Flashaholics possibly in more danger during an emergency

Saw this TIME archive article about 9/11. Here's the excerpt which may have special significance for us.

...."The terror triggered other reactions besides heroism. Robert Falcon worked in the parking garage at the towers: 'When the blast shook it went dark and we all went down, and I had a flashlight and everyone was screaming at me. People were ripping my shirt to try and get to my flashlight, and they were crushing me. The whole crowd was on top of me wanting the flashlight.'..."

TIME ARTICLE

Quite alarming, especially if it is a typical reaction

Brightnorm

Re: Flashaholics possibly in more danger during em

I have been in two situations where I decided not to use my flashlight because I was concerned it would cause panic (or not help the situation).
The first was when I was on a crowded tube (central line) and the train stopped in the tunnel and pretty much all the lights went out. It was summer and extremely hot. We were stopped for about 10-15 minutes. A woman fainted but it was so packed she couldn't fall to the floor or be moved a seat so the people around her had to hold her up.
I figured that my SureFire would be only better illuminate the situation we were in and not actually help. There was nowhere to go and nothing to see. So it stayed in my hand switched off but ready.

The second situation was in a nightclub (one my housemates are at right now in fact) that was gassed by a CS canister of quite some size or similar since it filled the whole club in a couple of minutes. The houselights didn't come on but the moving dance lighting stopped as did the music. Knowing the club and its exits it was only once I was helping my date down the fire exit stairs that I used my SureFire. If I had used it on the dancefloor I felt it would have caused further panic. People were either collapsing (like my date) or in a daze (likely because the music had suddenly stopped and it was really difficult to breathe). My first reaction was to leave and drag her with me. It was strange - I'm quite tall and tend to take an overview of crowds - I could see something was wrong because people were coughing and rubbing their eyes and I couldn't see why. I could feel my throat itching and saw people collapsing. It wasn't until my date pretty much collapsed into me that I realised something was very wrong. My urge to get out was strong. I was one of the first down that fire escape. It was so badly lit I really needed to use my SureFire so we didn't trip on the stairs.

Just because you have a flashlight doesn't mean it is always appropriate (or even safe) to use it.

If you have something most people don't but that they need in a situation of crisis and/or panic it is reasonable to assume that people will try to get it for themselves.

Most of us carry at least two flashlights. If you find yourself in a situation where your flashlight services are needed you may like to start off with the smallest, dimmest light to judge the reaction. A Photon or ArcAAA or flashlight on low output may be more useful then overwhelming high intensity output.

Having the only flashlight is like having the only bottle of water, or having the only blade etc.

Al

Re: Flashaholics possibly in more danger during em

Wow, I never thought of this angle before.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

Re: Flashaholics possibly in more danger during em

This has occurred to me before but it's still startling to see it in print. The "last bottle of water" is a good analogy, Al. Desperate people will try desperate measures given the circumstances, so it makes sense to choose where and when to reveal your survival devices.

Re: Flashaholics possibly in more danger during em

Size15's, wow, how did someone get a hold of a CS grenade? That's pretty scarry. One of my friends found an old mace can in his uncles house, but if you read the back it said it contained CS, and not pepper spray! It was like police riot control. Very strange & rare!

If your'e in a large crowd with an emergency I would be leary of using my lights I had with me, but if it was just a few friends or more of a controled event then yes it can help.

Re: Flashaholics possibly in more danger during em

Wow, never thought of it in that light. Seems like a situation where the E2D or Surefire M6 with crenulated bezel can come in handy for self defense. Can smash a few eyes and take a few people out and have them back away (let alone the light from the M6 to take them down.)
If they want my light, they better earn the right to take it by taking me down or taking me with it.

Hence why I sometimes apply the term "Use the light when the situation warrants it."

Re: Flashaholics possibly in more danger during em

I found a cached copy of an article on the night here

Al

Re: Flashaholics possibly in more danger during em

(Complete article "here".)

Very intersting thread and glad you posted it. I'd never really thought about this before. Yes, I like the "last water bottle" analogy as well!

I took an "emergency prep/survival" course once. It was held at one of the local "outdoors/hiking/camping" clubs. They are typically "anti-gun", however the instructor (and she stated she did not want to "argue" or "get into the politics" of owning and using weapons)...stated a gun of some type should be considered. She said that the situation can go bad REAL FAST at times. She was referring to those who "are prepared" (with supplies) and those "who are not"!

It indeed is sad what people will do in an emergency situation, but indeed "survival and basic instinct" kick in.

You're the hero Al! Seriously sounds like you handled yourself and your date well! You get respect for that! Beats screaming "save me, save me" and wailing your hands and running away from "those in need"!

Again, good subject!

Re: Flashaholics possibly in more danger during em

Depending on the situation you may have no choice but to use (one of) your lights, ie in a pitch black escape scenario where you are not familiar with the terrain. (Fortunately, Al knew the club layout and kept his cool). I do know that some flashaholics posted that they were able to help evacuate NYC subway cars without panic during the most recent blackout. The excellent "last bottle of water" analogy may apply only to situations of true desparation and panic.

Perhaps this is a good time to discuss strategies of light use in emergencies. I felt quite unsettled after reading that article because I thought I had my emergency strategy all worked out, but now I'm not so sure. Al suggested initially testing reactions with a relatively modest light. What other methods might we use to assure our own survival while holding that "last bottle of water"?

Brightnorm

Re: Flashaholics possibly in more danger during em

Some people tend to be at their worst in emergencies. Others are at their best. Its the tough choice. I've had one situation where the lights went out and ONE person grabbed for my light, but it wasn't a riot like described above where MOST were grabbing.

Re: Flashaholics possibly in more danger during emergency

[ QUOTE ]
brightnorm said:
Saw this TIME archive article about 9/11. Here's the excerpt which may have special significance for us.

...."The terror triggered other reactions besides heroism. Robert Falcon worked in the parking garage at the towers: 'When the blast shook it went dark and we all went down, and I had a flashlight and everyone was screaming at me. People were ripping my shirt to try and get to my flashlight, and they were crushing me. The whole crowd was on top of me wanting the flashlight.'..."

TIME ARTICLE

Quite alarming, especially if it is a typical reaction

Brightnorm

[/ QUOTE ]


edited to be more PC

I carry something else for protection and a knife for close combat. In a panic situation or riot remember even if the lights are off and you have a candle and someone doesn't have it. They assume you have even more and in a SHTF scenario DEFEND yourself and your necessary tools.

Re: Flashaholics possibly in more danger during em

Very interesting article. Thank you for bringing it up, brightnorm. I would have never even thought the snatching for the flashlight in the desperate situation would occur, but now that I think of it, it could happen in an instant. This reinforces my thoughts on carrying at least 2 lights like Al said. I fortunately haven't been in that type of situation where everyone was stuck in an emergency but now I have a better understanding of what to do with the decision of whether or not to use the flashlight. This just shows there's no such thing as being too prepared. When SHTF, no one can help you except yourself.

Re: Flashaholics possibly in more danger during em

This topic is very interesting... and it ties into the recent thread re flashlights for Self-Defense, etc. I believe that general consensus there was that lights, alone, are not suitable as weapons -- but they make good TOOLS to supplement and facilitate the use of weapons.

The examples here tend to make the case that one ALSO needs a weapon -- any weapon -- as part of an ad hoc on-body "tool kit" for SHTF situations when Big Brothers' agents aren't right there to maintain order. Regrettably, such anticipatory, self-reliant (tactical) thinking ("What would you do IF...")is frowned-upon in certain jurisdictions... and countries.

Re: Flashaholics possibly in more danger during em

A cheap and disposable light would be a handy decoy in questionable situations. Turn on an XNova cheepie, if the situation turns bad, throw the light away from your intended escape route. With luck, the people who in a state of panic will go for the light and clear from your escape route.

Re: Flashaholics possibly in more danger during em

I've always thought it best to exercise discretion in any sort of emergency situation.

It seems that some sort of generic "emergency training" should be taught in schools beyond the spartan (and nearly pointless) fire/storm/earthquake/etc drills they do now. At least subject people to some emergency-type conditions in a controlled environment so they have some experience dealing with the panic and sizing up the situation quickly.

"SHTF?" Stuff Happens Too Fast?

oh, wait - Stuff Hits The Fan. Got it.

Re: Flashaholics possibly in more danger during em

Interesting. "In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king." Or in the darkness, the guy/gal with the flashlight is a target.

In any emergency, it is best not to reveal your capabilities before necessary, whether weapons or survival equipment such as water, flashlights, money, etc.

If you need to use your flashlight, here's what I would recommend (for what it is worth):

1. Act like the Big Dog. Who has flashlights? Cops, security, employees. You have a flashlight in a dark environment, so pretend you are calling the shots and soon you will be. Use a command presence (stand tall, loud confident voice, crisp, easy-to-understand orders) and light up any trouble makers for the crowd to see. "Everybody quiet down and don't panic!" Dominate with light as we say.

2. Help others. Shine your light towards an exit or towards an injured person. People will rally around the guy with the flashlight if you aren't selfish (I would hope). I believe people will allow you to keep the flashlight (even protecting you) if you are not just looking out for yourself. You become a de facto leader.

3. In super dangerous environments, such as riots or mass panic, where order goes out the window, use your flashlight in brief flashes and keep moving. It will be harder for people to know who has the light and where you are. This is what I do to close distance on criminals in dark environments.

Re: Flashaholics possibly in more danger during em

Lightraven, great insights, I'm trying to commit them to memory so I have them in the event of an emergency.

On my recent travels I had two lights on me, and I usually drew the smaller one - the KL1. Since I had quite a lot of downtime in transit I thought a lot about various situations I encountered and some of it involved thinking about the psychology of light. The KL1 seems to be more accepted as a little toy by curious folks, because of its dimunitive size. They universally acknowlege it as bright but consider it harmless. It's not the "You carry that?" reaction I get with friends and my U2.

There were also situations where I did not pull the light despite the fact I thought I could use it. One of them: I was looking for an address number - pasted on buildings that I THOUGHT were occupied. Perhaps they may not have been - but why run the risk of pissing someone off by blasting their dwelling with a Surefire P61? (that incan is horrendously bright to the unenlightened living with small 2AA flashlights). I just let my eyes adjust or shaded a LED light with fingers. The lesson? Sometimes it may actually be better NOT to pull it out.

Re: Flashaholics possibly in more danger during em

Lightraven,

Thank you for your professional insights. I will think about them and try to commit them to memory as Kevin is doing.

Brightnorm

Re: Flashaholics possibly in more danger during em

Lightraven,

Excellent post!

Al /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Re: Flashaholics possibly in more danger during em

We were out at night on a trip in a far away suburb. A friend was driving and another friend on the passenger side, I was sitting at the back. We are not very familiar with the place and thanks to the directionless driver and navigator we got lost.

The friend on the passenger side unfolded a map he wanted some light but the rental car cabin light was blown.(incan sucks /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif It was pitch black, no side lights at all, I had to let him have my Arc-AAA. The moment he switch it on, the light had reflected via the white map and the car was going offroad...

Luckily for us, we're only cruising. Little that we know our eyes have already adjusted to the night inspite of the headlight. Hard to believe the lil light actually light up the whole cabin and able to cause disorientation to the driver. Dangerous stuff, but it was allright afterwards, I cup my hands over the beam and read the map behind.

-vince.