AW's Rechargeable solution vs. Batterystation's

Longbow

Enlightened
Joined
May 15, 2004
Messages
591
Location
Wisconsin, USA
Re: AW\'s Rechargeable solution vs. Batterystation\'

They don't sell solutions (like for cleaning), just batteries and flashlight related goods.
 

Anglepoise

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 4, 2004
Messages
1,554
Location
Pacific Northwest
Re: AW\'s Rechargeable solution vs. Batterystation\'

I am using AW's MP 700 r123 batteries with the Nano charger.
Unprotected, they are perfect for an application that uses just one r123. I have been very happy with these batteries in Aleph II, using Wiz2 with low voltage cutoff. Also PD and QIII.
 

seattlite

Enlightened
Joined
Dec 23, 2004
Messages
659
Location
PNW
Re: AW\'s Rechargeable solution vs. Batterystation\'

[ QUOTE ]
AFAustin said:
For LED CR123 lights, can someone please give the pros and cons of AW's rechargeable solution http://www.candlepowerforums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB29&Number=962058&fpart=1&PHPSESSID=

vs. Batterystation.com's http://www.batterystation.com/cpf.htm

I have a SF E2L and am trying to decide.

Thanks very much.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been using Batterstation protected R123's with great success in my Error E2L. However, I've seen numerous posts from other members that use MP and Batteryspace unprotected R123's to drive a P90 or P91(2xR123). I still feel uneasy using unprotected R123 in a 2xR123 application, but others have had great success. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif
 

AFAustin

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 10, 2004
Messages
1,800
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outside of Austin, TX
Re: AW\'s Rechargeable solution vs. Batterystation\'

Thanks, gentlemen, for the info. What exactly are the dangers with unprotected CR123s?
 

SilverFox

Flashaholic
Joined
Jan 19, 2003
Messages
12,449
Location
Bellingham WA
Re: AW\'s Rechargeable solution vs. Batterystation\'

Hello AFAustin,

In general, Lithium cells need to be protected from over charging, over discharging, and high current draws (including dead shorts).

Over charging results in reduced cycle life as long as the voltage is kept below 4.4 volts. At around 4.5 volts they go into thermal run away resulting in "rapid venting with flame." At 4.4 volts, they are good for about 5 cycles, then die. At 4.2 volts, they are good for about 200-500 cycles. At 4.1 volts, the cycles go up to around 1500. It should also be pointed out that charging at too high a current can also damage the longevity of the cell.

Over discharging (and storing cells at a low state of charge) has the effect of forming copper shunts inside the cell. The next time the cell is charged, these shunts form micro shorts that reduce the cells capacity and raise the cells internal resistance. When enough of them form, the cell shorts out with "rapid venting with flame" during the charging cycle (or sometimes while resting after a charge).

Too high a current draw will cause the chemistry to heat up. When the temperature gets high enough, thermal runaway occurs which results in "rapidly venting with flame."

Using two (or more) cells in series can allow some imbalance between the cells. A special case occurs when one cell drops to a low voltage before the others. The other cells try to "charge" the dead cell up rapidly, resulting in high currents and cell voltage reversal. This can result in "rapid venting with flame."

Protected cells have a circuit that can address these issues. The protection circuit takes space, so the downside is that protected cells have reduced capacity.

Tom
 

Codeman

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 26, 2004
Messages
2,690
Re: AW\'s Rechargeable solution vs. Batterystation\'

Great summary, Tom! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 

Bullzeyebill

Flashaholic
Joined
Feb 21, 2003
Messages
12,164
Location
CA
Re: AW\'s Rechargeable solution vs. Batterystation\'

I use two unprotected RCR123's in C2 with P91 LA. I monitor the voltage of the cells often, and they are discharging at an even rate. I use two protected Battery Station cells in my 6P with BugOut Gear drop in, and it is sort of nice to see the light turn off when voltage drops into LDO range. Of course, I always have an extra light handy.

Bill

Bill
 

AFAustin

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 10, 2004
Messages
1,800
Location
outside of Austin, TX
Re: AW\'s Rechargeable solution vs. Batterystation\'

Tom,

Thanks very much for the detailed info. I believe this novice will stick with protected cells for now!
 

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