Aurora and USL-Class Power Output

Ginseng

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This post was returned to the thread on 2/8/06.

I just did a little refurbishing of the Aurora prototype. Many of you will recognize the Aurora 3D Mag as one of the inspirations behind Bill Waites' original "Mule" and the ongoing USL project. After a year of mostly sitting around not seeing much action, I fired her up and found that the output was not quite what at the level I remembered. It turns out that several of the KAN1800 4/5A cells had sprung leaks. This was the second Aurora pack containing KAN cells that self-destructed.

So, I built a new power pack out of 11 x GP2000 4/5A cells. GP cells are regarded as some of the best out there for high current applications. Fortunately or unfortunately, depending on how you see it, the output voltage of the GP cells was much stronger than that of the the KANs even when they were new and the Aurora's primary light engine, the 50-hour life Osram 62138HLX was not able to handle it. Three bulbs later, I confirmed that this was absolutely the case.

The unfortunate aspect is that the 62138 has a very compact axial filament and thus throws a nice spot for such a large bulb. The fortunate aspect is that the higher voltage means more overdrive. So, never being one to resist more overdrive I soldered on another cell making it a 12-cell GP2000 pack.

Initial cycling at 3A showed the GP cells to perform pretty much as expected if a bit short in capacity. Voltage stability was good. Since these cells were "zapped" I was anxious to see how they would hold up under extreme loads. According to the GP literature, the GP2000 should deliver a MPV (mid-point voltage) of 1.17-1.18V. This is in agreement with the value of 1.17V I measured at 4.25C. This is significantly better than the 1.09V MPV of the KAN1800 cells. I was, however, disappointed that the GP2000 did not deliver more duration than the KAN1800. Output ran strong until pooping out right around the 10-minute mark. The pack got quite warm.

But what to use for a light engine? Well, the only other decent 12V/100W in this output range (2,800 lumens at spec) was the 2000-hr life Osram 64623HLX. Though the filament is much larger and transverse instead of axial, it was the bulb with which I did the original Aurora development and I still had a few around. Calculations showed that at 14V, this bulb would still have over 300 hours of life. Even better, it would make an estimated 4,800 lumens. Very nice indeed.

And so in it went. Well, if one were to ask if it's possible to tell the difference between 3,000-ish lumens and 5,000-ish lumens, the answer is an emphatic yes. Compared to my modified Vector 2MCP spot which now sports a 62138 bulb, the output is a staggering step up in visual impact and color temperature. And with the 3" turbo head, the spot is not bad at all.

Here's a graph I generated using some data from the original Aurora and the new Aurora V2. You can see that adding an additional cell results in more than one cell's worth of voltage bump. Credit this to the mighty GP2000. The calculated lumens (at the bulb) are arrived at using the generally accepted formula of (Lumens at the spec voltage)*(Vactual/Vspec)^3.5.

So what might this mean to those waiting on the USL? Since the CBP1650 hold voltage even better than the KAN1800 and the USL pack is an 11-cell unit, I'd interpolate the voltage and lumen curves to be between those of the Aurora V1 and Aurora V2. Probably closer to the V1 curves. Probably just above the 3,000 lumen mark at the midpoint of discharge. Another important thing to keep in mind is that these curves are for continuous runs to an ending cell voltage of 0.9V. If you use the light in intermittent squirts with some rest time in between, you'll get a lot more total runtime and your squirts will all be closer to the high end. That's 4,000-ish for the USL and 6,000-ish for the Aurora2.
Aurora2.gif


I apologize if someone on the USL list has already presented output data on that unit. Of course it would be more accurate...but I just haven't kept up with all the USL threads.

What do you think?

Wilkey
 
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Ginseng

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Oops! I just did a current measurement and instead of the 8.5A I was guessing, the system is pushing just over 10A. Yikes, that's 140 watts on average.

Hi Larry,
I might be iffy for this weekend. I will try.

Wilkey
 

AuroraLite

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Hi, Ginseng-Hotwire-Master.

Looks really cool! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

I am kinda curious about the cells used in these Super hotwire mods--is the cell leak mostly due to certain brand or mostly caused by chemistry of the high amp cells? Or is it simply an isolated incident?

And from your experience, do we have somekind of calculation/estimation as how much actual lumens are these monster putting out thru the front business end?

Btw, any comparitive beamshots between the Aurora V1 and V2? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 

Ginseng

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Aurora,

About the cells, I can say there has been some recent bad experience with the KAN brand. I've heard from someone in the industry that they've "lost the recipe" meaning their quality is off. Who knows how accurate this is and to what extent the problem is there. I've used quite a few different cells in soldered packs and only the KAN have ever leaked. IIRC, Jim Sexton has also had a few go bad in this manner.

There is no accurate conversion factor for lumens at bulb to lumens out the front. Based on some work that PaulW did (and no other correlations have been done since then AFAIK) with Mag reflectors, 60-65% is one factor. I suspect this number is a bit higher using reflectors with small ream holes such as the MagCharger and Aurora. Still, best guess is that this number is probably never going to be over 70% due to a whole host of factors. I know there are folks out there ready to debate the transmission number, but fact of the matter is, if we all settle on a number and use it as a de facto standard, then at least we'd have a consistent basis for making comparisons. It may not be theoretically rigorous or empirically robust, but it would be practically useful.

I can only do beamshots of the Vector 2MCP-62138 and Aurora2 now as I have no more 11-cell packs. I'll try to get some tonight.

Wilkey
 

bwaites

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Some VERY recent published work on flashlight reflectors showed a 30% loss, with a BRAND NEW reflector.

I came across it accidently last week, and forgot to bookmark it, so I'll have to try and track it down, but I believe that most are going to be in the 30-40% range under normal circumstances.

Bill
 

xpitxbullx

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So does the reflector actually absorb the photons? What's the most reflective material thats heat resistant?

Jeff
 

bwaites

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Some is out the back of the reflector, through the hole. Obviously, smaller is better.

Some is lost simply to internal reflection that never makes it out the front.

Some is lost to the window (lens)

And some is absorbed by the "light booogey monster"!:)

Someone more adept at optics will have to give you the whole breakdown!

Bill
 

AuroraLite

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Ginseng

Thanks for the reply, it is good to know that the incident might most likely be caused by a 'brand' instead of a general thing. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I too do totally agree that if we were to talk lumens, it is probably be best to leave it as bulb lumens, since it seems like there are probably many factors in play to 'compare' on a even ground. Hmmm...a 30-40% loss due to lens/reflectors/others, now I am wondering what kind/direction of new technology/improvement will there be to lower that lose?

Bwaites
When you and Ginseng both mentioned the 'light' is loss to the 'back' of reflector, what does it really mean?

Does it mean the photons are so strong that it will 'leak' thru really thinner part of the reflector to the back of it(Never played with a Magcharger in the past /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif )? Or does the reflector have very, very tiny holes on it(to ventilate?)?
 

HarryN

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One path to help with the battery pack / run time / lamp area is to actually use an active voltage regulator in the design. In my case, I have picked up a pair of 30 watt / 12 volt power supplies with a 4:1 input range, nominal 85 - 90% efficient. This particular unit has a 4:1 Vin range, most are 2:1.

The potential gains I am looking for are:
- In my case, I have a custom made body specifically made for 8 cells (4 per chamber) and I wanted to be able to run 8 x standard 123, as well as 8 x Ni based 123 size.
- The particular power supply I purchased has buck / boost (so it can run from 9 V - 40 V in) (at least in theory.)
- I wanted to maintain a relatively constant power on my light source, and the 12 V will sag slightly, then shut down, if you try to pull more than its rating. (in this case, 2500ma)
- It has a variety of safety features to keep me from killing myself such as protection from opens and shorts.

You can also obtain them in other voltages, such as 15 V, and there is some ability to adjust the V out.

Price wise, these are not for the faint hearted, as these were around $60 / each. 100 watt versions (also physically larger) are in the $ 120 range.

There is a nominal 10 % loss of power in the regulation, but that is pretty good compared to the "actual" results of a WH setup. Many firms make DC:DC power supplies - just run a simple web search.
 

bwaites

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Auroralite,

Both Ginseng and I were talking about the hole in the reflector that the bulb fits through. In regular mags, this hole around a 1/2" in diameter, (actually a little more if I remember right) and in a MagCharger about .33 of an inch (once again if I recall correctly).

Some of the light actually leaks out that hole. How much? Well, only an integrated sphere will tell us, and who cares, since we really can't do much with it anyway?

So the best solution is to have an opening only as big as necessary to let the light through, no larger.

Bill
 

AuroraLite

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Bwaites,

Thanks for the info! Haha...of course, the reflector opening to bulb! That ought to be one of my stupiest question ever asked here before next! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Best of luck to your USL project, and to Ginseng, the Polaris! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 

Ginseng

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Pitbull,
All materials absorb at some wavelength. Of course, the optical part of the spectrum is what we're interested in. Protected aluminum is actually quite good and protected silver is even better. For obvious reasons, aluminum is the most common reflective coating for general purpose optics and it is what Carley, Mag and Surefire use.

As for losses, photons never just disappear. They are either absorbed or scattered. Absorption affects both the lux and lumen measurements while scattering will only affect lux. Bill listed a pretty complete list of loss points.

Aurora,
I don't know what developments are possible or in the works. I mean, vac dep aluminum is an amazing combination of cheapness and performance. I've done vac dep alum and you just tear off a piece of aluminum wire and hook it up to power. Pump down, power up and voila, instant coating. In the continuous processes, alum wire gets melted in ceramic boats as film to be coated is wafted over it at 1,000 feet per minute. Cheap, fast and effective.

Harry,
Those are much more expensive that the PWM LVRs that Willie Hunt used to sell. But, the specs sound compelling.

Wilkey
 

Ginseng

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Here are some pretty bad night photos. The exposure was a bit too high I think and so the hotspot is sort of washed out. The first photo is of the MagCharger85. This is a good throwing light with the WA01185 driven by 9x2100mAh Sanyo AAs. The second picture is of the Vector 2MCP spotlight. This one has been modified to take the Osram 62138HLX bulb used in the original Aurora. It is a significant step up from the stock bulb and for some idea of what the difference is, you can check out the original, now locked, Aurora thread. It won't be quite as bright as the Aurora1 though, as the bulb is not overdriven on the stock lead acid cell. The third picture is of the Aurora2. Nice and hot in the center with tons of spill.

All shots were taken with my Sony DCR-PC120BT digital videocam in low lux mode. Exposure locked. All lights were on for about 30 seconds before snapping the pics. Distance to target about 50-60 feet.

MC85.jpg


Vector2MCP62138.jpg


Aurora2.jpg


Wilkey
 

KevinL

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Imagine this..

I'm scrolling slowly through the posts, I see the Magcharger pic, I scroll down a little and think wow, that is one BADASS light.

Then I scroll again and see the whole pic lit up as bright as day.. there ain't a graemlin with its mouth wide open enough! It looks like, TEN TIMES as bright!

I know what I'll be doing this week with my spotlight.. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 

js

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Wilkey,

Nice work! The Aurora is even more bad-a** than before! Cool.

One thought on the GP 2000's and their low capacity. Try this, if you haven't already:

1. Set your Triton to NiCd mode, with a 60 minute peak delay and a 20 mV peak detect sensitivity. The Triton will NEVER see a 20 mV negative delta-V on a NiMH pack and thus you have now turned your Triton into a dumb slow charger. Next set the charge rate to .2 amps, and charge your pack for a full 16 hours = 3000+ mAh.

I don't know why it should be, exactly, but this break in trickle over-charging makes a difference, in my experience. If you haven't done it already, give it a try. It's worth a shot.

Oh, and yes, I have had a number of KAN packs just go bad on me (3 or 4 IIRC) , but I never saw any leakage.
 

Ginseng

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Ahh,

Thanks for the tip and for clarifying that for me, Jim. I'll try it on the next cycle.

I did subsequently find that the bulb was pulling between 9.5-10A, so that would explain some of the apparent capacity loss.

Wilkey
 

Ginseng

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I'm not sure what you're asking Scouter. Do you mean you're looking to buy a light of this type? If so, your best bet might be to hang in the Custom B/S/T and wait for a USL to come up for sale.

I am building a 12-cell Aurora2, but it won't be available for a little while.

Wilkey
 

Hallis

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[ QUOTE ]
Ginseng said:
I am building a 12-cell Aurora2, but it won't be available for a little while.


[/ QUOTE ]

As in.... a run of them? *dun dun dun* /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Shane
 

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