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Thread: Concept Behind Reverse Clicky

  1. #1
    this_is_nascar's Avatar
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    Default Concept Behind Reverse Clicky

    With the addition of the Aurora and the Fenix, I'm now faced with the reverse clicky. I've stated in previous post that I don't care for this type of clicky. Is there a conceptual advantage to this type of clicky that has caused some lights to use this method? Why would a manufacturer use the reverse clicky instead of the "standard" version? Is it a regional thing, maybe?
    ... it's not what you take when you leave this world behind you, It's what you leave behind you when you go.

  2. #2
    Flashaholic* chimo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept Behind Reverse Clicky

    TIN, it's most likely cheaper to manufacture a reverse-clicky switch with a decent current carrying capacity. They also seem to have a lower profile. Here is a thread that shows the internals of a Q3 switch.

    Paul

  3. #3
    Flashaholic* Flash_Gordon's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Re: Concept Behind Reverse Clicky

    Hi TIN-

    I don't know if there is any advantage. The only thing I have noticed is that you are going to use the light in a blinker type mode it is somewhat easier to reliably cycle it on and off once the tailcap has been clicked. Don' t know how often this comes up. Obvious big disadvantage to me is if you want momentary light you have to turn it on constant first and when you release it is on.


    As for region, I have only seen the reverse clickie in lights manufactured in Asia. Not all Asian lights have this feature, so I don't know if or where some preference for this feature exists.

    They can scrap the concept as far as I am concerned.

    MARK

  4. #4
    Flashaholic* LEDcandle's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept Behind Reverse Clicky

    Compared to a regular clickie, a reverse clickie sux.

    But compared to a light that only has a clickie on/off (no momentary), at least you have the option of a 'momentary off' (for whatever reason*).

    Also, reverse clickies don't accidentally turn on in your pocket/bag (of coz if they had tailcap locks, that would be best)

    * some far-fetched reasons why a reverse clickie might be good (I have too much time) :
    1) While your light is on constant on, you can signal with morse code, whereas a clickie would have to be turned off first, same goes for a twistie.

    2) If you are checking out enemy grounds with torch on constant on and you hear someone coming, you can go 'stealth' easily without any sound. If he discovers you and whacks you on the face causing you to drop your torch, you can still find it easily later after beating him up because it will be on.

    A regular clickie would have to make a click sound and a twistie is even slower to turn off.

    3) I'm just plain nuts and am finding ridiculous reasons why a reverse clickie rocks

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Concept Behind Reverse Clicky

    At one time in the past, I used momentary on with my lights. Probably when I was feeling more 'tactical'. And I certainly use expensive incandescent 123A eating lights in momentary mode often. But for most of my lights (and especially an efficient LED light) I simply see no point in holding my finger on the button. Just turn it on. Use it. Then turn it off. There are very few situations where a momentary on is actually needed...

    edit: I think the only advantage of 'normal' clickies is that you get light quicker. But once again, I don't think many of us use lights in a situation where the extra fraction of a second is meaningful.

    Mark
    Last edited by Minjin; 09-08-2005 at 08:30 PM.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Concept Behind Reverse Clicky

    IIRC reverse clickies are easier to manufactur in a reliable way and thus cheaper and more widely available. And as Minjin said ... for non-tactical long-running LED-lights like the Fenix I really don't care as long as the switch is a decent one.
    bernie

    P.S.: it is a different story with a high-powered SF light ... there the true clicky is much appreciated.
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  7. #7
    this_is_nascar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept Behind Reverse Clicky

    Thanks for the input guys.
    ... it's not what you take when you leave this world behind you, It's what you leave behind you when you go.

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    Default Re: Concept Behind Reverse Clicky

    If you are checking out enemy grounds with torch on constant on and you hear someone coming, you can go 'stealth' easily without any sound. If he discovers you and whacks you on the face causing you to drop your torch, you can still find it easily later after beating him up because it will be on.
    Of course, if it's YOU that gets beaten up, he'll find it easier to steal your flashlight, too...

    Anyway, I also detest reverse clickies and LOVE momentary-on. I'm thinking all that on-off clicking, for only a moment's light when needed, will somehow wear out the switch prematurely.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Concept Behind Reverse Clicky

    Can someone explain the differences between a clickie and reverse clickie ?

  10. #10
    Flashaholic* LEDcandle's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept Behind Reverse Clicky

    2dim : Nah, what's the chance he'll be a flashaholic too? haha Maybe he'll be distracted by the sudden switching on of the light and you can land a punch of your own... :P

    nystrpr : a clickie is a torch with a button that when pressed lightly, will provide momentary light and if pressed all the way, will "click" into constant on mode.

    A reverse clickie does nothing when pressed lightly while its off. Full pressure will "click" it on. While it is on however, pressing the button lightly will momentarily shut off the light.
    Last edited by LEDcandle; 09-09-2005 at 09:10 AM. Reason: spelling

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Concept Behind Reverse Clicky

    Hello Nystrpr,

    When you press a clickie, the light turns on momentarily, then you can click it to keep it on.

    When you press a reverse clickie, nothing happens. The light turns on once it has clicked, then can be momentarily shut off with a slight press.

    Tom
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  12. #12
    Flashaholic* StoneDog's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept Behind Reverse Clicky

    OK, I'm not a big fan of them either, but there is one advantage in that accidental-on is less likely. In other words a clicky that allows momentary-on may be subject accidental (if momentary) activation while in a pocket, bag or even cupboard drawer. Yes, there are button guards and LOTC to prevent this sort of thing with some clicky lights but in general reverse-clicky lights are less prone to accidental activiation.

    Before I get slammed I did say I'm not a big fan of them - in fact I only have three lights with reverse-clickies and two of them are cheap (almost disposable) lights that I keep for emergencies only. The third is a Brinkmann NexStar that AFAIK isn't even produced anymore.

    Jon
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  13. #13
    Flashaholic* Ray_of_Light's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept Behind Reverse Clicky

    I have been wondering why asian manufacturers have inverted the so-natural concept of the Click switch, that "naturally" has, so far, turned on and then clicked.
    Their light clicks first, then turn on.

    For over a year I have been wondering why. Finally, I grasped the concept.

    A forward clickie switch had to win the resistance of the spring before it clicks. It means that the spring has to have enough dynamics to push the contacts together after it has clicked in place, as well as to accomodate the "overshoot" that occur before the contacts clicks in place.

    A spring not properly dimensioned, or with the wrong mechanical properties, makes a very bad forward clickie switch. The same spring would make an acceptable reverse clickie.

    That is. The reverse clickie is the result of a cheap way of thinking.

    I have been getting mad, lately, with the switch of the Q3. Historically, it was a reverse clickie. Now Nuwai has replaced the switch with a TACTICAL switch, which I understood to be a standard forward clickie switch.

    So I bought two more Q3s, with the idea to use them as they are, stock.

    In the reality, Nuwai has "modified" the reverse clickie. It is still a reverse clickie as it is mechanically built, but has an ADDITIONAL leaf contact inside, that closes when you start pushing in the switch. So you have:
    PUSH - ON - CLICK - OFF - ON AGAIN. The same happens when you do the opposite cycle, with the result that if you turn the Q3 on and off rapidly, it looks like a strobe light. I felt fooled.

    So I ripped off two switches I had from some old SL TTs, and I now have two two-stage Q3s. They are "normal" reverse switches, that I can live with. I can't, with TACTICAL STROBE switches from SING-FAI (It is the factory of the new switches).

    Regards

    Anthony
    Last edited by Ray_of_Light; 09-10-2005 at 02:45 PM.
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    *Flashaholic* Icebreak's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept Behind Reverse Clicky

    It is part of a conspiracy to cause frustration and KAOS.

    There are many objects we encounter in our day-to-day lives that are part of this conspiracy. One of the most successful is the Bic lighter. It comes in some colors that are pleasing and some that are not. It is designed to work fairly well and fit in your hand very comfortably. So comfortably that it satisfies a psychological desire to have something in your hand. It becomes your lighter. If someone needs a flame and borrows your Bic, it is unlikely they will give it back because their brain thinks it is their lighter. There are arguments going on all over the world as we speak about who stole who’s lighter. "Naw man, that's my lighter because it's dark blue." It's psychological warfare.

    Another not-so-successful attempt was the Bic Click. It was only effective on certain types of personalities and did work with mine. This was a ballpoint pen designed to break at between 17 and 21 slow, normal clicks. However, if it were clicked in rapid succession it would last to around 2500/3000 clicks. It is frustrating when one's pen breaks when trying to complete a transaction but that wasn't the insanity. When people's Bic Clicks would break, many of them would not throw it away; they would put it back in their can of pens next to the phone. Then, someone like me would come along, retrieve it for use and become quite irritated knowing someone did not just simply throw it away. "If it don't work just throw it away! What? Are you saving it thinking one day you'll take it apart and fix it? Moron!"

    It gets better. Remember rapid use would work thousands of times. So, someone like me might be trying to make an important point in a staff meeting. Meanwhile, some overly caffeinated pee-brain would be furiously clicking away, distracting others in the meeting. I would yell, "Would you please stop clicking your fricking Bic!?!?!" My point wouldn't be made, I would be sent to anger management treatment and the pee-brain would get a sympathetic promotion. Inefficiency would reign within the organization finally putting it out of business. Kaos.

    My sources tell me that in fiscal 2007 a new product will be introduced. It will be a small flashlight using the same oval anti-roll shape and size as a Bic lighter. It will come with a reverse clicky.

    I can only imagine what this is going to do to human relations and the world economy. It's a conspiracy I tell you. And it's not paranoia if they are really out to get you.

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  15. #15

    Default Re: Concept Behind Reverse Clicky

    Errrr ...... who/what/when/why is momentary on, any more useful than just on ???

    I couldn't care less about the clickie - just as long as it makes the thing shine bright

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Concept Behind Reverse Clicky

    I love clickies and I actually PREFER reverse clickies. As some alluded to, I like the fact they won't accidentally activate near as easily as regular clickies will. I've had some "hot pockets" in the past with regular clickies! If I need momentary on, it's no big deal for me to just click the light on.

  17. #17
    this_is_nascar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept Behind Reverse Clicky

    I guess my biggest issue is that if you want quick, momentary light, you need to entirely activate the light, than turn it off.
    ... it's not what you take when you leave this world behind you, It's what you leave behind you when you go.

  18. #18
    Flashaholic* StoneDog's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept Behind Reverse Clicky

    Exactly what TIN said. Momentary-on switches (clicky or twisty) are superior in that with just a bit of pressure (half press, if you will) you can turn on the light, see what you need and release. With a reverse clicky you're looking at two full clickes to cycle the switch through on and back to off. Inefficient, especially for tactical concerns. Does it matter for an emergency or camping light? No. Does it matter to a true flashaholic? It better!

    Jon
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  19. #19
    Flashaholic* chevrofreak's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept Behind Reverse Clicky

    I read very few posts in this thread so my input may be echoing that of another.

    While cheaper and much smaller the reverse clickies due to their design are also more reliable. They provide a more solid path for the current to travel and seem to have very little resistance.

    I've used many, many different lights that had reverse clickies and "normal" clickies and in most of the "normal" clickies I have noticed that the brightness of the light fluctuates if you slowly press the switch in, this to me says that there isnt a solid contact being made and could lead to reliability problems down the road. I have not had any reliability problems with reverse clickies and have come to prefer them for pocket carry due to the greatly reduced chance of accidental activation.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Concept Behind Reverse Clicky

    There have been dozens of threads about this very subject in the last few years and the consensus is about 50/50 on regular versus reverse clickies. I prefer reverse clickies for the very reason Jon prefers regular clickies. That light touch or half pressure on a regular clickie for momentary activation has burned me more than once with dead cells. I almost consider a reverse clickie having a "lock-out" feature. As far as two full cycles with a reverse clickie, heck even this ol' man can accomplish that in an eye blink even in a stress or tactical situation. If a reverse clickie is inefficient for tactical or stressful situations, man, that makes a twist switch down right totally lacking! I agree with chevro in that I've also noticed more positive contact with reverse clickies. Bottom line is, to each their own and I'm sure this debate will hang around forever. MY bottom line is I LOVE a good clickie, regular or reverse!

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    Default Re: Concept Behind Reverse Clicky

    I'll echo everyone's sentiments for enjoying the reduced risk of accidental activation but agree that instant (and silent) momentary is useful. For me its not really a big deal since if you are in a situation where you will be using the light frequently for a bit of spotting, but don't want to keep it on and waste batteries, you can just partially hold for off and let go for on.

    The only thing I really don't like about reverse clickies is that you have to make noise (often quite a loud click) to get light- among non-flashaholics it kind of announces "flashlight geek to the rescue!"

    But hey, if it is a more reliable and circuit-friendly switch, I'm all for it.

  22. #22
    Flashaholic* greenlight's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept Behind Reverse Clicky

    My new rrAA is has that switch. The best I could do was unscrew the tailcap to try to get some momentary action. That sort of works.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Concept Behind Reverse Clicky

    For most lights I'd prefer a regular clicky with a heavy enough swich that accidental activation was not an issue. I guess I also prefer to be able to momentarily light something up without having to turn it all the way on then click again to turn it off.

    However I sure wish HID lights had switches that were not reverse or standard clicky. That is, no momentary on or off whatsoever. That would help avoid to accidental restrikes.

  24. #24
    Flashaholic* srvctec's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept Behind Reverse Clicky

    Quote Originally Posted by LEDcandle
    * some far-fetched reasons why a reverse clickie might be good (I have too much time) :

    2) If you are checking out enemy grounds with torch on constant on and you hear someone coming, you can go 'stealth' easily without any sound. If he discovers you and whacks you on the face causing you to drop your torch, you can still find it easily later after beating him up because it will be on.
    LMAO!! Yup, too much time!

    That was hilarious!



  25. #25
    Flashaholic* AuroraLite's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept Behind Reverse Clicky

    Quote Originally Posted by Solstice
    I'll echo everyone's sentiments for enjoying the reduced risk of accidental activation but agree that instant (and silent) momentary is useful. For me its not really a big deal since if you are in a situation where you will be using the light frequently for a bit of spotting, but don't want to keep it on and waste batteries, you can just partially hold for off and let go for on.

    The only thing I really don't like about reverse clickies is that you have to make noise (often quite a loud click) to get light- among non-flashaholics it kind of announces "flashlight geek to the rescue!"

    But hey, if it is a more reliable and circuit-friendly switch, I'm all for it.
    Ditto.

    I guess the only one good thing about reverse clickie is probably it might be easier to work with for certain electronics (for ex, the late POP circuits). Personally, so as long the clickie has enough resistance to prevent easy-accidental-on, I am all for it.

    The only thing that really, really sucks is the current kroll is it's high reisitance, easy to malfunction and the rubber boot gets out of shape rather quickly(it's a dust magnet!). Give me a new improved sure-fire version, and I will be a happy man.
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  26. #26
    Flashaholic* Paul_in_Maryland's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept Behind Reverse Clicky

    Solid contact, no accidental turn-on--these observations have made me feel better about my reverse-clickie lights. I'll never again regard a reverse clickie as a "poor man's" switch. Thanks!
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  27. #27
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    Default Re: Concept Behind Reverse Clicky

    I dunno if it works, I've been meaning to try it for some time, but ViReN suggested copper plating the springs in the kroll switch to get rid of some resistance. IIRC, all you need is a copper solution (I forgot exactly what it was), and a few D cells.

  28. #28
    Flashaholic* chevrofreak's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept Behind Reverse Clicky

    I fell asleep in my recliner the other day and woke up to an uncomfortable warmness in my pants.

    My Surefire E2e had come on and was cooking my bacon. A reverse clickie wouldnt have done that.

  29. #29
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    Ooo Re: Concept Behind Reverse Clicky

    Quote Originally Posted by chevrofreak
    I fell asleep in my recliner the other day and woke up to an uncomfortable warmness in my pants.

    My Surefire E2e had come on and was cooking my bacon...
    Image of Homer Simpson awakening springs to mind..."ooo bacon --- yeeow!!!"

  30. #30
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    Ooo Re: Concept Behind Reverse Clicky

    Quote Originally Posted by chevrofreak
    My Surefire E2e had come on and was cooking my bacon. A reverse clickie wouldnt have done that.
    I have had my QIII come on, and try to cook my "bacon". It can happen. I was carrying it IWB at the time, but that was one of the reasons I quit carrying it. Maybe I am the only one in the world it happened to, but it happened.


    Blades

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