NiMh's in a Princeton Tec Surge

NiMh\'s in a Princeton Tec Surge

The Princeton Tec Surge is a really bright, and economical flashlight, costing about $26, with a set of 8 Duracell alkalines. Burn time is published at 3 to 5 hours, with alkaline batteries. Spare lamps are $5.50. They are a 7.5 watt halogen lamp, according to brightguy.com, but they look like a 'standard' high pressure xenon bipin lamp, such as many Streamlight flashlights use. (4AA, 3C). I was curious if MiMH cells would provide enough power for it. I bought 8 new Sunpack 1600 mAH AA cells from eBAy for about $16, including shipping. I charged them up, and did a burn time test. Sorry, I don't have any equipment except for a stopwatch. The light started out very bright; almost as bright as with new alkalines. After about 10 minutes, the light output yellowed a bit, but although it was somewhat yellowish, it was still brighter than my E2. It maintained this output for I hr. and 52 minutes, when the light dimmed quickly. It ran at greatly reduced output for another 8 minutes, approx.

So I got nearly 2 hours of very good light output from the 8 NiMH cells. And of course they can be charged many, many times, and also charged when they are only partly discharged. Also, I'd expect lamp life to be substantialy extended at the lower voltage, up from the estimated 30 hrs. I doubt if there is any other light that can exceed a SureFire E2, in such a small, inexpensive package; and the NiMH bateries will reduce operating costs to almost nothing over the next few years. No, it's not a SureFire E2 in size, but in output, cost, and especially operating costs, even with standard alkaline batteries, it far exceeds the E2 in value. Now that colder weather has decended on my area, my PT Surge has taken up residence in whichever jacket or coat I wear, and will remain with me until the spring, when I will doubtless wish I could carry it with me.

Re: NiMh\'s in a Princeton Tec Surge

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> <snip> I bought 8 new Sunpack 1600 mAH AA cells from eBAy for about $16, including shipping.

I charged them up, and did a burn time test. <snip>

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Gandalf,

You might want to give those NiMH's a few more charge - discharge cycles and do another test. It is quite normal for NiMH's to not come up to maximum storage when new until after 3 to 6 charge - discharge cycles. There are 1800 mAh NiMH available too. ;-)

Rickster

Re: NiMh\'s in a Princeton Tec Surge

I bet the NiMH are close in voltage output to alkalines under load. Does it look noticeably dimmer then alkaline?

As a side note the reason the voltage would go up with 8 batteries is each battery would have to supply 1/2 the load, and then the battery voltage doesn't fall off as much, does that make since?

Re: NiMh\'s in a Princeton Tec Surge

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rickster:
Gandalf,

You might want to give those NiMH's a few more charge - discharge cycles and do another test. It is quite normal for NiMH's to not come up to maximum storage when new until after 3 to 6 charge - discharge cycles. There are 1800 mAh NiMH available too. ;-)

Rickster<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for the charge/discharge information; I wasn't aware of it. I've seen the 1800 mAH batteries, but they cost about 1/3rd more (at least) than the 1600's, while giving only 1/8 more run time. I decided to go for economy, sacrificing a bit of run time.

It'll be interesting to see if the new NiMH cells develop a longer life, after some charge/discharge cycles.

Re: NiMh\'s in a Princeton Tec Surge

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rickster:
Gandalf,

You might want to give those NiMH's a few more charge - discharge cycles and do another test. It is quite normal for NiMH's to not come up to maximum storage when new until after 3 to 6 charge - discharge cycles. There are 1800 mAh NiMH available too. ;-)

Rickster<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have found that same thing. -Both NiMH and Nicads are a bit chemically "stiff" when they are new. So, the more you use 'em, -the better they work.

Re: NiMh\'s in a Princeton Tec Surge

Despite many warnings, I will try Lithiums in my Surge when they arrive. Even if the bulb blows, it's worh it just to satisfy my curiosity. I've also thought about rechargeables but didn't like the fact that they lose charge so rapidly when not used (something like 1% per day). But how about nicads instead of NiMH; isn't it true that they hold their charge almost as well as akalines, and if so why buy NiMH's?

Also, isn't there a bi-pin xenon bulb available at Radio Shack, or wherever, that will burn at slightly reduced intensity, thus prolonging life? Would that also prolong burntime? Since the Surge is so bright in the first place, this small loss of brightness would not be objectionable.

Re: NiMh\'s in a Princeton Tec Surge

Mr. Bright, I have noticed on the newer Ncds and NiMHs that the self-discharge of those cells in actual use, is almost negligible. Also, keep in mind that the loss gets smaller and smaller as time passes because it's based on the remaining capacity of the cell.
About the only time I don't recommend using these type cells is for devices that won't be used very often-like longer than 4-6 months.
One thing I really like about NiMHs is that they can be recharged very quickly -at any point in their discharge cycle.
p.s-I'm a heavy user of these cells (using 20-30 at any one time), and except for their lower 1.3v open circuit voltage, I find that they are extremely versatile and rugged..

Re: NiMh\'s in a Princeton Tec Surge

hmm...NiMH = 1800 mAh, Alkaline = ?

Re: NiMh\'s in a Princeton Tec Surge

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by recercare:
hmm...NiMH = 1800 mAh, Alkaline = ?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

-Of course 2800 on the alks., but 'ya can't recharge 'em 500-600 times though.....

Re: NiMh\'s in a Princeton Tec Surge

Okay, but i don't use NiMHs anyway. Too high selfdischarge and lousy when temperatures drop. I can't use NiMH in winter here

What about Li-Ion or reusable alkalines?

Re: NiMh\'s in a Princeton Tec Surge

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by recercare:

What about Li-Ion or reusable alkalines?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Li-on would be good but cell sizes are kinda limited (much bigger than AA) and their 3.6v output.
The rech. alks. don't seem to perform too well under heavy loads , and their cold weather characteristics aren't any better than regular alkalines.
I like 'em for lighter current loads though...

Re: NiMh\'s in a Princeton Tec Surge

Interesting comments.

I'm a little concerned about that "lousy cold weather performance" of NiMH. Does that also apply to NiCADs? Winter is coming and this is definitely an issue. Also, can you quick-charge NiCADS as you can NiMHs?

Brightnorm

Re: NiMh\'s in a Princeton Tec Surge

hehe, it seems like we're the only one posting for the moment. Why don't the reusable alkalines perform well on high drain? How do you measure this?

Re: NiMh\'s in a Princeton Tec Surge

NiCds perform much better at low temperatures. NiMH operates down to -15/-20C while NiCds down to -40C. NiCds charged faster than NiMHs earlier, but i am not sure about the new NiMHs though

Re: NiMh\'s in a Princeton Tec Surge

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by recercare:
hehe, it seems like we're the only one posting for the moment. Why don't the reusable alkalines perform well on high drain? How do you measure this?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Past experience (5yrs) shows me that the rech. alks. work just great with LED flashlights etc.
but poorly perform when trying to power up incand.-esp. halogen lamps and other high drain devices. They go down after just 10-15 min. under 500mA+ loads. Also, their rated capacity is only 1500-1600mAh or so..

Re: NiMh\'s in a Princeton Tec Surge

Do you know the max mA loads for NiCd, NiMH and Li-Ion?

Re: NiMh\'s in a Princeton Tec Surge

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by recercare:
Do you know the max mA loads for NiCd, NiMH and Li-Ion?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Depends on the cell's physical size, of course...Are we talking about AAs?
Somewhere recently someone posted batt. size capacities, and also max. recommended loads for different types.
Brock-I think?..
Can't find it right now
Try search under "batteries included" section?

Re: NiMh\'s in a Princeton Tec Surge

I don't know for sure, lithium are the best for high drain, but not rechargable. Ni-Cad are the best for rechargable high drain, but Ni-MH are close and have a higher capacity overall. NiMH are usually rated about 1 hour discahrge, so a 1800mA AA cell should put out about 1.8 amps for 1 hour, while NiCad's are good to about 1/2 hour or 900mA could put out 1800mA for 30 minutes.

Re: NiMh\'s in a Princeton Tec Surge

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Brock:
I don't know for sure, Li-ion are the best for high drain, but not rechargable. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmm...Li-Ion IS rechargeable as far as i know. I'm just wondering how much you can "drain" a NiCD, NiMH and Li-Ion regardless of the reduced run time.

Re: NiMh\'s in a Princeton Tec Surge

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by recercare:
hmm...NiMH = 1800 mAh, Alkaline = ?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

All mAh specs are not created equal ... Those who can answer the following question know why ...

Why is it I can get 4 times the runtime on my Nikon Coolpix 990 digial camera with NiMH (1600 mAh ) than I can with Ultra Alkalines ( 2800 mAh )?


I can post the dirty details later.