KL1 - Gen 2 or Gen 3?

Hi all,

I have a KL-1 Gen 1 I bought a while back and have it on an e1 which I like for the flood.

I bought another KL1 about a year ago for my e2 which is great for throw.
I have been reading that some have the Gen 3 KL1.
Now I wonder if my relatively new KL1 is a Gen 2 or Gen 3...
Could someone please let me know how I can tell which one I have Gen2 or Gen 3??

Thanks...

A Gen3 has a high dome and a very distinctive beam pattern. Shine yours at the wall and if you see a square, with a circle in the center of the square, that's a Gen3. Tint should be good with no unevenness and green perimeter.

Thanks Kevin,

It has a high dome but looks more like a fuzzy square within the square. If I shine it on a more distant wall the inside fuzzy square looks a little more like a circle but I can still somewhat see a square...
What do you think from what I described?

Thanks again for your help

Yep, generation 3 it is. I have one myself. Does it have FC on the bezel?

-David

Does it look similar to this:



The beam on the right is a 3rd gen. The one on the left is a 4th gen.

If you have a 2nd gen, the beam will look like the right one with a fuzzier perimeter, and the center will look like a well formed circle instead of a diamond/square.

Thanks guys,

Cheapo,
It has an FC with the "C" also having an inner "c". Directly above the "FC" there is also a "CE" (E is rounded).

KevinL,
Oh boy, now there is a 4th Gen(??).
My beam looks MUCH more like your right one, but my outside border still shows a square with a VERY light circle just past the corners of the square.

Thanks for your patience...
[I have a new Dig SLR - I will need to learn how to do beam shots and how to post them; I think its probably not so easy to get detail in beam shots]

Well, I found that beamshot to be misleading, I bought a 3rd generation kl1 and it doesnt throw nearly as close to the new kl1 as the picture shows.

-David

cheapo.. after reading a few of your recent posts I accept that you are the resident expert on the Surefire L1/KL1. Why don't you take a few accurate beamshots to properly illustrate the capabilities of this light? I am but a poor ignoramus with just a few lights and the inability to control a camera properly. I would also be interested in your demonstration that the L1 has a regulated low.



But let's get back on topic.

luxman, there is a 4th gen with a more focused, tighter beam. I shot that with a point and shoot with auto exposure since it's just a comparative shot between two lights. The hotspots may appear both equally bright unless you adjust exposure compensation. I didn't because that was not the point of the shot. Cameras will still have a long way to go before they can mimic the dynamic range of the human eye, which is a truly awesome instrument. That photo was taken to illustrate the difference between a beam pattern though, not the throw or other perceived characteristics of the light.

I'm a proud new owner of a digital SLR as well.. which one did you get? Congratulations man, you're on a long and rewarding journey of learning. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif and sometimes the key to learning is to know that we do not know.. there is so much that I have not yet discovered too.

Thanks Kevin,

WOW! 4 generations of KL1s. 4th Gen looks like it has much more throw - True??
If so, I'd like to get one for my KL1 e2; then I'll put my Gen3(?) on a spare e1 I have (has incandescent, so counts as spare). I really like my current KL1's throw and looks like yours would blow it away!

Just got my Canon 20D about 5 weeks ago. Read a couple of books on it and have taken some nature pics. The lenses really hurt the budget! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/broke.gif Later, I also plan on taking some astronomical pictures. I bought the camera adaptor and tried the camera on the telescope focuser as "prime focus". Worked great on some birds.

Took my first beam shots this evening - and your sure right on the dynamic range - it did not show the decreasing beam intensity of the Peak AAA properly. I did try about a dozen different exposure settings and its just not the same as live. But its a fun and brand new hobby for me - and half of the fun is learning as you also implied...
Just finished posting thoses beamshots on the ARC AAA vs Peak 1LED AAA vs N cell - I think it took me an hour just to figure out how downsize the jpg (havn't needed to do that before) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Please let me know your thoughts on how I could improve them...

The Gen4 Kl1 has much more throw but almost no sidespill. Some people prefer one, some the other. I used to think it was all about throw but I have owned all versions of the Kl1 and I really prefer the Gen3 with it's combination of good hotspot and sidespill for usefulness.

Yup, definitely more throw. However, we can fix the lack of sidespill by attaching the F04 beamshaper/diffuser, that creates a very soft even beam.

20D.. NICE! I got my 350D (Rebel XT) around the same time. Invested in some affordable (read: cheap) lenses. I'll build up the quality glass over time but so far it's already done a great job on basic glass.

For "comparative" beamshots I use P/Program AE mode, put two lights side by side and snap. This illustrates the difference between two different lights, however only the lights in those photos can be compared. The above shot was taken that way.

For "comparable" beamshots (different lights in different photos), you must keep the parameters the same - M/Manual mode, remember the shutter speed/aperture/ISO, keep it consistent. Same with the test setup, lights must be same distance from the target.

As mentioned above I think I can illustrate the hotter spot of the 4th generation by using exposure compensation and setting it to -1 or -2.


Remember what I mentioned about the diffuser? You will also find the F04 is a huge asset in illuminating close up subjects for macro/pseudo-macro work. "White" of these LEDs shows up as TRUE white to the camera's automatic white balance system, making them excellent illumination tools. I use a Surefire L4 with the F04 for the most even flood I've ever seen and then fill with the onboard flash.

Your KL1 will get a lot of use, I am sure.. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[ QUOTE ]
KevinL said:
cheapo.. after reading a few of your recent posts I accept that you are the resident expert on the Surefire L1/KL1. Why don't you take a few accurate beamshots to properly illustrate the capabilities of this light? I am but a poor ignoramus with just a few lights and the inability to control a camera properly. I would also be interested in your demonstration that the L1 has a regulated low.



But let's get back on topic.

luxman, there is a 4th gen with a more focused, tighter beam. I shot that with a point and shoot with auto exposure since it's just a comparative shot between two lights. The hotspots may appear both equally bright unless you adjust exposure compensation. I didn't because that was not the point of the shot. Cameras will still have a long way to go before they can mimic the dynamic range of the human eye, which is a truly awesome instrument. That photo was taken to illustrate the difference between a beam pattern though, not the throw or other perceived characteristics of the light.

I'm a proud new owner of a digital SLR as well.. which one did you get? Congratulations man, you're on a long and rewarding journey of learning. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif and sometimes the key to learning is to know that we do not know.. there is so much that I have not yet discovered too.

[/ QUOTE ]

sorry, I didnt think you'de take it so hard. And, of course, you were right about the l1 low. I was thinking that if the low isnt regulated, then why not just put a 2 stage tailcap on E1L? it would be smaller, why the extended body. I learn a new thing every day. I should look into something before I comment on it, my fault. My apoligies to you. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif

-David

[ QUOTE ]
cheapo said:
sorry, I didnt think you'de take it so hard. And, of course, you were right about the l1 low. I was thinking that if the low isnt regulated, then why not just put a 2 stage tailcap on E1L? it would be smaller, why the extended body. I learn a new thing every day. I should look into something before I comment on it, my fault. My apoligies to you. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif

-David

[/ QUOTE ]

Apologies accepted. Perhaps I shouldn't have reacted so quickly as well, sometimes different folks see different things in a given communication. I'll try to rein it in too /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

The L1 is widely known to have a 'dumb' head with no electronics, SF moved the circuit board to the body hence the extra length. The KL1 has the circuit board in the head. I also noticed that for 4th-gen lights, the L1's head is shorter than the KL1, which would explain that.

I have the 2nd Gen KL1, it's basically a Luxeon low dome + NX-05 + scallop bezel. I've been considering the 4th Gen KL1 with the TIR optic. I love throwing lights, how well does the TIR optic throw compared to a Mag 2C reflector? I'm sorry if this has been discussed before.

-vince.

I didnt know that the l1 head was smaller... weird.

-David

14C,
Yes I agree on many, even most, times needing spill. I love LEDs and my e2 w/ the KL1 (G3?) turned out to throw so good it is my carry LED throw light! I will probably look into an Aleph as I learn more from CPF. I also have the QIII and 301X and Ultimate 60 for combination throw/spill lights. Also have C2 w/ M2 head and M3 but do not use them much because I just like the reliability of LEDs (just me).

Cheapo,
Does the "FC" + "CE" mean I have the Gen 3?

KevinL,
Your Rebel XT is a known Great camera. I think the XT and 20D have the same resolution, new Dig uP and CMOS sensor. Excellent for high resolution low noise night shots which was one of my main criteria (astronomical pics). Also, if I remember correctly, the 20D will go to 3200 ISO which I hope will help with astronomy pics. I used the EFS 17-85mm lens for the beam shots on full manual mode - I think 1/5 s at f6.3, ISO 400. I did keep the same settings for the comparison...but I think that sacrificed showing more detail in the Peak N cell vs Peak AAA. Also, I believe, if I had more exposure it would have improved the spill detail but the center spot would appear unrealistically bright and would not generally look like "live".

Seems like a great idea on the diffuser for macro(thanks) - the Canon macro light is beyond my budget...no funds left since I did get a couple of "L" lenses.
Do you always use Auto WB when lighting w/ LED?
Have you tried any manual WB settings??

I also thought(after last night) that it might be interesting to shoot similar beamshots but cover the central spots w/ black non reflective fabric or paper to allow an increase in exposure and this might show the spill more accurately without overexposing the center(?).

Which do you think is the best 2 level tail cap to get for my e2 KL1? My wife's L2 cap will not fit.

Kevin and Koala,
Oh...I think I have made an error in saying I have a high dome. I can't really see what the LED looks like and I was referring to the high dome lens of the KL1 - is that what you meant?

Thanks...

Luxman - The 4th Gen KL1 has both the high dome Luxeon and high dome optic(TIR) but your the first one to call it high dome lens I think you just coined a term here /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif.

If you have a 'high dome, curving lens' then it's the TIR optic which should look like the one on the left of KevinL's image.

Errr.. they are not quite the same resolution, RebelXT(3456 x 2304) vs 20D(3504 x 2336), close but not same. The RebelXT has a smaller sensor but picture quality is close to 20D.

So no one seen, how well does the TIR optic throw compared to a Mag 2C reflector?

-vince.

Yup, the two cameras are very close cousins. Off topic, but I gotta ask you, how do you like the EF-S 17-85 IS USM? That is the lens I've always wanted to own and I will, in the months and years to come /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif hoping that the IS will make a difference for all those spur of the moment shots where the lighting is less than ideal and I don't have my tripod on me.

So far, I haven't needed to use manual WB, because I'm pleased with the results. I shoot and it comes out ok. This may be because I have very white LEDs, if your LEDs have ugly tints like puke green (rarer these days) you may have to work on some color correction. You will know puke green when you see it, many a second-generation KL1 had them. I performed a little bit of surgery to replace mine with a better emitter.

Shot using my L4 LumaMax with F04 optical beamshaper:


You can see where the L4 was aimed, because it is more powerful than the flash at short range and still cast a shadow. I later moved the L4 to a position beside the camera. Auto WB. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


High/low dome refers to the LED emitter itself. You can follow my adventures chopping up my 2nd-generation here. All shot with the Rebel XT too, when I was first learning the ropes.

The second last picture shows the LED emitter with a rounded transparent capsule on top. That is the high dome (HD) we are referring to. If that capsule is smooth and flat, that's a LD. You generally won't see this unless you are a modder working with bare emitters.

[ QUOTE ]
Luxman said:

Cheapo,
Does the "FC" + "CE" mean I have the Gen 3?

Thanks...

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I've been looking, and I noticed that only generation 3 and 4 have both FC and CE, correct me if I am wrong.

-David /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

This is what I have:

KL1 flat lens (gen4) CE
KL1 high dome (gen3) FC CE
KL4 flat lens FC CE
KL4-BK flat lens FC CE

Jim