Arctic silvered Luxeon3 emitter removal? Ideas?

3rd_shift

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I put together a 4x3 on a copper heatsink last week.
4 TYOHs. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mecry.gif
When I fired it up, some of the emitter's temps shot way up indicating that they had not sat all the way down into their mounting pits on the heatsink. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
In 60 seconds, some of the emitters were at 170 degreesF while the heatsink was only 110F. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
I would like to find a safe way to remove, clean up and with a little help from a Dremel, properly remount these emitters. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif
 

3rd_shift

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Re: Arctic silvered Luxeon3 emitter removal? Ideas

DSC00527.jpg
 

chimo

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Re: Arctic silvered Luxeon3 emitter removal? Ideas

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hahaha.gifJust flex it like a star. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif

But seriously, here's how I would approach it.

Looks like you have some grooves to work with. I would by finding a flat tool slightly smaller than the straight grooves that pass through the divots for the emitter slugs. Picture a small egg flipper type spatula. You could probably get some small jewellers screwdrivers at a dollar store and file the appropriate one a little flatter.

Before starting, you may want to take an exacto knife and "score" through any Arctic Silver that is exposed around the edges of the emitters.

Heat the copper heatsink a bit to help soften the epoxy a bit. Take the prying device you just made and slowly work it under the emitter via the groove to gently pop it off. Ensure you don't start prying up until you are fairly sure your tool is under the slug and not just under the plastic surrounding the emitter.

Good luck!
 

IsaacHayes

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Re: Arctic silvered Luxeon3 emitter removal? Ideas

Yup, get a blow torch or other method of heating up the disc. Get it nice and hot, then put something where the epoxy relief grooves are and try to get to the slug to pry it up. If it isn't setteled down far enought, getting the tool under the slug should be even easier...

Perhaps a cheap screw driver, and grind the tip very thin, and then bend the screw driver tip so that the angle is better for getting under it..
 

cy

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Re: Arctic silvered Luxeon3 emitter removal? Ideas

You will probably destroy your emitter tying to get it off.

this is why I've all but stop using AA epoxy.

prefered method is AA grease enough to cover metal slug only. Then aply small drop of super glue to plastic base. glue will wick all way around.

then press down on emitter for 1-2 minutes until superglue sets. you now have a solidly mounted emitter with proper contact grease.

To remove simply pry on plastic base and emitter will release without damage.
 

evan9162

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Re: Arctic silvered Luxeon3 emitter removal? Ideas

How about this? - It's a little crazy, but it's another way

Get a micro drill bit (something like 1/2 mm), and drill directly below the center of each emitter. Go in just a bit at a time until you get right to the bottom of the heat sink slug. Then invert the heat sink, insert a tiny pin, and tap it with a hammer - should pop the emitter off the heat sink. You'll be removing a miniscule amount of the heat sink below the emitter, but it'll let you push directly on the middle of the slug (the strongets part of it) to pop it off the heat sink.

I can try this technique when I get home tonight on something with a similar setup to make sure it's a viable method.
 

cy

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Re: Arctic silvered Luxeon3 emitter removal? Ideas

evan, what a killer idea! don't see why this should not work

please let us know how you come out...
 

VidPro

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Re: Arctic silvered Luxeon3 emitter removal? Ideas

i gotta say, superglue will screw you in eventuality.
i used the small superglue method on a heat sink, with thermal compound on the rest of it, it was totally secure , i could grab it with my hand and wrench on it, and it was stuck good.
about 8 months later i hear a Clunk, and the stupid sync had fallen right off, almost shorted out my computer :-(

what has ANYBODY ever fixed with chronoacrilate and had it functional 2 years later?
i just have to mention that, because of all the times i was Burned by the product, i am sure it serves some purpose, but longevity has never been one of them.

what if he does the pinhole, then injects more epoxy?

how about a side injection, into the channels?

it looks like the emitter may have settled on top of the depression, instead of inside it???
if you Pulled the emitter off of something it WAS initially attached to (a star) , i wonder if you could have altered the hunk of black plastic then, and had a bit of difference in the way it normally sits.

the channels do give you a chance to get Under the plastic, and TO the metal, so you can apply the force on the metalic base, after you razered around the edges of the plastic, so it doesnt break.

that stuff is soft for a few hours, after 24 or more, its lots harder.
 

evan9162

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Re: Arctic silvered Luxeon3 emitter removal? Ideas

Alright, here's a summary of the pinhole technique:

What you'll need:
Drill press
block of wood with 1/2" hole or larger
Tiny drill bits (like the Dremel drill bit set)
Small diameter steel pin as small as possible to match hole from above bits
hammer
pliers
patience, steady hand, luck


I had a Lux I on a small finned heatsink. To simulate doing this on a flat disk heat sink, I ripped all the fins off. Here's the subject:

freelux1.jpg


and here's the backside:

freelux2.jpg


Between the two holes where the power wires were is the center of the emitter.

I put the heat sink emitter-side down into a hole drilled in a block of wood - this keeps things steady and puts all of the pressure on the heat sink.

Drill down VERY SLOWLY - pull up often and blow away the resulting chips (this is why you need a drill press)...at the fist hint of any copper in the shavings, stop. I used the smallest then second smallest bits in a Dremel drill bit set (since I couldn't find a steel pin the size of the smallest one - but if you have one that small, go with the smallest hole possible)

Here's the hole:

freelux3.jpg


See the copper at the end of the hole - that's the emitter slug. You'll drill into it a bit, but no big deal.

Then, with the heat sink on the same wooden block as before, I put a steel pin into the hole, steadied it with some pliers, and gave it a few raps with a hammer.

Here's the result:

freelux4.jpg


The emitter freed from the heat sink! It still lights up, so no damage except for a small divit in the slug.


Crap - I just remembered that you're using a copper heat sink - so you might look for the silver coating of the slug to appear in the metal shavings, or put a mark/tape on the drill bit for the maximum depth - the above works well for an aluminium heat sink.
 

3rd_shift

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Re: Arctic silvered Luxeon3 emitter removal? Ideas

It's looking promising.
I do have one spare TYOH left even if all I get is 3 out of survivors out of this.
I'll swing by a store, or two to get a baby flathead screwdriver to get up under there with. ( Thanks Chimo! )

If it looks like a no-go, then it will be evan9162's idea next at this point.
I'll try it tomorrow evening but check back here 1st to see if any other ideas landed in this thread.
 

cy

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Re: Arctic silvered Luxeon3 emitter removal? Ideas

evan, looking good!

Vidpro, I would not use superglue on something large as a heatsink for PC.

emitters I've done with superglue has only been on aprox. one year with no failures due to heat. quite a big differance of holding grams VS a much larger mass

AA expoxy will hold better. time will tell how the superglue method works.

there is no reason you could not use AA expoxy on plastic rim only with AA grease on metal slug.
 

rantanplan

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Re: Arctic silvered Luxeon3 emitter removal? Ideas

A common technique of removing glued heatsinks from graphic cards is to put them in a freezer. The cold glue becomes brittle and some well dosed force will do the trick. I don´t know if this works with AA epoxy. The recessed position of the emitter could be a problem, otherwise I would use a freezer, a piece of wood with a notch and ... some momentum from a hammer /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif.

But they are TYOH ... so I would think twice about every approach /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 

Reptilezs

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Re: Arctic silvered Luxeon3 emitter removal? Ideas

maybe you could give the heatsink some thermal cycles? heat it up then quickly cool it down
 

Anglepoise

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Re: Arctic silvered Luxeon3 emitter removal? Ideas

There is a product called 'Attack" that is used by the lapidary industry to disolve epoxy. They use epoxy to attach gem stones to 'dop' rods to aid cutting. I have used attack and it works as advertised.
 

3rd_shift

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Re: Arctic silvered Luxeon3 emitter removal? Ideas

[ QUOTE ]
Anglepoise said:
There is a product called 'Attack" that is used by the lapidary industry to disolve epoxy. They use epoxy to attach gem stones to 'dop' rods to aid cutting. I have used attack and it works as advertised.

[/ QUOTE ]

This could be just what I'm looking for. Any links for this product?
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif
 

VidPro

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Re: Arctic silvered Luxeon3 emitter removal? Ideas

[ QUOTE ]
cy said:
evan, looking good!

Vidpro, I would not use superglue on something large as a heatsink for PC.

emitters I've done with superglue has only been on aprox. one year with no failures due to heat. quite a big differance of holding grams VS a much larger mass

AA expoxy will hold better. time will tell how the superglue method works.

there is no reason you could not use AA expoxy on plastic rim only with AA grease on metal slug.

[/ QUOTE ]

i was thinking more on this, and the resons might be "disimilar materials" chronoacrilate, is sort of a crystaline bond, with 2 things that expand and contract at different rates (like chip containers, and aluminum) the crystaline molecular bond can be broken in small pieces at a time.
Because both of those parts would have huge expansion and contraction differences, the bond could be whittled away till there is none.

course still it aint never held anything i have used it on for a ammount of time, even foam tape (not to usefull here) fixed things have held thier bond longer than stuperglue.
 

cy

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Re: Arctic silvered Luxeon3 emitter removal? Ideas

Vidpro, solution is to use tried and true AA expoxy on plastic rim and AA grease on metal slug.

you get the best of both, solidly mounted, but can be removed without damage.
 

yaesumofo

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I would just tap a small (TINY) flat head into the groove. you should be able to just pop them out. Like a chisel.
Good luck getting the epoxy off. That is the tough part.
At this late stage you have probably already done it.
Yaesumofo
 
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