quick, dumb pc case fan question

geepondy

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Have you ever reversed your PC tower case fan? Not the one that's attached to the power supply but one (or more) that many cases have in the front. I am servicing a pc that I serviced just a few months ago and notice how dusty it is. I notice it is sucking air in from the front, rather then blowing it out and I'm sure that is why it is getting so dusty, so quick. I'm wondering if I attempt to reverse it (if it can even be done) so the air blows out similar to the power supply fan, it will disrupt the airflow. I'm tempted to disconnect it altogether but this is a solid metal case with no ventilation holes at all on the side.
 

Lynx_Arc

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Airflow in PC cases is somewhat designed to be *pressurized* to a certain degree. Usually there is at least one fan in the rear of the power supply pulling air out and better cases have room for and sometimes install a second fan below the power supply in the area where the CPU resides to pull even more air out. The fan in the front of the case is for pulling air in and if you reversed it you would either have to have a way for air to get in properly across components such as CPU,GPU,memory and even lower hard drive cages or you will literally starve them for cooling.

The front fan and rear power supply fans always get dusty it is a fact of life unless you have superior air cleaning systems in the building/room and don't allow a lot of foot traffic in/out with carpets and outside debris you are tracking in stuff regardless. They do make filters for fans or you can use some sort of filtering material similar to what they use on central AC units. I have seen cases with filters built in that are removable/cleanable. If you remove the fan it may reduce dust/dirt as the airflow may decrease in the case accordingly but I have cleaned fans in power supplies of computers with absolutely no front fans that were abhorrently filthy so there is really no easy way to prevent dust completely.
 

Geologist

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Just clean your PC once in awhile. Better to have air flow a dusty components than no airflow and clean components. The dust is a sign that air (albeit a bit dusty sometimes) is flowing through the PC.
 

John N

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Yes, dust is part of life for a PC and periotic maint. is the best answer. Every six take your PC outside and dust it out with canned air (or an air compressor works even better) or four times a year for dusty locations.

You can reduce dust somewhat by not having the case on the floor.

A filter is a good thing to have, and you can improvise a filter from those 3M Scotchbrite pads (the green scrubbies).

Better cases have removable filters and that is a desirable feature. To clean a filter, remove it carefully (as to not spread dust everywhere), bring it out side and shake it. Then, rinse it out in the sink. Dab dry with a towel and replace.

With a filter, you can reduce the number of times you need to do a full dust removal, and simply clean the filter every four to six months and then do a full dust removal, say, once a year.

-john
 

chimo

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The dust is "normal" (although not welcomed). One thing you don't want to do is starve your CPU/GPU fans of air. Regular maintenance is the key - compressed air or a vaccuum.

The heatsinks do occasionally develop into some very interesting "dust sculptures". /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 

KevinL

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My favorite, time-honored method of removing dust over the last 7 years - soft paintbrush, and vacuum cleaner. Dust gently with the brush and hold the vac nozzle near it to suck the dust in. Won't irritate your nose either because the dust gets sucked in before it can get into the air. Won't damage computer components either.

Still have my original $2 brush after all these years, I realized. Now too lazy to use it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 

DarkLight

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I have 7 case fans on mine and it gets cleaned about every three months...

You want a path of air moving through your case....you dont want too much neg pressure or you will turn your cdrom drive into an air filter and I dont think you want that..
 

BentHeadTX

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You don't want all the fans blowing out if there are fans in the front and back. This will disrupt flow and cause dead spots increasing operating temperatures in certain areas of the computer. With one blowing in and one (plus power supply fan) blowing out, there is a general flow pattern.

There are many ways to keep your computer cleaner, some good and others will cause heat problems. The first thing that has to be done is figure out how much air flow is flowing through the computer.
Are the case fans 60mm, 80mm, 92mm or 120mm in size? Are the grills very restricted? (little holes for the fan to suck air through our large cutouts for free flow) The small holes will destroy your air flow as 12 volt DC fans can't handle the pressure on the blades. If the restrictive holes are cut out and you add a wire fan grill, it will increase the air flow tremendously!

Why would you want to increase airflow--won't that increase the amount of dust flowing into the computer? It sure does! The point of increasing air flow is due to a filter cutting the amount of airflow in half. A filter that is cheap and won't cut much airflow from the fan is nylon panty hose. It will catch the dust bunnies, pet hair and carpet fibers and prevent them from clogging the heat sinks.

One way to evaluate how well your airflow is going up (unrestricted fans) and see if the filters are killing airflow is to check the temperatures. There is a program called Speed Fan out there that reports the CPU on-die temperatures (AMD Athlon64 and Intel P4) tells you what the motherboard temperature is and (if your hard drives are recent) tells the hard drive temperatures.

I have these programs running and know when it is time to clean my small desktop hometheater PC. With the computer dirty, make a file and record the temperatures. Clean the computer and record the temps clean (they will be lower)

If your fan grills are restrictive, cut them out (or have a person that knows how to take computers apart cut out the grills---metal shavings and electricity don't mix) Take the temps again and see the difference...take the fans out and put a piece of panty hose over the fan (put the fan inside the panty hose so both layers will catch dirt) Install the fans and see how much the temperatures change, it should be slight.

If you want better filtration and still keep the computer cool, it can be done but takes more effort and some additional costs. This is how to do it.

Say your computer has 80mm case fans and there is space on either side of the fan for a larger 92mm or 120mm fan. Cut out the case for the larger hole (a CD is the perfect template as it is 120mm for those 120mm fans) Get a rheostat (variable resistor) and plug the fan into the device. This is to speed up and slow down the fan for adjusting the airflow. Wrap the fans with panty hose and adjust the fan flow for midway between max and minimum speed.

Take the temps again and see if it runs cooler than it did when it was clean. If it does you can either add another layer of panty hose or (if it is loud) slow down the fan to drop the airflow. Adjust to approx. the same temps as the computer is clean.

Another way to keep it clean is to not allow the heat generated by the CPU to mix with the air in the case. Yep, this is gonna cost some money, take a little effort and if you don't know what you are doing...can damage or destroy your computer.

Say you know a guy that builds his own computers and will help you replace the CPU heat sink. The stock heat sinks on computers are not the best thing to cool your computer in lower airflow conditions. The one I find works for me when it comes to this trick is the Thermalright XP90 heat pipe heat sink ($40) The good thing about the Thermalright XP90/XP120 series is the fan does not have to blow down into the heat sink to keep it cool. My fan sucks air off the heat sink and blows straight up and away from the rest of the components. The hot air blows into a short duct that exhausts hot air out the top of the case. (It is a desktop case that is about the size of a stereo receiver) If the heat is pulled off the heat producers in the case and ducted out, it will not heat up the case...just help exhaust the case.

Say you have a tower case sitting on the floor. Have your computer friend remove the stock heat sink, clean off the thermal paste (gooey stuff between the heat sink and CPU die)put a thiiin layer of new thermal paste on and slap on the much, much, MUCH larger Thermalright XP series of heat sinks. The gigantic thing will drop your CPU temps down at least 10C (18F) Make sure it works correctly and move to the next step.

Take the side panel from the computer and install a duct to match the 92mm slow speed fan (for XP92) or 120mm fan (for XP120) The plastic hose has to match were the heat sink is and should be quite a bit larger than the fan for clearance. The hose should fit over the entire depth of the fan but not cover the heat sink portion to allow airflow to the fan.

Fire it up and put your hand over the duct and feel the airflow. Check the temps again and notice how much cooler the computer is running. You can turn down the case fans a bit more if your motherboard, hard drive and CPU temps are running cool. Yep, there is another step on your quest.

It all depends on what computer you are using and if it runs a performance video card. The fastest and hottest video cards from nVidia (6600GT, 6800 and 7800 series) and from ATi (X700/X800/X850) generate some serious heat. A nVidia 6800 Ultra can generate over 80 watts of heat which is more heat than a Athlon64 3800+ (45 watts)

If your computer has a slow video card or intergrated video (most Dells, Gateways, Compaqs etc) don't worry about it. If your son is playing Doom III at high resolutions, better look at the video card! Artic Cooling makes a video card specific cooling system called the Silencer. It has a large 72mm fan blowing air across a ducted heat sink that ducts to the back of the case and out. The slot next to the video card is taken up by that beast so if you can afford the slot, your stuck.

My PC uses the Silencer and the fan runs at 7 volts (rheostat turned all the way down) The card runs 8C (15F) cooler than stock and is...well...silent. I can feel the low airflow blowing off the card at the back of the computer. I presently have an Asus X700 Pro 256MB PCI Express video card and it runs along at 35C (95F) Have the Silencer on your wazoo video card now? Any more steps? Well... yes there is!

On your motherboard there will be another heat sink on the Northbridge chip. Some of these have tiny, whiney little fans on them. Replace it with a Zalman Northbidge heat sink or Cooler Master makes one with heat pipes (they are very large and won't fit some motherboards...better get your computer buddy back at your house!) This gets ugly!

Remove the motherboard from the case and take off the Northbridge heat sink (should be two plastic push pins holding it on) Remove the pins, pull the stock heat sink off and clean the Northbridge chip of thermal goo. Follow the instructions for the Zalman or Cooler Master large heat sink and install it. Put the motherboard back in and check if the temps have changed. Most likely it won't but in my case, the motherboard thermal temp probe sits near the Northbridge and my temps fell 6C (10F)

Now your computer has huge heat pipe heat sinks/ducted video card heat sinks and large filtered fans. Check the temps and adjust the fan speeds accordingly. Are we done yet? All depends... are you the kinda guy that wants it all?

If you are running a recent Intel Pentium4 that uses the Prescott core, replace the motherboard and CPU with either a Athlon64 or PentiumM laptop processor. They generate much less heat, will turn their voltage down when surfing the net and just sitting there and in case of the Athlon64, most motherboards will turn down the CPU and case fan speeds under low load conditions. If playing a game, editing video or running the processor at 100% it will ramp the fan speeds back up at certain temperatures to cool itself. Not good enough? Yep, one LAST step!

Buy a Zalman monster tower with huge heat pipe heat sinks to transfer the heat to the outside of the case. Look Ma! No fans! Talk about lack of dust! One little thing though, it costs $1,200 for the case so...

As you can tell, it all depends on how far you want to go with this. You might of asked to borrow a minimag and I just handed you the plans for a 400+ lumen multiple Luxeon megalight, if so I am sorry.

And yes, my computer runs along very cool, almost silent and a very small case (Athlon64/X700 Pro and many cooling tricks) It has been running almost 6 months now in the severe dust of N TX and southern Turkey without a cleaning. Even without filters, the temps have only jumped 8C (15F) just in time for its cleaning cycle. It has three case fans, a XP90, Artic Cooling Silencer and large Zalman Northbridge heat sink.

Have fun with it and if you don't know how to mess with a computer... get someone who does.
 

tiktok 22

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I actually have NO case fans. The only fans on my PC are the video card, powwersupply and the processor. The side of my case had a window that I removed and replaced with a screen. My case temp went down considerably and the dust is less of a problem than before. If I could get to the point where I wouldn't need any fans, I think the dust would almost be non existant. For my processor fan, I'm using a Zalman CNPS7000cu that works great. If I ever replace my power supply, I'm going with a fanless model from Coolmax or Antec.
 

jtr1962

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Same here. When my power supply was getting flaky I replaced it with Seasonic Tornado. The new supply was so quiet that I went on a noise abatement program with my PC. First I disconnected the case fan. No problems with excessive temperatures. After that I disconnected the processor fan. The processor overheated very rapidly so I reconnected it, but with a resistor to drop it to 8V instead of 12V. Much less noisy, and processor temps rarely get over 40°C. Hard drive temps also rarely get above 40°C. The system is barely audible. Most of the noise comes from the 4 hard drives, with a little from the processor fan. My video card has no fan, and if I upgrade I'll purpose choose another passively-cooled card.

Next time around I'll go with an entirely passively-cooled system and I'm sure they'll be available by the time I outgrow this PC. A PC case easily provides enough area to effectively cool the heat load but it needs to be designed to do it. As a bonus, the case would be completely sealed so no chance for dust to come in.
 

BentHeadTX

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For more information on cooling your computer quietly...with less airflow etc and not bake your parts. Go to silentpc.com, there is an amazing amount of information concerning cases, power supplies, fans etc.
The operator of that site uses one 120mm exhaust ran running at around 5 volts with giant heat sinks everywere. Just like CPF, keep an eye on your wallet!
 

DarkLight

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A quiet pc is easy to build... a quiet high performance overclocked to the hilt pc will never be quiet unless watercooled...
 

watt4

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I was at Borders Books yesterday, and on the front cover of a linux magazine was a picture of a large "no fan" computer, looked like it was in an open wood frame. had something like 32 gigs of ram, and was watercooled.


in a standard configuration home pc, what kind of chip power can be utilized without a fan,.....or maybe with just a heatsink?
 

IsaacHayes

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Can someone recommend a good performing quite Processor HS and Fan?

I have a P4 Northwood 2.8 800mhz FSB and I have a vent pipe that goes over it and vents directly outside of the case. I have the stock all aluminum P4 HS and fan. It is very noisy and is going out I think as I can hear it spin up and down and it sounds "squeaky"... My other fans are super quite.

I lapped the stock HS and I'm using AA grease. CPU according to the MB is 50 C, under load (doom3) it goes up to 51C. But those sensors vary from computer to computer, so it's more realtive than absoulte...

Any help is apprecaited. I don't have a lot to spend, and I don't want somethign too wide as it will interfer with my mother board... Thanks..
 

BentHeadTX

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Watt4,
Your question of what kind of CPU can be utilized without a fan with just a heat sink is easy! A VIA Technologies 1GHz CPU can run without a fan...the thing will protect itself and they have a video of just pulling the heat sink off the chip and letting it run a video game.
Another CPU is Transmeta, not quite sure of all the specs but it hits around 3 watts of power or 40 times less than a Prescott core P4. If you want to step back into reality, there is another way.
If you are running an Asus P4 (Socket 478) board, an add-on adapter will allow a Pentium M laptop processor to be installed. The great part of that is you can run massive coolers to cool the 20 watt Pentium M. Say a Thermalright XP120 heat pipe heat sink with no fan or one of those monster Sythe heat pipe coolers. Slap it on and forget the fan, those beasts will cool the CPU very well.
I have a smaller XP90 heat sink and I shut off the fan and let it cook at 100% load for a few hours. My CPU is an Athlon64 3000+ Winchester core and the max temp was 69C (156F) The max watts it generates is 29 watts so the Pentium M will run quite a bit cooler. The XP120 and Sythe coolers will work even better and I would expect temps in the 50's at max load. Laptop processors can handle more heat than desktop so it should work for you.
You can also get a microATX motherboard that takes Pentium M processors natively. The only problem is they don't have clearance for large heat sinks.
The problem with running a passive CPU, passive video card and fanless power supply is there is no airflow in the case! The massive heat buildup will rise and cook the power supply in the heat.
The SilentPC crew got with Antec to build a silent case that will run cool. Basically, the power supply is mounted in the bottom and the air pulled through it will pass over the hard drives mounted in the front. The PSU/hard drives sit in a sealed tunnel under the motherboard.
At the top and top rear of the case are 120mm fans. These cause the cross flow in the case and keep it all cool and quiet.
It works very well with Athlon64 processors with a single 120mm top exhaust fan (sits next to the CPU heat sink) Throw a Seasonic power supply in the bottom so it's flow will cool the hard drives and an Athlon64 Winchester or Venice core topped off with a Sythe mega heat sink.
The other option is to pick up a Panasonic Toughbook CFM-29 magnesium chassis laptop. It runs a Pentium M ULV processor (Ultra Low Voltage) at 1.3GHz. Generates so little heat that it sinks straight to the magnesium chassis. No fans but it starts at $4,000+
 
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