialists..)

Graham

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Size15s:
How about the Princeton Tec Surge?

Al<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is the Surge an old model or something? It isn't shown on the Princeton Tec website.(at least, that I could find..)
Looks pretty good.
Those Brinkman Legend LX lights that everyone is talking about look good. Shame that I can't get one over here for that price..

Graham

Well, it IS there, just not in an easy to find place. It is in the Whats New link. One would think they would place it into the other categories too, and then in the Whats New section also. But no, they simply put it in the new section. http://www.princetontec.com/outdoor_surge.html
I did just notice something. The LED module I had seen before, well, you can use it in the tec20! I did not know that. I wonder how much the LED module costs. It does not have specifications for the module though. Anybody used one? Looks like it has 3 LED's. Plus, it says it maintains constant output, but then again, PT are known to exagerrate minor details such as that. Like on the Tec20, they say it is 2 watts, but it is closer to 1, it is like 1.2 or so. The LED module DOES say it would last up to 100 hours. Hmm, lets see, the rated capacity of a AA cell is 2800 (just checked, 2850)or something, so the thing pulls at MOST 28 mA? That does not sound right, that would be around 8 mA per LED. Of course, I think they are just exaggerating again. Anybody know about this? I wouldn't mind having one, but not at that level of dimness suggested by the VERY low mA pull I just came up with. Watch it be a dumb math error. Anybody know?

Spudgunr

Edit: Just thought I'd say my guess is it gives probably 10 hours of GOOD light output, then diminishing. But, if somebody HAS one of these, I would love to know.

Oh, one more edit. Wow, where have the posts gone to? I just saw I had over 60 posts. It seems like it has been 10. Oh well, now I realize how easily somebody who puts in their thoughts as much as Craig or Al could get 1000.

Thanks for the link. Should have looked a bit further on their site, I guess. The Surge looks pretty good too. I just need to see if I can find some places around here that have them. There's a fair number of dive shops here, so may be able to find something that way.

Graham

Yep, get the Surge mate. It fits all your requirements nicely. I just got one and its a keeper.

I'm going to sing along with the choir. PT Surge or Streamlight 4AA or 3C.

How about Pelican M10 4C? It is a tad smaller than the 3D. Waterproof? I don't know. It's water resistence though. I got one and it is pretty good for the $$. I also got a legend LX for backup. This combo saves $$$ for me.

I have the Surge, and it is one of my favorites, but if you want 3-5 hours of E2-level light I think you want one of the C-cell lights mentioned. The 3-C pelican light has about the tightest beam of anything I own except for my 9PT, but it seems slightly below a fresh E2 in total output. I've never used the UK SL4, but my SL6 is small enough to fit in a jacket pocket and much lighter than a 3D Mag, with similar output to the 9P.

As for the PT led module mentioned by Tater Rocket, it's the same one I have in my matrix and yes, the led's are not driven hard at all. I've never metered it (I don't think an ordinary mulitimeter gives accurate results on the pulsed circut anyway) but I know with new batteries all three leds put out about the same light as a single photon. The three led Tikka seems about twice as bright, at least to start with. There was a link around CPF a while back to a comparison of the Tikka and Matrix for caving, and as I recall most prefered the Matrix since it was sturdier and maintained it's output over longer periods.

As for me, I like them both, but would pick the Matrix if I could only have one. (2xAA, steadier output, sturdier light, adjustable angle, incandescent option)

-BCK

Thanks everyone for all the ideas. It looks like the choice comes down to the Princeton Tec Surge, or maybe the UKE SL6. Or maybe I'll get both. Can never have too many of these things..
Based on comments in some of the other topics, the Surge looks like #1 choice though. Using AA batteries is a plus, since I always have a bunch of these lying around for my other gadgets.
Now I just need to find one

Graham

Graham,

Check out these pictures between an E2 and SL4 on this thread (around 1/3 of the way down)
here

The SL4 is very bright and extends at least 200'. Runtime is around 3-4 hours on 4 C cells. Also it's under $30 US.

Wow, looks pretty good. Might have to get this one as well as the Surge..

Graham

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Artie Choke:
Graham,

Check out these pictures between an E2 and SL4 on this thread (around 1/3 of the way down)
here

The SL4 is very bright and extends at least 200'. Runtime is around 3-4 hours on 4 C cells. Also it's under $30 US.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi Graham, I have most of the lights mentioned in this discussion.

If you go to a 4AA I suggest the UK4AA with Ultra-Alkalines or Lithiums if you can afford them. I have been very disappointed with the Streamlight Polypro 4AA and the Stealthlight 4AA because of their unnecessary size and weight, and the quality of their beams. The stealthlight's beam is too narrow for good walking, and the Streamlight's beam is extremely irregular and ring-ridden. The beam of the UK4aa is not perfect by any means, but it is much superior to the others. I am lucky to have a local dealer who is a borderline flashaholic (unfortunately he doesn't want to join CPF) who lets me try various lamps nd reflectors. I tried three for the UKE before I found one I really liked.

If you want a bigger light you should consider either 3-C, 4-C or 8-AA (the Surge).
The Streamlight Polypro 3C is one of two lights that I'll mention here that had the potential to be a really superior light that would meet most of your criteria. While the beam isn't as bad as that of the 4AA, it is still inferior to most really ist class lights. A faceted reflector would have made all the difference without adding prohibitive cost. (Think of the LX!) Also, IMHO the tail switch is ill-conceived. This is a light that most people will use as a conventional flashlight, not as a tac light. I'll bet there's not a single LEO on this Forum who would use this as a tac light. It's really a shame; this could have been a superior light

The 4C models include some pretty good lights. Many of them are dive lights. I have the Princeton Tec 400, the UKE SL4 and the
Pelican M10. These are all good bright lights with xenon/halogen lamps and decent runtime. The Tek400 and the SL4C are
relatively compact, having the 4 batteries in a 2x2 configuration, both around 6" long, but the UKE is significantly smaller than the Tek400. The 400 suffers from a very large bezel and an awkward shape, while the SL4 is probably the smallest that a 4C light can be. Both lights give off a narrow, penetrating beam. The Pelican M10 is also a 4C, but arranged end to end resulting in an 11 1/4" light. Again, the light is bright but very tight and narrow.

There are other lights I could mention, but it's time to talk about the Surge. This has, or had the potential to be one of the great lights. It's a cleverly designed, surprisingly compact, easy to use light with a fairly decent runtime and VERY bright light, with a fairly broad hotspot and excellent peripheral light. The faceted reflector gives a beam quality similar to the Surefires. The one thing missing from this light is maybe one more hour of runtime. A voltage regulated circuit would be a major improvement, and I wish we could prevail upon Princeton Tek to look into this. Using Ultra Alkalines will definitely help, though it can get expensive, which is the 2nd shortcoming of this light. Running it is not cheap, and although it's possible to get very inexpensive AA's from cheapbatteries.com and others, they may not be of premium quality. Rechargeable AAs make a lot of sense for this light.

Lithium AA's are a point of controversy with the Surge (see my thread: "CAN LITHIUMS REALLY RUIN THE SURGE?" Just search under SURGE. According to BrightGuy, lithiums will "ruin the light". Several of us, including Brock are interested in testing this, and I'm eagerly awaiting my shipment of Lithiums to check it out.

That's about all I can think of off hand, except for three other lights.

The UK2L is a tiny light (L 4 1/4" x 7/8" body & 1/3'8" bezel. Light as a feather. It takes 2 lithiums and has the exact same bezel/lamp as the ULE 4AA. I haven't tested relative runtimes, however.

Radio Shack had (2 years ago) a 3D, adjustable beam, and surprisingly light, very inexpensive light with a thin metal body
and decent light (especially after I put in a xenon bulb. It's a good, basic light, though not very sophisticated, and although it might provoke disdain and upturned noses among our Flashaholic colleagues, it shouln't be automatically excluded (If it still exists).

Finally there's the good old Maglite 3-C (not Magcharger unless you need to use it
constantly). This is a really solid, classic warrior of a light, long burning and quite bright (especially when you substitute a xenon bulb for the original. It's also great for hitting people on the head if you're in that sort of situation (or mood)

That's it for now. Good luck,

Best regards,
Brightnorm

Thanks for all that information, Brightnorm.
Consensus seems to be that the Surge is the best choice.
Funny that you mention the Mag 3C - I already have one, but the light is quite poor. I hadn't thought of getting a different bulb. That's something else I can look for. Until now the Mag 3C has mostly served as a backup sitting at the apartment (my girlfriend has instructions to wield it appropriately if something happens when I'm not there..) Definitely a good solid instrument.

I wasn't expecting to find a perfect light, but I'll be happy if it comes close, and the Surge sounds like it. Now I just need to find somewhere to buy one.
I just had a quick look in a dive shop near where I work, and they didn't have any Princeton Tec lights. I'll keep looking, but does anyone know any online stores that stock them and will also ship outside the US?
Unfortunately Brightguy will not ship internationally...

Graham

Grahm,

I didn't know about Brightguy's international shipping problem. I wish I knew who to recommend. Here's an idea: If no one follows up with suggestions in the next few days (of course you can't wait that long, like all true flashaholics!)Just start a post like "HELP - WHO'LL SHIP A SURGE INTERNATIONALLY?" or something like that. If I know my colleagues, someone will weigh in.

Good luck.

Best regards,
Brightnorm

Hi Graham

You need a flashlight as bright as E2, narrow beam pattern and also battery life. There are couple you can think about.

Streamlight ProPoly 4AA, Princeton Tec 40, Pelican StealthLite or Super Sabrelite and Princeton Tec Surge.

GoodLuck
ac

Good idea, I might just do that. So far no luck finding any locally, so its worth a try.

Graham

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by brightnorm:
Grahm,

I didn't know about Brightguy's international shipping problem. I wish I knew who to recommend. Here's an idea: If no one follows up with suggestions in the next few days (of course you can't wait that long, like all true flashaholics!)Just start a post like "HELP - WHO'LL SHIP A SURGE INTERNATIONALLY?" or something like that. If I know my colleagues, someone will weigh in.

Good luck.

Best regards,
Brightnorm<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>