Why public transportation just doesn't always work

Why public transportation just doesn\'t always work

I was in NYC not too long ago, and the subway system worked great! With trains coming and going all the time, we were able to quickly get around the city any time. We didn't ever need a taxi, but if I lived in NYC I can understand how the cheap subway and the occasional expensive taxi ride would still be tons cheaper than owning a car -- especially when you factor in renting a parking space. Granted, grocery shopping is easier with a car, but just stay with me here for a minute.

I do not own a car, and I just changed jobs. It might be tricky to get somebody else in my household to give me a lift because of my new scheduling. I went ahead and checked on the public transport website to try and figure out what the bus routes would be to get me to and from work, and I was amazed!

I don't work very far from home. It's about 15 minute drive. On the bus it would take me 1 hour and 20 minutes to get there, including a 25 minute wait for a bus, and 2 hours 22 minutes to get home. That's a joke! There are some routes around here that are pretty quick, but everything else takes forever by bus. I know you can get things done on the bus, but who wants to trade a 30 minute commute for a 3.5 hour one?

Re: Why public transportation just doesn\'t always work

get a gps, then mod it to shock you when you get to the correct stop, sleep /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

get a DVD player, and when you get on make believe the seat is a recliner. get a DVD recorder at home, to keep it filled

get a pocket game machine, then wonder where all the time went too.

get a Laptop, and pick up a second job making web pages, or if you really want to waste time, making programs.

get 80 other people to take the same route, when the buss is overcrowded , go to the city meeting and convince them they need a bus for that specific route.

ask the workplace if they have a car/van pooling setup.

if i had to wait 3 hours on a buss i would rather walk for the 3 hours. its amazing how far you can get walking in only 1.

get a bike, mod it with a electric moter when you get to old to pedal.

buy a moped, scooter, electric scooter, or whatever they allow you to legally use on the streets you can use to get there.

Re: Why public transportation just doesn\'t always

I could ride mass transit to work ... but it would turn a 30-60 minute drive into at least 90 minutes and involve riding the light rail part of the way and a bus the rest of the way (plus side - I can do a bit more than just listen to the radio during my commute). It's not an option when I work 2nd shift (most of the time) - the trains stop running just a bit too early for me to make it home.

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I'll wholeheartedly admit that outside of very large cities like New York and Chicago public transportation in the US really doesn't work too well. The key is population density. The US, including most smaller cities, is very sparsely populated by European or Japanese standards. Without a high enough population density, comprehensive, frequent public transportation as exists in NYC just isn't economically feasible. The price we in America pay for our huge suburban lawns is the need to own a car. Another problem this creates is that those who get ill traveling by a car, such as myself, or otherwise simply can't afford one, have very few places in the US where they can live.

Re: Why public transportation just doesn\'t always

If you are only 15 minutes away from work then I definately think that a bike or walking could be an alternative, but if the weather is miserable then you don't have much of a choice except for public transit.

Is there any way you could find two buses in the schedule that cross only a few minutes after the first one has arrived. This way, even if you get to work early, you can sit around there rather than sitting on the bus. Plus the boss may look more highly upon you for getting there early.

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I live 5 (count 'em 5) miles from where I work. During nice weather I HAVE walked before because it's a 15-25 minute MINIMUM drive and a 65-90 minute public transit commute!

I'm involved in a minor war at the moment because I would really like to bicycle and/or walk to work but because I'm a contractor and not a Fed I cannot use the locker room and showers in our building. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

So a healthy way to get to work is right out because there is NO way I'm going to bike/walk in during Washington DC's summer weather and then make my co-workers put up with my funk the rest of the day. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sick2.gif

Re: Why public transportation just doesn\'t always

It's a shame that more places aren't able/willing to accomodate those who want to commute by bike. The bicycle is a great alternative to both cars and sparse public transit for distances of up to 10 miles each way. As a bonus, you get much needed exercise. In NYC, cycling is actually as fast as driving (for me anyway /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif), although not quite as fast as the subway. And it's way faster than bus. I figure typical average speeds in NYC as follows:

urban bus: 8 to 12 mph
urban auto (local streets): 15 to 20 mph (highways are often even slower)
bike: 15 to 20 mph
subway: 20+ mph (as high as 35 mph for express lines with limited stops)

Re: Why public transportation just doesn\'t always

When I was young, the bus system used 'mini busses' that held only 20 people or so. There were enough of them that they came by every 15 minutes. I could pick two different bus routes within 3 blocks. You could hail them (like a taxi) from anywhere, not just bus stops. They had a couple of tranfer points besides the downtown terminal,

Like light rail, they used a schedule. If they got to a stop early they'd wait. If they go there late and no one was waiting they'd keep driving. I seldom missed a bus.

The city was around 30K people, The bus routes went within 4 blocks of everywhere. I was generally able to get anywhere within an hour.

I frequently wonder why they don't use mini-busses for more city routes. It would double the number of drivers but cut the cost of busses in half and provide much better service/

Daniel

Re: Why public transportation just doesn\'t always

I have always thought that maybe only 25% of the population lived in dense enough areas for public transportation to be successful. I could be mistaken. It could only really be successful in two of the places I have lived.

Re: Why public transportation just doesn\'t always

there are so few people on our bus system MOST of the time, that they could send out a cab for each, and save 50% in cost, fuel, time, money .
They of course cut off service, when they roll up the street at night, when it would be usefull to avoid drunken driving.

but then sombody told me that the kids use it to get to regular (non college) school??

This started to make perfect sence to me of course.

they STOPPED school bus service, because everyone was being pooled to the exact same location. therefore it would be perfect to have "school buses". and anyone knows that the government will do the total oppisite of anything usefull or inteligent.

so the kids all have to be driven in these big SUVS with career moms careening through the residential streets , to get thier kids to school on time, before they singularly drive to thier job at 15 miles per gallon, in the big huge suv.
at the same time, 50% of the kids are walking , and dodging the SUVs through the same residential area.

who would have thought of doing brilliant things like that, than our government /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

and dont get me started on the bus drivers /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif 75miles an hour through the streets, taking corners like they were in the indy500 , engine smoking , black desiel plumage blasting up into the air, the engine being over revved, ramming up to every red light like thier presence there was going to turn it green magically, then braking at the back of the other patientally waiting cars 2" from smashing into thier tailpipes. only to have to stop and park the buss for 15 minutes because they are Ahead of schedule. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Re: Why public transportation just doesn\'t always

[ QUOTE ]
Greg said:
If you are only 15 minutes away from work then I definately think that a bike or walking could be an alternative, but if the weather is miserable then you don't have much of a choice except for public transit.

Is there any way you could find two buses in the schedule that cross only a few minutes after the first one has arrived. This way, even if you get to work early, you can sit around there rather than sitting on the bus. Plus the boss may look more highly upon you for getting there early.

[/ QUOTE ]

To get there by bicycle I'd have to ride on the shoulder of no less than 3 freeways.

Re: Why public transportation just doesn\'t always

[ QUOTE ]
Greg said:
Is there any way you could find two buses in the schedule that cross only a few minutes after the first one has arrived. This way, even if you get to work early, you can sit around there rather than sitting on the bus. Plus the boss may look more highly upon you for getting there early.

[/ QUOTE ]

65 minutes is minimum commute using the light rail for one leg of the trip. It's over 2 hours by bus, and I have to make 2 transfers. I only have to travel 20 miles... the price of urbam sprawl.

DFW is horrible for sprawl. There are maybe 5 million people in the metro area and the last statisticI saw put the area at ~20,000 square miles.

Re: Why public transportation just doesn\'t always

Been to Texas many times but not Dallas. I never picured Dallas having light rail.

I could not imagine 65 minutes just to get 20 miles. Definately not worth it.

Re: Why public transportation just doesn\'t always

Dallas's light rail system is called the dart system. I used it to go from the amtrak station to the mark adams hotel on pearle street for a conference.

I use patransit service in th city of richmond the past 5 years. It is a direct route thing, but they also pick up or drop off other passengers. THey are allowed to drive you around for 90 minutes, 91 minutes is too long. ANyway I am almost always on time, however the van either arrives late and takes me directly to my drop or arrives early, picks up others then drops me off on time. YOu have to arrange the trips in advance and an hour between stops. So, going to mc donalds before work will eat an hour or more out of a day. Working two part time jobs or going to class adn working, I spend up to 3 hours a day on or waiting for transportation.

Man I wish I could drive.

Re: Why public transportation just doesn\'t always

Americans are not good at public transportation. We do it poorly and grudgingly, and it sort of works a little. We have a handful of cities like NY and Minn. where they do have real public transportation. You really have to go abroad to see good dependable efficient public transport. It can be done, it's just that we don't do it.

Re: Why public transportation just doesn\'t always

Actually, we did it very well here too.

Public transportation was purposely destroyed and the right-of-ways sold to make sure that they would never be reserected in the middle of the Great Depression:

Choosing Congestion: The Destruction of L.A.'s Trolley System

[ QUOTE ]
Believe it or not, "for the first half of this century, smooth, clean, and comfortable streetcars ruled America's Cities." In Los Angeles, these streetcars or "trolleys" were run by The Pacific Electric Company and called "Red Cars." This fast and cheap mode of transportation traveled the streets of L.A. on tracks or overhead wires, which provided their electricty. Since they were not fueled by gasoline, they did not emit the pollution that our cars and buses do today. The world-famous Red Cars were quiet and easy to take from one destination to another, and cheap enough to be available for anyone to use.

Then in 1936, General Motors joined forces with Firestone Tire and Rubber, Standard Oil, Phillips Petroleum and Mack Truck to form a corporation called National City Lines. The purpose of NCL was to use its immense pool of wealth to buy up trolley tracks and systems in cities across the US, dismantle them, and replace them with diesel bus lines. The American Heritage "History of Railroads in America" notes that at this point in history "Los Angeles' quiet, pollution-free, electric train system was totally destroyed." These General Motors buses were conveniently fueled by Standard Oil and driven on Firestone Tires. Since it is illegal in America to monopolize a market, National City Lines was brought to court in 1949. They were found guilty of criminally conspiring to control the market sales of buses and related products to local transportation companies throughout the country. The Government fined them a mere $5000 for their trust violation, and broke the company apart.

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Grrrrr....

-Bill

Re: Why public transportation just doesn\'t always

Basically, courtesy of GM and Firestone we replaced a perfectly good system of trolleys and interurbans with something that is a lot slower, a lot more polluting, and a lot more unpleasant to ride in. I'll take a train or trolley any day of the week over a car or bus. It's just a much more civilized way to travel. Of course, GM did this on purpose. If public transportation had remained clean, fast, frequent, and ubiquitous nobody except those in very rural areas would have wanted or needed to own cars. I get ill every time I envision what could have been had the auto not taken over.

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Come to San Francisco. You can't walk 4 blocks without hitting a bus line.

Re: Why public transportation just doesn\'t always

Unless one or the other agency is going on strike... It's BART's (Bay Area rail/subway system) turn next somewhere about next Friday.

They do seem to make pretty good pay there.

BART Wages...

[ QUOTE ]
Last year, pay records show, 10 percent of BART's 3,200 employees made more than $100,000 when you add in overtime, differential pay and bonuses.

A third of those $100,000 club members were union workers: police, engineers, drivers and the like. Of course, that means the other two-thirds weren't union members, but managers and other exempt employees -- who have been benefiting just as much from the increases that workers have won over the years.
...
-- Station agents, with a base salary of $61,012 a year, are at the top of the pile among the nation's transit systems.

-- Train operators, who make $59,776 a year, are tops as well.

-- And utility workers are fifth in the country, with a base pay of $49,775.
...
BART General Manager Tom Margro, for example, has a base pay of $283,000 -- but add in his "management incentives," and it climbs to $309,000 a year.

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Probably why city transit systems eventually seem to price themselves out of the market. Not bad considering that Silicon Valley lost some 250,000 jobs in the 2000/1 dot com crash.

-Bill

Re: Why public transportation just doesn\'t always

The bus system here works fairly well if you need to go within the confines of one bus route as during peak hours they run at least once an hour. The problems come if you have to transfer to a second bus because you either have to walk to a new stop or wait perhaps as much as 50 mins for the next bus to come by. I have road the bus when I was a kid to school and my dad worked downtown and road the bus everyday. I wouldn't want to waste over about 20 mins a day waiting for a bus unless parking and traffic were bad where I was heading to all the time. It is nice when it is bad to be on a nice air conditioned bus doing something else but driving and fuming about lousy drivers.