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Thread: QIII mod info needed

  1. #1
    Unenlightened
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    Default QIII mod info needed

    Looking for how to do the DD mod and where to purchase the ims 20mm reflector for this light (looking for longer throw).
    Thanks!!!
    slyk

  2. #2
    Flashaholic luminaria's Avatar
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    Default QIII Direct Drive mod

    First you will need to open the bezel. Instructions here.

    Personally, I use a hair dryer and protection gloves. I heat the zone between bezel ad body, turning the light slowly and each 10 seconds or so I try to open it (be carefull with the clip, you can bend it). Usually it will not take more than one minute. If you want to take out the reflector, do it immediately, while the head is hot.

    Once opened this is what you should see:


    You have to unscrew the plastic retaining ring, for this I use scissors. Then take out the light module. Be carefull not to loose the copper contact ring that it is under it.


    Now you have to unsolder the wires to separate the luxeon and the driver.



    At this moment you can choose to also exchange the luxeon to a better bin, and also the heat sink, that as you can see it is small. ViReN has great heat sinks for the Q-III that you can find here

    You will need also to make a PCB for the battery contact similar to the original one:



    I personally prefer to reuse the Q-III inefficient board. I just unsolder all the components, and then using a DMM look for the continuity points for anode and cathode. This is the final result:



    Now put everything back (don't forget the copper ring) are you are done. I put some thermal grease (I use Artic Ceramique) in the sides of the heat sink, but be careful not to isolate the PCB from the copper ring and the body.

    The DD Q-III works great with Li-ion batteries, see the runtime chart for a TWOJ (it is safer to use a *K bin)



    After that it will run for hours (I stopped at 8) with a dimm light, and still going over 2.7v, so you can use unprotected cells without problem.

    However, forget about regular CR123, they directly will produce a dimm light (probably during days)

    About the IMS 20 reflectors I bought mine from PhotonFanatic.

  3. #3
    Flashaholic wmpwi's Avatar
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    Default Re: QIII Direct Drive mod

    You've got some great shots there, but how does the DD beam shot with the non stock reflector compare w/ the standard driver and reflector. (1 more picture's worth a 1K words) [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] Thanks

  4. #4
    Flashaholic luminaria's Avatar
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    Default Re: QIII Direct Drive mod

    DD does not improve brightness, just efficiency, and as a consecuence runtime. So it makes little sense to compare beam shots of DD and standard driver.

    The IMS 20mm reflector however, it has a clear effect in the beam, making it less "round" and improving throw.

    Left: DD Q3 Li-ion TWOJ IMS 20mm
    Right: DD Q3 Li-ion TWOJ Standard reflector



    The same image post-processed in PS to show light intensity.



    For reference, let's see a comparison with a standard Q3.

    Left: DD Q3 Li-ion TWOJ IMS 20mm
    Center: DD Q3 Li-ion TWOJ Standard reflector
    Right: Stock Q3 CR123 SX1K Standard reflector



  5. #5
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    Default Re: QIII Direct Drive mod

    Nice Mod... Simple and Lucid [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

    Thanks luminaria .. its nice to see the comparitive "hotspots"

    ... luminaria ... What's the current drain levels for fully charged Li-Ion for TWOJ

    For TWOK .. its 1.12 Amp to start with.

  6. #6

    Default Re: QIII Direct Drive mod

    ViReN,

    Do you recommend using any kind of thermally conductive goo, like Arctic Silver, between the star and the copper?

    Edit: upon a more careful reading, I have found the answer is YES. (Sorry about that.)

    >>I put some thermal grease (I use Artic Ceramique)

  7. #7
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    Default Re: QIII Direct Drive mod

    Yep you will probably have to use AS, AC etc.. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

  8. #8
    Flashaholic luminaria's Avatar
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    Default Re: QIII Direct Drive mod

    ViReN,
    here are the current levels when measuring with the open tailcap:



    However, as I have discussed in other threads, with the incredulity of some members including you [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img], when you then put the tailcap resistance in the circuit, the currents are significantly lower, starting at 850-900ma and going down.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: QIII mod info needed

    [ QUOTE ]
    slyk said:
    Looking for how to do the DD mod and where to purchase the ims 20mm reflector for this light (looking for longer throw).
    Thanks!!!
    slyk

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Get the reflector here at the shoppe.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: QIII Direct Drive mod

    Hello luminaria,

    I think... the current levels could be low because of limitation of the Spring Resistance? and the Switch Resistance that comes in between....

    Also, How were you able to measure current flowing when tailcap is in action?

  11. #11
    Flashaholic* chevrofreak's Avatar
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    Default Re: QIII Direct Drive mod

    to limit spring resistance I stuffed the large part of the spring with aluminum foil, then put a ball of foil in the open tapered end so they make contact when the tailcap is screwed on. I gained over 200 lux in my TW0J R123 Q3

  12. #12
    Flashaholic luminaria's Avatar
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    Default Re: QIII Direct Drive mod

    I only use the unmounted spring, like in this photo:


    I imagine that the full tailcap will add a little more resistance. Anyway the point is that the final current is way lower than the one you measure in the left photo, and really a TWOJ in a DD Q3 will never go to damaging overdrive levels.

    Unless you make like Chevrofreak and cancel the spring resistance... However I think that it is not a good idea. Those final 200 lux you are getting are costing you 0.5A more, reducing the runtime and soon will be lost due to luxeon degradation. And all for an increment that your perception is unable to notice.

    As a sample look at the LionCub on high level: It starts at 1.8A and runtime is only 25 minutes. This is just because the LionCub is effectively DD, and has zero resistance in the full electrical path (gold coated spring, special internal coating). So you get half the runtime of a DD Q3, a luxeon that will degrade quickly, and just 300 lux more...

  13. #13
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    Default Re: QIII Direct Drive mod

    So, this means that it is infact a good thing to have some sort of resistance... you will get 2 times runtime and have more LED Life... and just 300 lux less than that of LC...

    also to note that QIII is a Best Bang for the Buck... even with the DD & Heat Sink... it is well below the $50 mark... and to have just 300 lux less than that of LC which is $300 ....

  14. #14
    Flashaholic luminaria's Avatar
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    Default Re: QIII Direct Drive mod

    Well ViReN, that does not make justice to Mr Bulk creations, price it is not based in just the lux mark.

    I have a LionHeart and the first time I saw and touched it I was really impressed, it felt more like a perfect luxury object rather than a flashlight. And the UI is also pure art, almost perfect. Really not comparable to a QIII.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: QIII Direct Drive mod

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I understand.... I have no less respect to Mr Bulk's Creations. They are of course a class of it's own. and his creations are near to perfect and as rightly said purest form of art.

    I was just comparing 2 figures ... $300 & $30 [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
    and comparing the Output .... with 300 Lux Difference.
    while Other Factors (like asthetics, UI, Quality, Name, Fame were away from it)
    I know it wont be a good thing to compare QIII with LC... in fact there is no comparison on that front if we consider light as a whole [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

  16. #16
    *Retired* NewBie's Avatar
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    Default Re: QIII Direct Drive mod

    That 300 lux difference works out to what, about 16%?

    LC 1800 lux off fresh charged Li-Ion
    300/1800 = 16%

  17. #17
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    Default Re: QIII Direct Drive mod

    Should I work out Cost Difference ? ... 1000% ? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] ... QIII & LC dont have any comparison NewBie...

    QIII .. is like Poor Man's Light [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] ...and I am a poor man by the way [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
    LC... well every one knows what LC is...

    I have found one way to increase Current... Simply Dip the Spring in Copper Sulphate Solution ... or even a Copper Chloride solution will do... (some Anode & Cathode) apply small voltage (3-6) & let .5A to 1A flow... and in minutes you will have a Good Copper Plated Spring. Resistance will Drastically reduce [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

    Remember, CuSO4 & CuCl3 Solutions are Dangerous... Handle with Great Care...

    After doing this... A Jeweller has promised me to do a very thin coat of Gold .... at cheap price of course...

  18. #18
    Flashaholic* Kryosphinx's Avatar
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    Default Re: QIII Direct Drive mod

    Whoa! Neat! What equipment and stuff do you need to copper plate stuff?

  19. #19
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    Default Re: QIII Direct Drive mod

    A Glass Beaker / Jar [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] a couple of D Cells .. that's it [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

  20. #20
    Flashaholic luminaria's Avatar
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    Default Re: QIII Direct Drive mod

    Let me insist [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dedhorse.gif[/img] that increasing the current above certain levels gets you very little (and soon nothing) at a too high cost.

    I will show it with a real life example using data of some measurements I did a few weeks ago in a DD QIII:

    current: 820ma -> lux: 1350 (with resistored spring)
    current: 1440ma -> lux: 1620 (unresistored)

    A 75% increase in current translates to only a 20% increase in luminosity [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img]

    Advantages: you get a 20% increase in luminosity. Wow! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif[/img] Nope! Many people do not grab the fact that due to the logarithmic nature of your visual perception, you will practically not notice the difference . When I received my luxmeter I did some tests and I had difficulties to clearly notice a 50% increase in luminosity.

    Disadvantages: your luxeon WILL notice the corresponding 75% increase in current and the 5W level overdrive. Not even your copper heatsinks will be able to properly disipate such heat. Soon you luminosity increase will turn luminosity decrease (but a good point is that probably you will not notice until it gets down to 50% [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]) Vf shift will do things worst in the next 50 hours...

    Pluses: your runtime will be reduced to 57% of your original one.

    In resume, you get a short-lived light that seems no brighter than before, but runs half the time and gets a lot hotter. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif[/img]

    I am afraid that these problems are going on, mostly unnoticed in a lot of DD lights, like the Raw, the Lion family, the DD Jil when overdriven with R123s,...

    I bought a Lionheart with few hours of use according to his previous owner and in mint state. But it only gave 1250 lux for a TWOJ, which it is a very low reading with a 27mm reflector. I exchanged the star with a new one, same bin, and it went up to 2400 lux.

    If the old luxeon were a worst case T-bin and the new one a best case T-bin, the Luxeon lottery would account for a 30% increase in luminosity. But I got a 90% increase. So I think the only explanation is that the old luxeon was severely degraded, and that after only a few hours of use...

    I think that the clever thing to do is not to copper/gold plate the spring but the opposite, to increase resistance a little.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: QIII Direct Drive mod

    I m using TWOK ... so my current levels are less ...and so is brightness...

    Your Current Readings are with TWOJ ...

    I m happy with the TWOK + Standard Spring ... hehehe [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

    we have discussed this earlier too [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

    I fully agree with you about Heat Sinking & the Current Levels. Anything above 800 - 900 mA is going to have little effect on the Brightness but will adversely affect LED Life & Battery Life (both in terms of Runtime & Charge Cycles)

    The Copper Plating thing is tried on other cheapo lights InCand... it worked great on them... and was about to do the same on QIII, thanks for reminding me again [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

    Let's wait for K2 Stars [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

    Also you have pointed out interesting fact... with your LionHeart Experiance. And I do agree fully with you that there is no point in going in for "just the Brightness" ....

    A More complete Idea would be a Balance of Brightness, LED Lifetime, Battery Runtime & Of Course Reliablity. and With QIII Heat Sink's, Spring Resistance, R123 & TWOK LED... we can attain most of it [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

  22. #22
    *Retired* NewBie's Avatar
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    Default Re: QIII Direct Drive mod

    [ QUOTE ]
    luminaria said:
    I bought a Lionheart with few hours of use according to his previous owner and in mint state. But it only gave 1250 lux for a TWOJ, which it is a very low reading with a 27mm reflector. I exchanged the star with a new one, same bin, and it went up to 2400 lux.

    If the old luxeon were a worst case T-bin and the new one a best case T-bin, the Luxeon lottery would account for a 30% increase in luminosity. But I got a 90% increase. So I think the only explanation is that the old luxeon was severely degraded, and that after only a few hours of use...



    [/ QUOTE ]


    Interesting.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: QIII Direct Drive mod

    Very interesting Indeed. I knew DDing an emitter is bad due to the overdrive and the heat, but the Lionheart case is just bizarrly excessive.

    I wonder if other Lionheart owners have used theirs longer than for a few hours and share the same phenomenon

  24. #24
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    Default Re: QIII Direct Drive mod

    Off the Line.. but IIRC LionCub in Burst Mode have 1.74 Amp's going in to LED ???

    I think, i should probably start a New Thread in LED Forum... It's not proper here.

  25. #25
    Flashaholic* Anglepoise's Avatar
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    Default Re: QIII Direct Drive mod

    luminaria. I have seen your previous post about current drop with the spring on your QIII. Can you please give us a little more detail as I have not found this situation with mine.
    I have had the spring out on a number of occasions and measured the resistance and there is none , Also I am getting the same current readings with the switch in the circuit as opposed to probing the battery end and body.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: QIII Direct Drive mod

    I have a Old Generation QIII (i.e. Without the Retaining Ring) that one has No Resistance.

    NewGeneration Has Resistance in Spring...

  27. #27
    Flashaholic* Anglepoise's Avatar
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    Default Re: QIII Direct Drive mod

    Thanks ViReN.
    That explains it. I have a very early one with no retaining ring.

  28. #28
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    Default Re: QIII Direct Drive mod

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Welcome

  29. #29

    Default Re: QIII Direct Drive mod

    Well, Im trying to take all of this in but have a question or two. First, can I run protected, rechargeable batteries from Battery Station in an UNMODIFIED QIII? Secondly, can I get the two stage tailcap modification without doing the LED modification and will I be able to run the rechargeables in that? Thanks a lot for any information.

  30. #30
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    Default Re: QIII Direct Drive mod

    Yes, the stock Q3 does work with rechargeables.

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