Shuttle Return
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Pydpiper
Flashlight Enthusiast
She's down.. Safe and sound.
UncleFester
Flashaholic*,
YESSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!
greenLED
Flashaholic
I can't help myself and cry whenever something happens to the shuttle. It's great to know they're back home.
yuandrew
Flashlight Enthusiast
They actually landed several miles North-West of where I am at Edward's AFB at 5:11AM (Pacific Time) this morning. I slept through the double sonic boom though (The last shuttle landing in California was heard in our neighborhood)
In case you don't know how they get the shuttle back to Florida from Califronia; it rides on top of a modified 747
In case you don't know how they get the shuttle back to Florida from Califronia; it rides on top of a modified 747
IlluminatingBikr
Flashlight Enthusiast
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2003
- Messages
- 2,320
I saw a video of the shuttle riding on top of the 747 - it's amazing it stays on there. I believe the ride costs NASA 1 million dollars, or somewhere about there.
The_LED_Museum
*Retired*
[ QUOTE ]
IlluminatingBikr said:
...I believe the ride costs NASA 1 million dollars, or somewhere about there.
[/ QUOTE ]
I heard that the trip from California to Florida costs approximately $3,000,000.00 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif
IlluminatingBikr said:
...I believe the ride costs NASA 1 million dollars, or somewhere about there.
[/ QUOTE ]
I heard that the trip from California to Florida costs approximately $3,000,000.00 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif
They need to retire the Shuttle. It's amazing work they do, but it's just too complex and expensive. It's holding us back.
NASA realizes this, but of course, like any government agency, it's about 10 years too late.
The CXV (Crew Exploration Vehicle) concepts look promising, especially the ones from the joint venture that Burt Rutan's Scaled Composites is participating in.
As romantic as it first appeared the Swiss Army Knife approach to space travel does not work well. Until the final landing, the wings, tail, thermal tiles etc. of the Shuttle are just dead weight, and are bait for any number of potentially catastrophic failures. At least in terms of getting off the ground, and back down to it, that's where 90% of all the energy and danger are. NASA just needs a safe, simple little "grocery getter" to put people into space, and a separate unmanned heavy-lift cargo hauler, where they can take risks and cut corners if need be.
NASA realizes this, but of course, like any government agency, it's about 10 years too late.
The CXV (Crew Exploration Vehicle) concepts look promising, especially the ones from the joint venture that Burt Rutan's Scaled Composites is participating in.
As romantic as it first appeared the Swiss Army Knife approach to space travel does not work well. Until the final landing, the wings, tail, thermal tiles etc. of the Shuttle are just dead weight, and are bait for any number of potentially catastrophic failures. At least in terms of getting off the ground, and back down to it, that's where 90% of all the energy and danger are. NASA just needs a safe, simple little "grocery getter" to put people into space, and a separate unmanned heavy-lift cargo hauler, where they can take risks and cut corners if need be.
idleprocess
Flashaholic
I have to agree about the shuttle needing retirement. It has never fulfilled its promise of to reduce the cost of spaceflight and make it routine. It was also sold under the assumotion that it would launch on an almost bi-weekly basis at near-maximum weight (after the first few launches, they decided that launching at "maximum" weight was a bad idea). Even the Russians abandoned their shuttle concept - "Buran," I think - which bore an unnerving resemblance to ours.
In fact, each launch costs roughly $1 billion, most of it going to aerospace contractors. NASA has tried to eliminate the sghuttle program a number of times, and the contractors (and congressmen representing districts the aerospace contractors inhabit) wouldn't let them do it.
There are far better concepts out there in terms of launch vehicles ... and they'll likely be obsolete without our lifetime since the critical material for space elevators - the cable - has been discovered (the carbon nanotube).
In fact, each launch costs roughly $1 billion, most of it going to aerospace contractors. NASA has tried to eliminate the sghuttle program a number of times, and the contractors (and congressmen representing districts the aerospace contractors inhabit) wouldn't let them do it.
There are far better concepts out there in terms of launch vehicles ... and they'll likely be obsolete without our lifetime since the critical material for space elevators - the cable - has been discovered (the carbon nanotube).
Space Elevator
The space elevator would just be wicked cool.
Leaving the motor "at home" on Earth saves so much weight it's efficiency would be insane compared to any rocket. I believe there's even talk of it generating it's own power, if you put some conductive wires alongside the main structural carbon nanotube ribbon, it will generate an enormous voltage potential as it is swung through the Earth's Magnetosphere. True, to those who understand generators and motors will imediately recognize that this energy would come at the expense of the Earth's rotation, but the ammount is infestimal and would take millions of years to ad even a second to the length of the day...
The space elevator has to have it's center of mass at geostationary orbit, with balanced endpoints on the surface of Earth, and the other end in a further out orbit. That end is moving much faster than the natural speed of that orbit, so besides being just a counterweight it can "sling" payloads almost every direction in the Solar System every 24 hours as the Earth rotates. That saves even more fuel for planetary probes and missions.
The space elevator would just be wicked cool.
Leaving the motor "at home" on Earth saves so much weight it's efficiency would be insane compared to any rocket. I believe there's even talk of it generating it's own power, if you put some conductive wires alongside the main structural carbon nanotube ribbon, it will generate an enormous voltage potential as it is swung through the Earth's Magnetosphere. True, to those who understand generators and motors will imediately recognize that this energy would come at the expense of the Earth's rotation, but the ammount is infestimal and would take millions of years to ad even a second to the length of the day...
The space elevator has to have it's center of mass at geostationary orbit, with balanced endpoints on the surface of Earth, and the other end in a further out orbit. That end is moving much faster than the natural speed of that orbit, so besides being just a counterweight it can "sling" payloads almost every direction in the Solar System every 24 hours as the Earth rotates. That saves even more fuel for planetary probes and missions.
raggie33
*the raggedier*
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2003
- Messages
- 13,500
Re: Space Elevator
im going to make my own space shuttle ill give free rides to cpf.we can all go to pluto .they have free cotton candy there but the water is almost 3 bucks per gallon so bring ya own water dress casual like disco era
im going to make my own space shuttle ill give free rides to cpf.we can all go to pluto .they have free cotton candy there but the water is almost 3 bucks per gallon so bring ya own water dress casual like disco era
bindibadgi
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Space Elevator
Disco, woohoo!
Wait, did I say that out loud?
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crackup.gif raggie.
Disco, woohoo!
Wait, did I say that out loud?
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crackup.gif raggie.
Neg2LED
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Space Elevator
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Awesome raggz! i'll bring my way-too-overpowerec slightly scary boombox and we'll see if those SETI guys pick up some signals from pluto! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I wonder how old we will be when we get back..... 10 years older? 20?
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
neg
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Awesome raggz! i'll bring my way-too-overpowerec slightly scary boombox and we'll see if those SETI guys pick up some signals from pluto! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I wonder how old we will be when we get back..... 10 years older? 20?
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
neg
James S
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Space Elevator
the problem with retiring the shuttle is that there are still jobs that only it can do. Like repair stuff in orbit, or bring it home and pikcup people from the ISS. We actually have some contracts for a certain number of ISS flights that we have to make (which the shuttle probably wont be able to meet the sheer number of them promised anyway) You can't just shut it down while you work out something else. They need to be organized enough to keep the shuttles running while they finish the new vehicle whatever that might be otherwise it will be years again before we can put people in orbit.
One of NASA's biggest conceptual problems over the last decade or so is that they have had no interest in using existing technologies but have spent a lot of time investigating things that won't be ready for a long time. And so with all the effort pointed so far out in the future they forgot that they needed something that worked in the short term. While I think the Advanced Propulsion Lab is on the list of the coolest things human beings are doing at the moment, you can't rely on that in the short term! Which is why the talk of contracting with burt rutan and his ilk of actual working engineers is so exciting. These people know how to take existing technologies and make them work and adapt them, rather than develop whole new branches of science to make stuff happen in the distant future.
the problem with retiring the shuttle is that there are still jobs that only it can do. Like repair stuff in orbit, or bring it home and pikcup people from the ISS. We actually have some contracts for a certain number of ISS flights that we have to make (which the shuttle probably wont be able to meet the sheer number of them promised anyway) You can't just shut it down while you work out something else. They need to be organized enough to keep the shuttles running while they finish the new vehicle whatever that might be otherwise it will be years again before we can put people in orbit.
One of NASA's biggest conceptual problems over the last decade or so is that they have had no interest in using existing technologies but have spent a lot of time investigating things that won't be ready for a long time. And so with all the effort pointed so far out in the future they forgot that they needed something that worked in the short term. While I think the Advanced Propulsion Lab is on the list of the coolest things human beings are doing at the moment, you can't rely on that in the short term! Which is why the talk of contracting with burt rutan and his ilk of actual working engineers is so exciting. These people know how to take existing technologies and make them work and adapt them, rather than develop whole new branches of science to make stuff happen in the distant future.
raggie33
*the raggedier*
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2003
- Messages
- 13,500
Re: Space Elevator
but its weird how old the shuttle is.i magine how computer was back and cars so a new shuttle would be so much better i think isnt like 20 years old?still amazes me what it does though.
but its weird how old the shuttle is.i magine how computer was back and cars so a new shuttle would be so much better i think isnt like 20 years old?still amazes me what it does though.
