wow run ya disel on 70 cents per gallon

raggie33

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today i was watching a show on cable they was showing a kit they used used vedgetbale oil from restaunuts and lye and a little methenol to make biodisel and he said its bertter then real disel . man it looked vewry simple to do aint sure what the kit cost but id guess 300 bucks it looks like ya could make one easly if ya had that kinda talemnt
 

PhotonWrangler

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I recently read about a hybrid gas/oil vehicle that's equipped with two gas tanks. The regular gas tank is switched in for starting and the car runs on regular gas until the engine warms up. Once it comes up to operating temperature, the owner throws a switch and the car switches to the alternate tank that's filled with used vegetable oil that's collected from local restaurants.

One of the odd side effects of running on this alternative fuel is that the exhaust smells like... french fries. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif
 

raggie33

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this was a regeler diesle truck he just emptied his tank and added the biodiesle he made i was shokced there was no mods to make it run on the disel
 

Brock

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Nope, no mods at all. I am running 100% bio right now. Although it was quite a bit more then $.70 per gallon. If you make it yourself it can be cheap, under $1, but the starting equipment is about $3k to $5k and your time to make it. And yes it does smell like something burning in a deep fryer /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I am sure Ikendu will pop in here soon /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 

raggie33

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on the program today it apeared to take 4 hours .here is a kit i found on internet but its not the same one i saw on tv today so id reseach it if i was you before a pourcahse but cool as hect anyway not haveing to depend on middle eastern oil
 

ikendu

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[ QUOTE ]
Brock said:I am sure Ikendu will pop in here soon /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

You have stroked theee lamp and I respond to your summons... what knowledge may I supply at your bidding? >appears from glowing puff of smoke< /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Yes. This is one of those few areas that I really know something about.

We are talking about home brew biodiesel.

I helped start a "club" in my area for guys wanting to home brew their own biodiesel. Two of the guys had already been making small amounts in (literally) a 5-gallon bucket (not the best practice BTW).

The ingrediants cost about 45 cents per gallon for lye and methanol. The club doles out home brew to its members for about $1 dues per 1 gallon of home brew biodiesel. The extra dues go for capital improvements to the processor and other facilities.

The basic chemistry is simple:

1. Find a restaurant to donate used fryer oil

Most restaurants pay anywhere from 15-90 cents/gal to have their used grease (mostly oil from the fryers) hauled away by a "renderer". These companies take the used grease and turn it into pet food and other products. So... haven't seen a restaurant yet that wasn't happy to give it away to someone else at no charge. Big chains like McDonalds or Burger King don't usually work because the local mgmt doesn't have the authority to do something different.

2. Strain out the bits of food, etc.
3. Mix up some reactant

The basic chemistry going on is to make the vegetable oil "thinner" so it will flow like diesel fuel through the fuel injectors. You do this by removing the glycerin molecule from the oil. Glycerin is the thick stuff that hand soaps or shampoos are made of.

The glycerin is broken off by the use of a strong "base" (lye). Most people use sodium hydroxide (like Red Devil lye for clearing drains). The club I know likes to use potassium hydroxide.

The remaining hydrocarbon chains from the vegetable oil want to re-join with something...so you mix in an alcohol to bind it all up into a fuel which is very much like diesel fuel in its properties. Most people use methanol for the alcohol (made from natural gas) but you can use ethanol (they do in Europe). Using ethanol makes a superior cold weather form of biodiesel but the reaction is trickier for home brewers to get right using ethanol.

If you pre-mix lye and methanol, you get what we call methoxide. BTW...in this early stage, you are dealing with some fairly bad chemicals. The lye can eat through your skin and the methanol can cause blindness or even be fatal if absorbed thru the skin...so you have to be pretty careful when mixing or pouring these chemicals. You don't want to breathe methanol or methoxide fumes.

Still...we handle Red Devil lye all the time in our society and methanol is what model airplane folks use for their fuel (also used for racing fuel). You just need to be careful at this stage.

4. Warm up the oil

The reaction goes most completely and quickly at about 130F.

5. Mix in the reactants

The club I know of uses an electric water heater for a reaction vessel and a small pump to circulate the oil, lye and methanol so they are well mixed. The guys that were making it in 5-gallon buckets had a drill with a long shank poked thru the closed lid of the bucket to mix the oil. Doing it this way with a bucket allows too much opportunity to breathe methanol fumes and splash nasty chemicals IMHO. But...they did it that way for a while with no adverse effects.

6. Let it sit 24 hours.

The glycerin needs to settle out of the mixture (it is heavier then the biodiesel) so most people just walk away after mixing and let it sit overnight. The next morning, they open a valve at the bottom of the reaction vessel (water heater) and drain off the dark liquid. Some people use the gylcerin as a shop degreaser and you can burn it at high temperatures (like a shop waste oil burner). Some simply hand it over to the waste handling agency in their area. I suppose some of that stuff ends up in a landfill...which is where some of the waste oil would have ended up anyway, only now the volume has been reduced by about 80%.

7. "Washing"

The remaining biodiesel may contain some unused lye, unreacted methanol and/or glycerin that didn't quite settle out yet. The best biodiesel doesn't contain any of these things so... some people (most I think) "wash" the home brew biodiesel before they use it.

This is a delicate stage 'cause if you agitate the mixture, any glycerin that is still in the mix could make the whole thing quite "soapy" and take forever to settle out after that. So people do a "mist wash". They pump the biodiesel into an open 55 gallon drum and then gently mist water over the surface. The mist settles down through the oil (oil is lighter than water) and collects any leftovers along the way. A 55 gallon batch might have a couple of gallons of water misted as a wash.

You let this settle overnight again, and drain off the water from the bottom (or pull the biodiesel off of the top). The very best home brew biodiesel is like wine... you let it sit for a while before consuming, this gives anything else a chance to settle out (glycerin, water, whatever) before you use it.

So... how much time does all of this take?

The big time consumers are:

1. Collecting the oil
2. Mixing the first batch
3. Draining and washing

Most of the elapsed time is simply letting it sit.

I've heard home brew biodiesel compared to heating your house with wood; finding, cutting, splitting, letting it season, etc. That's probably not too far off.

The guys in our local club (about 5 members) share the duties and pitch in dues to pay for the ingrediants and improvements to the processor. In the end, they pay about $1/gal for their fuel. I'm paying $2.60/gal for manufactured biodiesel right now.

Is it worth it? They think so. It's not for everyone. They "brew" once/week and make a kind of party out of it.

BTW...the finished biodiesel is extremely safe to store and transport as a fuel. The flash point (the temp at which a fuel will self-volatize and ignite in the presence of a spark or a flame) for fuels we use is as follows:

Gasoline:........-45F <--- Wow! Dangerous stuff!! (anyone remember exploding Pinto gas tanks?)
Diesel fuel:...+125F <--- Much, much safer
BioDiesel:.....+300F <--- Very, very safe.

There's more on BioDiesel at my web site: itsgood4.us
 

GalvanickLucifer

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I saw this page: Grease Car some time ago and thought it was pretty funny. With current fuel costs however, it is starting to sound practical. I'm curious though - it looks like this setup burns the grease directly, instead of converting it (extracting glycerin from what I read above.) Would this method have higher emissions than bio-diesel?
 

raggie33

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am i right in assumeing biodisel requirs the glow plugs to run longer so to the higher temp required to ignite. or is the comtpresion in disel motors so high its way over that temp any way?
 

cobb

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Reggie, it only works in diesel engines. DIesel engines use either glow plugs or a heater. Some larger commercial ones use direct injection and do not need glow plugs and no diesel engine uses sparkplugs.

I was reading on homepower where this guy put in a second tank and antifreeze heat exchanger to preheat the oil and would switch over from diesel fuel to filtered oil to run the car. I believe it was a mercedes 300 td. GM a while back had a multifuel diesel engine that would run off of a few oils inaddition to diesel fuel with no modifications.

I believe the show in question was trucks on spike tv. I saw it too. He had a kit that contained several containers hooked by a pump and tubing and multiple valves. Basically you switched the valves and turned on the pump for different stages of the process. Part of it require some work and some knowledge. The skipped the step where he had a large barrow in the back of his truck full of 30 gallons of oil, then once in the shop it was on the floor behind the truck still full as he inserted a tube and pumped it into his rig to process it.

BTW, lye isnt something you want to fool with. It can eat through anything but glass. NOthing like putting too much lye in an engine washer machine and find the bottom of the cabnet was eaten through and you have fluid all in the shop.
 

raggie33

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i think i used lye before it aite right thru a aluminum cooking pan i got it on hands and i was paying attn it hurt so bad
 

Zelandeth

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Not sure about the US, but a lot of people over here (UK) have been penalised BADLY by the customs and excise guys, because of not paying fuel duty on the oil - that's right, used vegetable oil, we're expected to give the government (about $0.50/litre as I recall) duty, if we want to use it for fuel! - even if we collect/process it ourselves. Am I the only one who thinks that's crazy?

Know a few people who've got cars running on Bioldiesel, and at least one of them makes it themselves, these are all older cars, and I reckon they actually run smoother on it than they do on regular diesel!
 

Marty Weiner

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I'm watching that program on SPIKE TV right now. It's called TRUCKS! with Stacey David.

The unit is called FuelMeister from Freedom Fuel America. He hasn't mentioned the price but went through all of the steps to make 20 gallons of BioDiesel.

Very interesting!
 

ikendu

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[ QUOTE ]
Zelandeth said:....I reckon they actually run smoother on it than they do on regular diesel!

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been running my VW Golf TDI now for over 44,000 miles on biodiesel. It absolutely runs smoother, cleaner and quieter on biodiesel. It has a cetane of about 50. Normal diesel fuel is about 45 or as low as 40. The higher the cetane, the smoother it runs.
 

ikendu

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[ QUOTE ]
GalvanickLucifer said:...burns the grease directly, instead of converting it (extracting glycerin from what I read above.) Would this method have higher emissions than bio-diesel?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. Also, modern high pressure injectors (like my 2003 VW TDI) don't deal with the thicker oil so well. It must be thinned in a heated fuel tank (to about 165 degrees) to even be thin enough for older diesel designs.
 

ikendu

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[ QUOTE ]
raggie33 said:
am i right in assumeing biodisel requirs the glow plugs to run longer so to the higher temp required to ignite. or is the comtpresion in disel motors so high its way over that temp any way?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, the compression and resulting temperature of the compressed air are high enough that the higher flash point of biodiesel is no problem.

Diesel engines ignite the fuel with this hot air. Glow plugs are used only momentarily to heat up the cylinder when it is cold as a temporary boost before the engine gets running. In the coldest part of the winter, my glow plugs come on for maybe 4-5 seconds. After that, the process continues on its own with no glow plugs, no spark plugs, just hot, compressed air with fuel injected into it at the right time.
 

BEpsilon

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Wow, this is a great discussion thread. I am very interested in biodiesel, but because my two cars use gasoline, I don't have the incentives to begin such experiment. However, if I'm in the market for a new vehicle, I will definitely consider diesel (or better yet, diesel/electric hybird). I don't know about Japanese cars, but almost all Euro-3 or Euro-4 diesel engines can run 100% biodiesel.

About that "appleseed" biodiesel processor, will the interior of that water heater rust overtime?

For the washing part, which I believe is a must, I've heard one could use those pneumatic silencers (connected to an air pump or compressor). Is that OK?
 

ikendu

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[ QUOTE ]
BEpsilon said:...my two cars use gasoline

[/ QUOTE ]

This is where I was in March, 2003. I sold one of my gas hog vehicles (37 mpg Civic) and bought my 49 mpg VW Golf TDI. Never looked back...been happy ever since! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[ QUOTE ]
BEpsilon said: About that "appleseed" biodiesel processor, will the interior of that water heater rust overtime?

[/ QUOTE ]

Water heaters are "glass lined" which I believe means they have a layer of ceramic over the metal (although I've never taken one apart).

[ QUOTE ]
BEpsilon said:For the washing part, which I believe is a must, I've heard one could use those pneumatic silencers (connected to an air pump or compressor). Is that OK?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't have any experience with that. There is a very active "home brewers" site at localb100.com.
 

BEpsilon

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Too bad my community aren't that active on biodiesel. Even I won't be making any, I would like to be hands-on in the building process.

Sorry about the confusion. It looks like the link you provided (thanks!) mentioned bubble-wash - what I'm trying to describe. Sites I've been to before (http://www.journeytoforever.org/) did not mention mist-wash, only bubble-wash.

Anyway, does waste cooking oil stinks? To me, collecting/transporting waste cooking oil will be one obstacle.

How many gallons do you usually make in one pass? How about storage capacity?
 
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