What is flawed about the automotive company you prefer?

Saaby

Flashaholic
Joined
Jun 17, 2002
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7,447
Location
Utah
This is a similar thread to the other one running right now on in the Café -- "What automobile company do you prefer?"

I think the sign of a true fan is somebody who doesn't just know what's good about a company or it's models, but can point out it's flaws as well. This isn't a thread to bash on a car you hate. It's a thread to bash on a car you love.

I'll start. We own a Saab 9-5 at my house. Fantastic car, but we're not here to talk about what's good -- we're here to talk about what's bad!


DI Cassette: This is a 1 piece modular unit that replaces your traditional spark system. Instead of ignition packs and wires and such it's juts 1 big cassette that sits on top of the spark plugs. It should be more reliable, but I'm not sure it is. Problem is if 1 piece of it goes you you have to replace the whole part -- and it's not cheap! It's a $250 part. Some go 30k miles, some go 90k. Better pray yours fails at low speed because if they fail while you're traveling at speed sometimes you loose your Catalytic too. Ours failed at 36k while I was in a Carls Jr. drive-though.

Climate Control: The air conditioning in this car works great, but the computer that controls it is horrid! It blows air through the vents until the car is about 90º (Down from over 100º) and then it puts the distribution mode to defrost and floor vents. That will get you down to 72º -- in about a year. If you want to get cool in any reasonable amount of time you have to manually over-ride the system.

Oil Sludging: The story goes that the government changed some emissions requirements which forced Saab to redesign the PCV system at the last minute. Whatever the reason, this engine is one that can have oil starvation issues. Fortunately, the issues rarely crop up if you are faithful about your {Full synthetic} oil changes -- and Saab have stepped in with an 8 year/unlimited mile warranty on their engines so long as you can prove you've done regular maintenance.

Now those sound like pretty bad things, but obviously I think the good out-weighs the bad on this car or else we wouldn't own one.

So lets hear what your favorite make and/or model is, and everything that's wrong with it.
 

evan9162

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 18, 2002
Messages
2,639
Location
Boise, ID
My 00 Maxima:
The A/C is weak. It works great when you're travelling down the highway, but trotting around town, it takes too long to get cold. However, having it on doesn't affect my mileage one bit. Somewhat related to that, the rear window defroster is also weak as hell, and takes forever to get rid of frost.

The transmission (auto) shifts too softly. I figure that's to give it a "luxury" feel, and to not scare the (supposedly) much older crowd that buys a lot of Maximas. I'd prefer crisp, snappy shifting, and often wonder about transmission longevity.

Paint: Nissan went cheap-*** on the paint. The front bumper (plastic) and front of the hood are pock-marked to death. Waxing the car makes things worse, since there are now lots of white specks everywere. Lucklily, the car is silver, so looking at if from only a little bit away, the chips blend into the paint.

The trunk lid has torsion bars to help take the weight, but with an trunk opener on the keychain remote, I wish they would have made the trunk spring open on its own when it's popped.


Our 99 Camry:
Both myself and my wife are just barely comfortable when the driver's seat is all the way back. It'd be kinda nice to have a couple extra notches to move the seat back farther. If either of us were any taller, we wouldn't be comfortable driving it.

We got our car used. The original owners got it new, and ordered special options. One was the enhanced upgraded security alarm. I'd like to personally find the engineer that designed the interactions and behavior of this alarm system and slap him, first with a wet trout, then with a bag of doorknobs.
First, the remote has two buttons - one that does everything, and one that only works on a second car with the exact same security system. So, the one button locks, unlocks, and sets off the panic alarm - the button is big and easy to hit, so panic can be set off quite easily...plus, you have to look at the door locks to make sure the button press you just did actually locked the doors, and didn't unlock them again. The other button is pretty much useless. Nice that Toyota wasted 50% of the size of the key fob for a feature that like 1% of their buyers would use. Notice the lack of anything related to the trunk. You must use the key or release lever to open the trunk. You can't do this from the remote.
Here are a list of the annoying alarm-related behaviors:
- If any door (passenger, trunk, or hood) is open when you attempt to lock the car, you get an annoying 10 second, high pitch squeal. On my Maxima, I can lock and arm the car with a door open, then close the door and have everything be secure.
- If you open the trunk when the car is locked (armed), the alarm goes off. You must unlock the car, then open the trunk with the key. So much for convienence of having a remote
- If you unlock the car, then don't open a door for 30 seconds, it re-locks and arms its self - this is only half annoying...
- The default behavior is to lock the doors when you put the car in gear. (This can be disabled)
The alarm is so annoying to try to work around, that I just disabled it entirely, which eliminated much of the annoying behavior. I was able to disable some more of the stupid options as well. So the "supar advanced" security system now leaves our vehicle less secure because of how much it distrupts our use of the car.

The dome light will stay on forever if a door is only half closed (first latch). My maxima has a 30 second timer on the dome light, keeping the battery from running down.

The trunk and gas release handles are on the floor almost under the driver's seat. On my maxima, they're in a nice location on the driver's door. Snow and muck/mud/dirt can get on the handles, making opening the trunk or gas door kinda icky.

The suspension is soft. Really soft. Lots of nosedive in heavy breaking. It might mean that it needs new shocks, but I have a feeling that it's just the nature of the car.

The 4-banger leaves me wanting quite often. Most of this is me being spoiled by my V-6 Maxima.
 
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IsaacHayes

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Jan 30, 2003
Messages
5,876
Location
Missouri
I won't go into all cars by my company, but just mine. 94 Chevy Beretta. 3100 SFI v6 165hp 189ft/lb torque.

1) Lower intake manifold Gasket: These last around 100k miles. (well I guess that isn't too bad but the engine can go easily 300k if taken care of). They are plastic with silicone o-ring type seals. The plastic will warp with heat/age and then the silicone seals are no longer in place, leaking coolant outside of the motor, or into your oil. Mine was into the oil, but I caught it as soon as it happened. If you don't the coolant will attack your main bearings and there goes your motor. I did the job my self for $70 in parts (oil, coolant, gaskets, new serpetine belt, etc). If taken to a shop expect to be charged ~$500 and they probably won't put in a new oil-pump shaft o-ring or change the cam sensor, stuff that needs replacing at that time and is hard to get to with the intake on. You could tell them, but most people don't know stuff about cars... The previous generation 3.1L MPFI motor had a simple flat gasket that you torqued down harder and didn't leak. So they took a step backwards on this design IMO.

2) Airconditioner Compressor: They changed styles/brands on my year and it leaks around the case of the compressor. It still works, but leaks. It started leaking at 178,000 miles. The year before, once again, had a different style that didn't leak.

3) Water leaking into cabin: This one bugs me the most. I've taken out my carpet as it was rubber backed and holding water under it. The caulk they used rotted after 11 years and lets water in the seams of the firewall. I've caulked with black roof glue/caulk these following areas that leaked: vertical seam going from bottom of firewall up to top near the cowl drain hole. Seam between strut tower and firewall, area around wires going into firewall. Also there was 2 other leaks that weren't the fault of the car. One was aftermarket cruise control wires going through the firewall right below the cowl water drain that weren't sealed good enough. And a leak around the heater core that I replaced. I guess I should of put some sealer around it... I also caulked other seams that weren't leaking and caulked the whole entire cowl area just incase they decided to let go shortly after... I still have to caulk the heater core and then I *think* I'm done with the leaks and I can put my carpet back in. Takes a long time to caulk, let dry, test, find leak, caulk, find next leak etc. *phew*!


I'm not including the suspension even though I replaced the springs/shocks because it would bottom out on every dip in the road at 30mph. The reason they were so worn out is the previous owner put 110,000 miles on it towing a trailor with this car!! :huh: Shocks need to be replaced at that time anyways. I also but strut tower brace and large solid sway bars, new springs, struts, strutmounts and now this car rides like it's on rails. Really fun to keep up with transams & corvettes in the corners!

I'm not including stuff like alternator, battery, water pump, spark plugs, thermostat and other things either. Those are all wear parts and I expect them to get old after 11+ years and ~200k miles. The motor is strong in my old car, not leaking any noticeable oil after 4k miles on an oil change. This motor seems faster than most other 3100 cars I've drove, and I've beat many cars that should be faster than mine easily. I drive my car hard, and it acts like it's made for it. The interior is in great shape as the previous owner and me have not trashed it like some young kids would. It still looks and functions as new.

The car fits me well, and when driving other cars I'm annoyed by certain things they lack or have done differently causing little annoynces I'm not used to. I haven't drove a car that I said "wow I wish mine had this". Other than mine not having RWD 350 V8 w/6 speed manual that was in a '96 Firebird Formula I drove. :)

All in all I shouldn't have too much to complain about since my car is so old and has so many miles on it. I look at all of the other cars my friends have gone through, and I still have mine. It looks like a new car, and runs/handles like new as well. And I fix the other things that go wrong. :thumbsup:
 

IsaacHayes

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Jan 30, 2003
Messages
5,876
Location
Missouri
One other thing. My 94 was the first year with this motor/transmision. It is a hybrid ODBI & ODBII. It is running ODBI but has a weird connector, and does not run a MAF sensor, but a IAT sensor only. Mid-95 they switched to full ODBII and it got a MAF and other things that's why the 95 lost 5 hp.
The motor mount was changed the next year (95) and is more beefier. I swapped one on to mine as I ripped mine in half (I told you I drive hard!). For $15 I got a used one from a 96 grand am. I needed the mount and the aluminum bar that extends to the motor bracket. It has an extra rubber peice that keeps the center mount from over-extending. That mount now has 180,000+ miles of hard abuse and it's going strong.

Evan: My car will shut off the dome light (trunk light/etc too) after 15mins if you leave it on as well. Not many cars do that I've found. It also dims out the dome light after you get in the car instead of straight turning off. A nice feature.
 
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FlashlightOCD

Enlightened
Joined
Apr 7, 2003
Messages
931
Location
Central FL, USA
My favorite company is Honda. I really do not have much bad to say but I'll give it a shot:

1) The exterior design team has really gone down hill over the last couple generations of cars, they have become very dull and ordinary in appearance.

2) The A/C performance is less than spectacular for a hot climate like Central Fl.

3) It has the worst warranty in the industry, luckily the quality makes that relatively unimportant.

4) Maintenance/Service seems expensive, but I guess that is true on most any factory/dealer service.

5) Almost forgot this one: They stopped making the Prelude.
 

RA40

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 15, 2004
Messages
1,397
Location
So. Cal
Toyota has done well for us and my gripes are minor. Speaking of Japan produced models though. With the LS400:

Costs for some parts are excessive. I had a driver door key cylinder short and the replacement was $500.

Suspenion bushings that wear prematurely.

Starter is located under the intake plenum on the V-8...you have to remove the top part of the engine to replace it. The starter began to fail at 80K.

Beyond these maintenace issues, I'll hope to drive it to 200K+ miles. If pressed, I'd buy a LS430 but I'm not fond of the body styling. I'm waiting for the '07 LS which will have engine and wheelbase options.

While the Lexus division is not immune from defects, for me and fellow Lexus owners the remarks are generally positive about the cars. I am aware of other issues with models in the line-up. Compared to the BMW I had...Toyota is way ahead in the reliability, I'll take that anyday in a car I buy.

As they say, YMMV
 

357

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Jan 15, 2004
Messages
1,951
Location
usa
Overally, I really like my Toyota, but I do have some things of concern and or gripe about.

The main issue with Toyota that concerns me is the Engine Sludge problems--newer model cars have had their engines completely go do to oil sludge buildup. usually the cause is poor maintantainance. But if you keep the oil changed every 3k miles and follow the maintanance guidelines, this really isn't much of an issue.

My 2003 V6 Camry has good acceleration, but I really wish they went with even a little more power, like the 3.5 liter engine the Avalon has now rated at 260 hp. Toyota engines are less efficient than other Japanese engines in terms of horsepower, for example the Honda Accord engine 3.0 liter V6 gets 240 horsepower if the memrory serves me, and the Camry only gets 190 horsepower with their 3.0 liter engine.
 

Zelandeth

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 28, 2002
Messages
1,194
Location
Northeast Scotland (Aberdeenshire)
Skoda Estelle 130GL. 1988 model.

Gripes:

[] Clutch release bearing. These seem to fail in a highly erratic manner. Early ones required manual lubrication too. They're a simple part, costing all of £10...but you need to take the entire engine out to replace it!

[] The luggage compartment (under what is normally the hood) opens sideways - the wrong way! So if you're putting stuff in it you have to stand in the middle of the road! (Obviously, if you're in a country where they drive on the right, that's not an issue). It's also a pig to open if your hands are full of shopping.

[] Fuel guage. Simply put, it's too sensitive! The guage responds *instantly* to changes in fuel level. This means that it only really works as a fuel guage when stationary on level ground - otherwise it acts as an instentanious cornering/braking force meter instead! Keeps my mother entertained watching it though.

[] Dissolving exhaust system: It's all of two feet long from the manifold to the tailpipe - including the downpipe and silencer...therefore it gets insanely hot...is made of cheap pressed steel...and hence dissolves - rapidly.

[] Fabric braided rubber hoses (*groan*): Keep them dry, they're okay. Get them in a situation where they stay wet however, and they rot. Rapidly. Just like the bleed hose running between the radiator and the heater matrix does where it passes over the bulkhead, and the vacuum line to the brake servo that runs all the way from the inlet manifold at the back of the car, under the floor, to the servo at the front. First thing I did was replace every bit of that stuff I could find.

[] And the biggie - which is why there are so few of them left...LACK OF RUSTPROOFING from the factory. Need I say more?

...that's about it I think. Which for a nearly 20 year old classic ain't bad. Especially when it was nearly the cheapest car on the market when it was new 20 years ago! The engineering on the old Czech beast is first rate. Just a few components where the costs had been cut (hoses!) and lack of rustproofing against it.

...Is a real practical classic now though!

(Just a shame a gas tanker drove into it...)

Car in question has a page here: http://zelandeth.artamir.org/cars/estelle
 

JasonC8301

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 13, 2001
Messages
1,218
Location
NYC
2005 Mazda Tribute currently with ~10.5K on the odo (purchased 5 months ago with 12 miles.)

1. Its a Ford :)

2. The paint is nice and hard but has an orange peel effect to it. Let me show you instead. See how the reflection isn't perfect but more or less distorted?

9K2.JPG


I have seen a lot of this 'orange' peeled paint on BMW's, Mercedes Benz's, Toyota's, Honda's, and a few other late model cars.

3. After driving an Infiniti FX35, acceleration on my I-4 engine isn't so spectacular. I can still plant myself into my seat off the line but its an I-4 butt dragger as someone in CPF chat put it :) With rising gas prices, I am happy with the performance and gas mileage on my engine, 24-25 highway.

Other than that, no real complaints thus far. I hope to keep this car for a long, long time (and to make sure of it, taking it to the dealer every 3K to change my oil/maintaince and I bring my own Mobil 1 oil.)
 
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