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gadget_lover said:
The specter of Windows on ATMs is due to the fact that several cases have been reported where the ATMs were tied to the bank's IP network, and a virus got through to the internal machines.
I'm pretty sure it was BofA that lost it's ATMs two years ago when one of the viruses crashed them along with other internal infected systems.
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That's not the case. The worms of a few years ago that ran rampant on ATM networks were traced to infected technicians' laptops. Since ATMs don't need firewalls (closed network), the worms spread rapidly. The infection did not spread from the ATM network into other internal networks because of firewalls at the network perimiter - likely based on the all that is not explicitly permitted is denied philosophy (easy enough to impliment for a single, uniform purpose like an ATM).
These same firewalls will quite reliably prohibit nonroutine, unauthorized communication from the secured inner network (itself likely protected by draconian firewall rules from the LAN that workstations are on).
Banks take network security very seriously and spend the money/deploy the equipment to keep it secure. My father used to work for a bank and saw some of this closeup. Banks segment the hell out of their network and are always looking for intrusions on their secure networks ... and probably have honeypots all over the place as well (ex: user-mode linux will let you set up what appears to be an entire server farm on a single box with startlingly modest specs).
Here's another curveball : BofA uses SPX/IPX as their layer 3 protocol. Sure, it's not as standardized or scalable as IP (but scales better than you might think - several routing protocols support it), but it's obscure and nearly unhackable.
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If the machine does not crash, it can be used just like all the other hijacked computers on the net. If a hacker ever realized that they were on an ATM, it would be time to look at the binary to see what havock could be created. I can see a variation of key loggong, sending ATM card numbers and pins back to someone who will sell teh info.
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Keep in mind that you're dealing with very specialized hardware running a stripped-down OS. You're going to have to figure out how to compromise a nonstandard machine, keylog on unfamiliar hardware, and convince several hardnosed firewalls to pass some rather unusual data (or compromise who knows how many "middle man" machines to slip under the firewalls) ... nevermind that such a rigidly standardized platform can just generate memory hashes at random and shutdown just as soon as something doesn't smell right on a CRC check - or it spots "zombieATM.exe" in the process list.
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You can not assume the keypad interface is dead just because you see the desktop. Windows programs break in too many innovative ways.
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I've seen a number of crashed "kiosks," from ATMs to gift registry kiosks to self-checkout machines. Only the self-checkout machine was of poor enough design to use the touchscreen as a mouse ... that failed to interact with the NT 4.0 desktop. For all I know, it wasn't even manipulating the "actual" mouse pointer.
Now ... is it possible to somehow compromise ATMs despite the thorough security?
Yes.
Is it worth the effort when you can lift several thousand credit cards #s, expiration dates, shipping addresses, security IDs, and names from some poorly-secured ecommerce server ... without leaving so many "fingerprints"?
Probably not.
There are some plausible social-engineering scenarios that can bypass some of the security processes I've mentioned, but they seem just as dicey as running the firewall / ATM self-disganostic gauntlet...
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I'm much more worried when I see Windows in a combat situation, such as a naval vessel. Yuck!
Daniel
(OS/2 and sendmail? Really?)
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There was an article in The Register joking about "Windows for Warships" a few years back ... but I hear the Navy has a specialized "distro" (snicker) of Windows NT running the sub fleet.
Yes on the OS/2. Financial institutions were the only place that OS/2 really took off and continues to have staying power.