US/Osamma/Iraq/terrorism

Ok.. I have many questions..

First.. after September 11, 2001 and the attacks on mainland America, the US called for an all-out war on terrorism and the hunt for Osamma. This somehow led to the investigation of Iraq and WOMD(which, by the way, don't exist). Now, almost 4 years later, Osamma is almost forgotten and the USA is spending HUGE amounts of money on a foreign country to try to correct it's mistakes while American soldiers are being killed daily.

WHAT THE HECK! Go for Osama and the terrorists not Iraqis defending themselves.( in their extremist ways )

ITS A WASTE!

-tom

The same question is on a lot of people's minds I would imagine.

PM sent.

As a right-Libertarian, neither truly Republican or Democrat, I am certainly suspicious of quite a bit of what Bush and the neo-cons are trying to sell us. However, the Bush-bashers, the liberals, and Democrats (not allways the same as liberals), they some across like a pack of shrill conspiracy kooks, and those who are just really deep down outraged that America chose Bush a second time, and with a real majority this time to boot.

So essentialy, I'm kind of an agnostic on the Iraq "war". (IMO the "war" was over in a week, what we have now is a low-grade insurgency.) From a pragmatic standpoint I think we ought to finish it, and stay the course until the insurgency burns itself out, and Iraq is relatively democratic and stable, then take whatever benifit from that we can.

So I'm going to point out a few things as devil's advocate and as someone who dosen't truly support the "war". As a Libertarian, I kind of wish the U.S. was a very well-armed Switzerland that wouldn't put up with trade imbalance from countries like China, but I digress...

- If the Iraq WMD's didn't exist, why did the U.N., the previous Clinton administration, the U.K. and a host of other countries believe they had them as well?

- If the Iraq WMD's didn't exist, why didn't Saddam Hussein allow the U.N. inspectors full access? Was the constant obstruction, cargo trucks leaving as inspectors arrived, and their final ejection from Iraq just a game for his ego? He and his sons would stil be in charge of Iraq, fat happy and rich if they had just allowed the Kumbyah hand-wringers at the U.N. some access so Iraq could be left alone?

- If the insurgency is the "Iraqi's defending themselves" how come so many of them are not Iraqi's? How come 2/3'rds of the country is happy to have the U.S. and Britian there? And even in the dangerous 1/3rd over half the people feel that they're better off with Saddam gone?

And before you say the insurgents are fellow Mid-Easterners come to "help", remember that before in the 80's, and during Iraq war #1, Iraq bullied and stomped most all of their neighbors.

Again, I'm saying this as someone who'd rather all this crap over there not be going on, but at the same time, I can't ignore that those opposing the "war" don't have good responses for these questions. I usually just get more volume in response.

Again, I'm just playing devi's advocate, and I suspect as usual the "truth is somewhere in between". Bush and the Neo-Conservatives can correctly claim they've never tried to link Iraq and 9/11, but OTOH, they've certainly done nothing to stop anyone from getting that impression either. However, that's also a long way from those who would accuse them of making the connection either.

There certainly are some hard questions the Administration needs to answer, but when you take the protestors desparate for a cause to re-live Viet Nam and the 60's over again, and the minority party shrill screaming as they pander to keep their base energized for the next election cycle, the list of those "hard questions" is somewhat smaller.

Saddam is the one who killed literally hundreds of thousands of his own people; who had and used WMDs (gased the Kurds); who invaded his neighbors and tried to control half of the world's oil; who ignored 17 UN resolutions (lame though they were) threatening "serious consequences" for failing to cease; and, who plotted to kill an American President and harbored those who would destroy the civilized world if they could. These reasons alone are a sufficient basis for America and other freedom-loving peoples to use force to remove him.

But the best reason is that the civilized world finally poked its finger directly into the eye of a 13th century radical Islamic world which had known America to be only cowards (running from Somalia, for example, which OBL himself stated told him everything he need to know about America).

The result is that Iraq is now free of its murderous, dictatorial regime and for the first time in its history has had free elections (with a higher turnout than the last American presidential election). The result is that Syria has withdrawn from Lebanon, that Saudi Arabia is speaking the unspeakable (elections), and that Libya has abandoned its nuclear program. These things didn't happen by accident.

The biggest enemy of tyranny is freedom. Thats why free people spread freedom. Others sit on the sidelines and reap the benefits.

As for Osama, he has been relegated from one who once brought about the deaths of thousands of free people of all nationalities and beliefs (World Trade Center) to an inert, cowardly cockroach hiding in a cave. His fate is to die in that cave if he does not first see the inside of an American military prison. Either way, because of America and her allies he now little more than a pimple on the @ss of humanity.

Freedom: 2
Tyranny: 0

Thats why we are there.

AJ, I'm finding your posts in these threads to be a breath of fresh air and you're views very well expressed. It helps I suppose that I seem to be on the same side of this fence as you are /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

powernoodle, you too, nice writing.

we didn't do anything that we could have not done to earn their ire. Now they can say that the invasion of iraq or Afghanistan is the reason for this attack. But the reasons are being added on as they are convenient. These folks were trained and put in place before 9/11. None of this has any bearing on the war at all.

What did we do prior to 9/11 to earn their hatred of us? We weren't invading them then. Indeed we were both buying bazillions of dollars worth of their oil and indeed even giving more money to their failing despot governments to prop them up so that we could give them yet more money for their oil.

No, whatever is happening right now is just the latest in a series of excuses to try to kill people that they are training themselves to hate.

Talk about biting the hand that feeds you. Remember the story of the scorpion and the frog?

Argue about the varieties of the war in Iraq or the wisdom of one move over another all you like. You'll find me in there with lots of my own criticism. But don't try to blame this stuff on it. This would have happened anyway, and indeed would most likely be worse as it would have continued to receive funding from Saddam and be allowed to train in the safe haven for terrorists that was Iraq and Afghanistan.

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Cornkid said:
American soldiers are being killed daily

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Interestingly enough though, by a vast majority, our troops support our president and his decisions. Most of them, who are the people actually paying the price for the war, think it is worth it, and we are doing the right thing.

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Iraqis defending themselves. ( in their extremist ways )

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Do you think it is the citizens of Iraq, that voted in the free election, who are trying to kill American troops? Do you think they represent the majority of the Iraqis? No - they are the ones who are terrorists and extremists, who don't want a democratic Iraq. They have especially demonstrated that by going after diplomats.

Your subject is trash first off. It should be "US, Osamma, Iraq, Terrorism". With the slashes, you are making it look or sound like the US and Terrorist are all the same...which we're not. We are in Iraq, fighting terrorist. Terrorist, who otherwise, would be attempting to get here, to the US, and causing more attacks. I dont see why you believe we have just stopped looking for Osama. We havent. Not at all. They seem to believe to know where he is, but getting him would cause conflict with other countries. Personally, I dont care. I think we should do whatever it takes to get him. Iraq was not a mistake...and I am not going to waste my time to explain why right now, cause I know you wont care. If you want to know why anyhow, let me know. Nothing was a waste.

Cameron

Hi Cameron, I too would vote "go get him" if I knew where he was. I do not think Tom meant anything with the slashes instead of commas. I like both you guys and will continue to do so.
Topper /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Absolutely a breath of fresh air. I for one also hate that the situation exists and is ongoing, however all too often it seems that we read posts or hear from those who would do nothing but criticize whichever administration is in office or the actions (no matter what they are)...

It's nice to be "reminded" why we are there and what we are doing it for!

"Let Freedom Ring LOUDLY!!!"

Cameron:

Take it easy on Brother Cornkid. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif He's 16, and I appreciate his interest in an important subject. When I was 16 I could barely tie my own shoelaces, so he's way ahead of the curve IMO. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif

best regards

The US should stay only for 2more yrs then leave Iraq to its people. Let them have the chance to deal with the insurgents according to their own way. US should wash its hands of Irag regardless of the outcome. Then we will have more resources to deal with the real terror threat in Afghanistan, Osama. The US has been double dealing with Pakistan for too long. Its time for us to tell them to shut down those religious school or face punitive economic sanctions.

Any "Timetable" sends a very wrong message!

I personally thought more carpet bombing (after giving the people time to come out without any bad stuff).

As long as we keep 'em busy over there, there are less of them to swarm us!

Thanks to all!

My appologies for sounding harsh. Its just when I first read the thread subject, it made me think...

As for saying a date or time table to leave, you just cant do that. The terrorist (as thats what I believe they are in Iraq, not insurgents), would then just hold off till that date then take back over or whatever it is that they want to do. We need to wait till their(Iraqs) military is truly ready to take it on, and have pride in what they protect...they are getting there. Then allow them to shut down borders in which these terrorist are coming in from.

Cameron

I'm going ot try to keep this short, if anyone really wants more, PM me and I'll send you more info.

Radical Islam has ONE purpose, the total annihilation of western civilization. They don't want us out of their countries, they want us wiped off the face of the earth!

I'm not talking about MOST of those who follow Islam, but about those who carry Jihad to the world. That said, only ONE response is indicated: Hunt them down until there is no place left to hide!

It will take years, it may not happen in a decade, but until there is no place left to hide, they will return just like the cockroaches they are.

Small Islamic countries have neither the will nor the resources to fight against the Jihadists, they simply allow them to build schools to keep them from assassintating themselves.

There is only one response, the response we have given and MUST continue to give, or we WILL eventually fall.

Those young men who serve, serve willingly and because THEY recognize the importance of freedom, and THEY recognize that everywhere there is freedom, the Jihadists have no home. If every Iraqi home were truly free, there would be no insurgency.

Finally, remember these brave words:

For evil to triumph requires nothing more than for good men to stand by and do nothing!

September 11, 2001 deaths, Approx. 3000
Iraqi War and peacekeeping deaths Approx. 1745

Bill

The US is having an image problem in many parts of the world. It is difficult to pursue those terrorists. I believe that the US should give Asian countries such as Thailand, S. Korea , Japan, and chinese greater role in hunting down the terrorists. They have no legal restraints like the US. At this moment, the US efforts in Iraq is hindered a great deal by politics which prevent its special forces from interrogating terroists. Why don't the US let Asian special forces hunt them and interrogate the terrorists. What do you think guys??

1st.. thank you very much for defending me.. but i am 17.

Ok, I take no offence to any comment, although I agree with most of you.

Ok.. lets get this right.. Islam is not a bad religion. The extremists take Islamic ideals and bend them to accomplish their goals.. These are the people that need to "feel the wrath of the USA."

My father is in the US Army and I do not have ANY problem, whatsoever with the Armed Forces..

-tom

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Cornkid said:
Ok, I take no offence to any comment, although I agree with most of you.

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You agree with most of us? Your first post seems to contradict basically all of the replies. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

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Cornkid said:
Ok.. lets get this right.. Islam is not a bad religion. The extremists take Islamic ideals and bend them to accomplish their goals.. These are the people that need to "feel the wrath of the USA."

[/ QUOTE ]

Whoever said that Islam is a bad religion? I believe everybody was only talking about the extremists and terrorists.

i decidd to wait a few days before responding if i repsond then.still have to much nager over todays events.and sadness.

Take this political ranting to the Underground. That is what it is there for. No need to pollute CPF itself with it. We don't need any more bad feelings brewing up here.

I'm not sure there is any ranting here, just concern for the problems associated with terrorism and how to combat it.

Some of the members here talking aren't even old enough for the underground, are they?

This is the off topic spot, right, strong opinions are SOMETIMES warranted, aren't they?

Bill