Flashlights suitable for security / defense

I'm working as a security guard. The area I'm in is not the greatest, and while it's mostly quiet we do get the occasional meth-head, drunk, or lowlife looking for trouble, sometimes in small groups. Post orders do not allow me to carry a weapon of any kind, but my boss has explicitly stated that maglites of any size and other such flashlights are okay (he's cool like that.) I've carried a minimag since day one and just ordered a MiniStar2 (Luxeon SE LED retrofit) for the sucker, which I have no plans on moving away from (I also carry it for computer repair; candle mode is indispensable for lighting the inside of a computer enclosure.)

I've been thinking about carrying a 6C Mag on me as well, both for its good lighting and its suitability as a baton. People know what it is, and they know what it can be used for. It can also be a good defense against edged weapons, but the psychological deterrent is key.

I started to reconsider my original plans when I stumbled onto reviews of SureFire lights yesterday, especially the Executive Defender. The idea of a small, easily-handled, and durable light that can temporarily blind an assailant in the dark without any need for physical contact is VERY appealing. I also like the idea of having an effective last-resort weapon that won't weigh me down. Of course, while the Surefires are certainly high-quality and they look damn good, the pricing gives me pause... and while they can make good handheld weapons, they're not a great visual deterrant while shut off. Still, some of their purported features give me a few ideas about how I can protect myself in a pinch with naught but a flashlight.

I'm now wondering if the 6C Mag is bright enough for a blinding effect, or if the replacement upgrade incandescent bulbs will be sufficient for that (so far I've not seen an LED retrofit that can take full advantage of 6 cells.) Can't really beat the price, and the availability of replacement components is nice, but I'm willing to pay more for something better. I also wonder if I can get something with less weight but similarly baton-like; it's better than my unwieldy 4D Mag but still pretty heavy for one-handed use. I am, of course, willing to mod.

So... any thoughts that someone in my position might find useful? I'd really like something that can be effectively used as a baton but I'll certainly consider other ideas as well.

Welcome to CPF. Hope I can shed a bit of light on your question.
I have a Elektrolumens Tri Star Phazer.It runs on 4 C cell batteries. Has 3 LEDs in the front. Nice and bright.
There is a review here http://www.flashlightreviews.com/reviews/elektrolumens_phazer.htm
I'm not sure wether it's still being produced. But they are around on the BST sales for about $120 bucks. Elektrolumens also makes a lot of meaner lights with even more output now. He's got his own website and forum here on CPF under dealer Manufacturer. This light would surely hurt someone if used as a weapon. The on/off button is at the back, which some people find hard to use. Hope this gets the ball rolling.

Hi,

It seems to me that if you can swing the price, the Gladius's strobe function is explicitly designed to do what you need- that is, dazzle and confuse. I would think that this is sort of like a parachute or a seat belt. You either don't need it at all OR.. you need it very badly and the few bucks you saved getting something inferior will not seem too important.

It does seem to me that if facing armed druggies is a real possibility, you need to have some serious discussions with your management as to getting the right tools/training/processes in place to deal with them, in which the right flashlight is only a piece of the puzzle. Hopefully those who are professional in this arena will chime in here.

6D Maglight

Hi and welcome to CPF!

If you want a baton light also capable of blinding light, I guess a Modded Mag 4C, 5C or 6C are your best options. The mods will consist of a super bulb from Welch Allyn, a Bi-pin slug from MagCharger, Borofloat lens from flashlightlens.com and an aluminium reflector from Fivemega/Modamag/Light-Edge. Rechargeable batteries also have to be used.
The bulbs for each light are as follows:
Mag 4C: WA1183
Mag 5C: WA1160
Mag 6C: WA1111, WA1274 or Pelican Big D. (WA1111 is the brightest)
All of these are incredible bright compared to the stock bulbs. If you get a potted bulb, then you don't need the MagCharger Bi-Pin slug. Fivemega or www.Light-Edge.com should be able to get you most of the bulbs.

For each of the above mods I would recommend getting CTA 5500 mAh C size rechargable NiMH batteries. A very good charger for the batteries are the AccuPower AccuManager 20. Both available from www.Thomas-Distributing.com

Sigbjoern

Thanks for the warm welcome, guys.

X33: I'm not seeing that one being sold, but it looks damn interesting. Seems that he's now sticking to D cell designs.

Sarius: The Gladius *does* look pretty sweet... not sure I'd be able to use it as a handheld weapon in a pinch, but with that kind of output I'm not so sure I'd have to. As for encounters with armed druggies, it's not very likely that I'm going to have a violent encounter on the job with an armed assailant... but it's a possibility. Whether I'm paranoid or proactive is a matter of perspective; at the end of the day I just like being prepared.

Torch: My 4D Mag is unwieldy enough. It stays in my car for emergencies (and has served me well) but I don't want to carry that monstrosity around all the time. A 6D would just be more of what I don't want. I could certainly do a lot of damage if I were to use one like a baseball bat (and I've heard stories from friends and coworkers who were jumped on the job and defended themselves in just that way, rather successfully) but that really isn't what I'm going for. I don't want to be weighed down and I want to be able to use it one-handed. More defensive value that way. So, D-cells are out for me.

Lurveleven: That sounds pretty damn interesting, but I have some questions about this.

1. I can't seem to find a MagCharger Bi-Pin slug. I take it that's just a casing for a 2-pin bulb to fit in a PR socket, correct?

2. I think I got the lens thing figured out... other lenses beside Borofloat won't withstand the heat, right? How does it handle impact and shock though?

3. Do I have to worry about any other parts of the flashlight having heat issues, like the battery farthest up, the switch, or the O-rings?

4. Using a MOP reflector sounds like it would make for a nice beam for my purposes. How much throw would I be looking at though? Since the whole area is at worst passably lit at night I don't think I need much, but I do like versatility.

5. I noticed that the WA1111 would be over-volted by 6 NiMH C cells. Will this make the bulb life any worse than that of the WA1274? (roughly less than half)

Thanks for all of the advice so far!

www.tigerlight.net is an effective and proven one handed weapon.

js mods them into 360+ Lumens. The Tiger74 with Smooth reflector would be more than enough light at 360+ Lumens.

Why not look into carrying a Pelican M6 for that blinding effect you were talking about earlier. They can be found for pretty cheap.

Then keep the 6C for the regular lighting tasks and a self defense weapon and the PM6 for when you need real light.

Believe me, it's hard for someone to see you clearly with that bright light in your eyes, and if need be you could then defend yourself with the 6C maglite while blinding the assailant with the Pelican.

CromagNet: I can't use pepper spray or anything along those lines (unfortunately.) The MAWS looks interesting though, I'm going to have to keep an eye on it.

Greg: The M6 looks interesting, but I don't want to carry two big heavy lights on me at once. I appreciate the suggestion though, it gives me ideas. I could carry an empty Mag or one modded so as to use a minimal amount of battery (with an appropriate bulb; an EverLED for instance) and carry a small, really bright Lithium-based xenon lamp for blinding. Yes... interesting possibilities there.

For affordable yet with a great deal of bite, try the Surefire 9P. It's not much bigger than the Pelican M6, but puts out 200 lumens of light. If I needed to prevent someone from seeing straight, I would prefer to have the extra power. I've tried it on myself and it is a lot worse than 65 lumens, even though I know it's coming.

Plus, you can add third party "impact bezels" to the 9P inexpensively. Think nasty teeth with a lot more bite than the E2D. Essentially the poor man's Surefire M3 with impact bezel - while the M3 is nice, it may be a LOT more than you want to spend.

As always.. I have never had to use any of my lights in such a situation and hope I never will, so take my advice for what it's worth (which may not be worth anything).

whoa... you got any linkage for a third party "impact bezel?"

That'd be awesome on the Surefire A2, among other things.

Unless you are very skilled with impact weapons , stay away from big mags . They are slow and lethal . Many PD's discourage their use , due to law suetes . It could wind up with you charged with manslaughter , and your company sued . The Tigerlight is a good choice , so is the Surefire M2 , very powerfull , and tuff . The Streamlite stinger might also be a good choice .

[ QUOTE ]
kennyj said:
Lurveleven: That sounds pretty damn interesting, but I have some questions about this.

1. I can't seem to find a MagCharger Bi-Pin slug. I take it that's just a casing for a 2-pin bulb to fit in a PR socket, correct?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, this replaces the PR socket so you can use 2-pin bulb.
You find it here. Part #108-106.
There have been some reports of melting problem with it when using the highest powered bulbs, so try to get potteded bulbs so you don't have to use it.

[ QUOTE ]
2. I think I got the lens thing figured out... other lenses beside Borofloat won't withstand the heat, right? How does it handle impact and shock though?

[/ QUOTE ]

The Borofloat is the best to withstand heat, and is scratch resistant. I'm not sure how much impact it handles.

[ QUOTE ]
3. Do I have to worry about any other parts of the flashlight having heat issues, like the battery farthest up, the switch, or the O-rings?

[/ QUOTE ]

With the bulbs I mentioned, you should be covered when replacing the lens and reflector (but the bi-pin holder has heat issues as mentioned above).

[ QUOTE ]
4. Using a MOP reflector sounds like it would make for a nice beam for my purposes. How much throw would I be looking at though? Since the whole area is at worst passably lit at night I don't think I need much, but I do like versatility.

[/ QUOTE ]

I haven't tried the MOP yet, but I find the LOP to smooth the beam pretty good without sacrificing too much throw.

[ QUOTE ]
5. I noticed that the WA1111 would be over-volted by 6 NiMH C cells. Will this make the bulb life any worse than that of the WA1274? (roughly less than half)

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, the 1274 will have a much longer life. The WA1111 may also require that the batteries are rested for half an hour before using the light to avoid instantflash. I would have bought both bulbs and the Pelican bulbs also, and tried out which I liked the most. Then if 1274 is bright enough, then you should go for that for the added reliability.

Sigbjoern

Hi Kenny,

I worked unarmed security very briefly years ago. I had a few situations that I was able to talk my way out of. I also carried a folding knife and pepper spray. I would suggest that to you, and keep them hidden. Don't try to confront or arrest anybody. I doubt you would be expected to do this without the proper equipment.

Even in my law enforcement job, I don't obey rules or policies that limit my ability to defend myself. I just keep a low profile and accept the risks of breaking the rules.

I'm not thrilled with Surefire's marketing light as a self-defense device. The light only gives you a tactical advantage in very dark environments in conjunction with your other weapons. I've lit people up with a Surefire M6 with 500 lumen lamp. It doesn't cause them to fall down or anything.

Hi Kenny, Lighthound.com has the add-on impact device its run by jcciv a very respected CPFer. He has a banner here.You will need to visit his Ebay store to find them he has a link to it on his home page.
Topper /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[ QUOTE ]
kennyj said:
...I could carry an empty Mag or one modded so as to use a minimal amount of battery (with an appropriate bulb; an EverLED for instance) and carry a small, really bright Lithium-based xenon lamp for blinding. Yes... interesting possibilities there.

[/ QUOTE ]

That was going to be my suggestion!! (You know what they say about great minds). /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Anyhow, welcome to CPF, Kenny. The device that you attach to the front of your flashlight to give it "bite" is called a TID, or Tactical Impact Device. Also, a quick and dirty improvement for a mag is simply to run the bulb from a light with less cells in the light that you are carrying. (I.e. - a 5 cell bulb in your 6 cell light). You probably knew that already, though. I've noticed that you've received a lot of good advice from others, so I'll shut up now. Good luck in your quest for the perfect light for your needs. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

if you still want soemthing in the 6C maglite, how about going for a tesla-6 made by Electrolumens? there are six 3watt LEDs (in a 6C maglite body of course) giving you 432 lumens of blinding white light. the LEDs are more durable then incan (i know cause i dropped my friends tesla-6 about 4 feet on tiled floor on the very first day he got it and it still works, PHEW!) and you get more of a constant white instead of a incan that will become more dim faster with use which is not good for the bulb like in surefire lights. you can also switch the mag head to a 2C body and power it with 3 cr123 batteries if/when you dont feel like the smashing, whacking ppl with a baton mood night. you get a more compact light (losing the baton option) but still have 432 lumens. a link to his website http://elektrolumens.com/4_SALE/For_Sale.html

Lurveleven: Thanks for that info! I guess I'd go with the SOP then in all likelyhood, though I have to admit that PhantomZ's suggestion is tempting (even in spite of the doubled pricetag) for its durability...

Lightraven: I've heard anecdotes of its effectiveness for blinding and disorientation, which I can certainly apply to the local lowlifes I may have to deal with, who are easily thrown off. It helps that the odds of an encounter happening in low-light are better than in good light. At the very least it'll make them uncomfortable or cause them to squint or look away, which makes me a harder target, at least I hope. If not... good light makes it easier to find stuff among the trees that border the property. The ambient light from the parking lamps really doesn't reach there.

I have no desire to actively confront anyone that might pose a sufficient threat to my safety. Unfortunately, there's always the possibility that a contradictory decision just might be made for me someday, and there are times that I can't just run (or would refuse to, at least, if only on ethical grounds.) The prospect of keeping a more effective concealed weapon (ideally, pepper spray) is tempting, but it's an extra risk. Defending myself with something I'm allowed to carry is a lot less likely to cost me my job, money, and/or freedom than defending myself with something I'm not supposed to bring anywhere near the jobsite. I'll keep it in mind, though.

Topper: AWESOME. I've been going over different Surefire and other small flashlights (I think I'm drooling the most over the L2; can't break the bulb, won't kill the battery on everyday use, and one of the very brightest for the size and shape I want. The U2 is tempting too, but it's bulkier than I want and not that much more useful for me.) Any idea if they fit on the differently-shaped LED heads? I found another kind made by a company called GG&G (or something similar) but it looks a bit too obvious for my purposes (and it'd probably tear my clothes to shreds, too.) I've seen mention of a "PK Crown" in a few places as well but I've had no luck digging up any info, even though it looks pretty much like what I want.

Fat_Tony: I was actually thinking of using an EverLED retrofit along with a new reflector and lens if I went that route. EverLED takes anything from 1 to 6 cells, though it seems to run best on 2 or 3. As an extra bonus, it's pretty much indestructable. Thanks for the suggestion though.

PhantomZ: That is a great idea, and I think it's probably the all-around best so far. Now I have to do more research on multi-LED retrofits but I don't think I'll see a better one. I'm leaning towards either doing that or something similar to get insane light output, or using an EverLED and coming up with a lighter battery pack. I like the idea of not being able to break or burn the bulb.

I end up with two questions though, if you're sufficiently familiar with this light: 1. How tight is the beam? 2. Is there any regulation, or is it direct-drive?

I would go with the 3 "D" lux 3 direct drive made famous by the lapd. Well they didn't have the lux III' in them. (some do now I made ;em)
Still lots of light for a long time all in a normal looking flashlight that will not attract any undue attention.
Just had a micro quake here I must do a walkaround.
Yaesumofo

I have both the SF L2 and the A2, and while the L2 is an excellent light, and very impressive, it is NOT going to throw very far, or work well in your application. I'd go for the A2 over the L2 for outdoor use where throw is important.

Anyway, it is absurd that you are not allowed to carry pepper spray but that you ARE allowed to carry what is effecitvely a lead-pipe masquerading as a flashlight (6C mag). Crazy. If I were you I would push the issue and try to get an OC TL. That's what you really need, here. Oh, well.

I'd second what Lightraven said. Despite the SF claims, the "blindingly bright" light comming out of the smaller SF's is neither that bright nor blinding. Bright light gives you a tactical advantage, perhaps, but it is NOT a self-defense tool per se.

Also, you mentioned the "deterent" factor--i.e. if people SEE that you have a lead pipe on you, they won't mess with you. If that is true (not sure myself) then it would argue for the Mag/club option.

I'd suggest this:

Get the Mag Charger and upgrade the battery pack to a 5 cell 4 Ah Aero NiMH pack, and buy some Welch Allyn 01160 lamps. 450+ lumens, 1 hour runtime, reasonable cost, very effective impact weapon, charging system included, no danger of turning on hot off the charger, and all components can be readily obtained--no waiting for a custom modder to make you something.