3rd auto thread -best used car-value for money

Ok, used car threads have been posted here before and have been flooded with Honda and Toyota recommendations and I can't disagree but.....what is the best used car value "deal" for the money. For an example I'll give you my story.
Exactly a year ago, I was in the market for a used car. I couldn't afford a new car payment but wanted a used car that was reasonably new and reasonably cheap. I was looking for a low monthly payment but wanted something that I could hopefully drive relatively trouble free for a few years. I ended up buying a 2002 Saturn SL1 with 38k miles, the reasons being the following. Being September, the introduction of a new models, the two year old car suddenly became three years old. Consumer Reports gave the car above average reliability. It was the last year of the model before a new one was introduced (the ION which has mixed reliability ratings), so chances are a lot of bugs will have been worked out. I paid $7k for the car. I looked at equivalent year Honda Civics and Toyota Corollas and the prices were three and four grand higher. The argument might be made that being Japanese quality, the price difference might be worth it but my argument is that if I was going to pay 10, 11, 12k for a used Civic or Corolla, I might as well spend two or three grand more and get a new one. Yes, there are compromises with the vehicle (it's not the quietest) but in the first year of ownership, the Saturn has been trouble free. Plus I get in the low 30s for mixed city and highway driving.

So what do you consider not necessary the best used car but the best value for dollar used car?

what about the hyundai compacts? some of the new ones are getting good reliability ratings, as Korea has improved quality significantly the last few years.

we have a local dealer in ohio who sells a lot of preowned ford "executive" cars. they are 1 yr old and usually have about 22000 miles on them. most are taurus or mercury clones. i bought my wife one for $9995(same for all of them) in 2004 and it appears to be like new. it also is in warranty. this car rates highly in consumer reports. it is the ses model, comes with cd player, mags, etc.. it drives well and is not noisy. on the freeway with a/c i usually get 34-35 mpg. it is a little underpowered with its weight. look around and be picky. imho it is a buyers market.

Following the original train of thought, I've always felt that Mazda and Mitsubishi were undervalued in the used car market, in other words the prices are lower for what you get than they would be for more popular brands like Honda and Toyota.

Saab are a good used value for a nicer car. They have one of the worst depreciations in the industry in the first 3 years of ownership, and then it levels out after that. When we got ours is was 3 years old with under 30k miles on it, and we paid $18,500. It was $40,000 new. You do the math.

Also, because the theft rate on them is more or less 0, insurance is way lower than that of a Camry or similar car. We pay something like $6 more ever 6 months than we were paying on a 10 year old minivan.

It's fast, decently reliable, and safe -- Euro NCAP and Folksam say it's one of the safest cars around bar none.

2004-2005 Chevrolet Malibu, new body style. You can buy a 2005 LS V6 with 25k miles for under $14k. It comes with a V6, Keyless entry with remote start, full power pack including power seat, alloys, Driver, pass and side impact airbags, spoiler and so on. You can buy the 4cyl in the $12's but I submit the 6cly is the car to get for $1,500-$2,000 more. MPG on the 4cyl isn't much more and it's the typical noisy, underpowered, vibration I have seen on every brand of 4cyl I have ever driven. Like just about all other brands of 4cyl it has become better over the years but for whatever reason they all exhibit those flaws to some extent. Before you 4cyl guys jump on me let me temper my statement by saving the faults are relative. I am comparing a 4cyl to the same vehicle in a 6cyl when I make those accusations. I freely admit some 4cyl's are smooth, quiet and powerful. Actually I have driven one 4cyl that was fast, quiet and didn't vibrate, the Mitsu EVO. At $30k+ new and $20K+ used it's not your typical 4cyl.

If you look at more than just Consumer Reports (Many Toyota fans only review source because CR loves Toyota) you will find for Instance, JD Powers rates Malibu ahead of Camry in Initial quality (2004-2005) and 3 year quality (2003 model). Malibu gets better fuel economy, both City and Highway even with a bigger motor and has more horsepower, torque is the same. They rate it higher mechanically and higher in overall quality. It has a better crash test rating, and rates it higher in a few other less significant areas. The cherry at the top is when similarly equipped it cost about $3-$4 thousand less than the top selling car (Camry) in the country.

PS: I'm not going to debate which review source is the best. I have a feeling some of the Toyota fans will get a little bent about my Malibu over the Camry pick. Both CS and JD Powers test very differently. The biggest difference I see is CR buys and drives s few cars of each model for a period of time and JD powers surveys several, generally 5,000-7,000 owners of each model to get their results. I think you can get bias with each method. With CR you get about 5 people testing a product. The chance for a bias is high when each person represents 20% of the rating and their experience with each model is very limited. With JD Powers they could word the survey in such a way to tilt the results. I have never seen their survey so I don't know how it's done. Look at every survey and review you can find, there are a bunch. Ignore individual reviews (like mine here for example) because the chance of a single bad car or bias is far too high.

IMO, Second place for a used car would go to a VW Jetta diesel wagon. You get 50MPG on the highway as reported by actually users. That MPG beats most of the Hybrids and it cost less. Over the past few years they have started getting pricey on the used market, both sedans and wagons. Look long and hard and you can still find a cheap one. Downside, if you break it, it's expensive to fix.

I second the malibu suggestion, either new style or classic. These cars are a staple of the rental car fleets which means they are widely available and have horrible depreciation. You can pick up a 1 year old malibu with 12,000 miles for under $10,000. You'll get over 30mpg, cheap insurance, 2 years of factory warranty, and cheap service!

I agree the Classic is a super value at about $10k. I drove an 05 Classic about 500 miles in two days recently at speeds of 70++ and averaged just over 31 MPG. The downside is all 04-05 Classic's are 4cyl and their styling is dated. As far as bang for the buck in size, comfort, equipment, reliability and total cost of ownership it is arguably the best value on the road in a used car. As far as things like, cool, chick magnet, high performance goes, let me just say, I doubt it will be featured in one of the "Fast and Furious" movies.

The last two "new" cars I drove were both rentals, both V6 4 doors but there the similarities cease!

a 2003 Malibu was a much nicer to drive car than a 2004 Dodge (brain fart - smaller car than the Intrepid class). The Chevy had better torque, a better shifting tranny, better feeling brakes etc.

So I'll third a Malibu!

The real objective in this case is to find one that has finished it's major depreciation so you can drive it for two years and then (the important part) sell it for about what you paid. The trick is to find one with few enough miles that it remains dependable and yet is old enough that you don't pay an arm and a leg for it.

It's OK to spend $20,000 for a 3 year old car if it will sell in 2 more years for $18,000. Some Jaguars and other luxury cars are like that. By comparison, if you buy a 3 year old Malibu for $8,000 and sell it for 5,000 it cost you more than the Jag.

It's almost impossible to predict the future deprciation of cars, but looking at the past depreciation of some models will give you a clue. Keep in mind that there may be a drastic change in dependability and resale after a model change.

That said, a Toyota Camry with less than 40,000 on the ODO should do well for several years and still have much of it's value intact when you go to sell.

Daniel

What specific Jag or luxury car are you talking about? I love the concept but am not aware of any late model high-end cars that only depreciate $2k in 2 years. If it had a good reliability rating I think I would buy it.

I tried the Jag. 2003 S Model V6 with 30k miles compared to a 2001 S model V6 with 30k miles and the diff. was $5k. I then tried a 2003 Camry V6 LE with 30k miles and a 2001 Camry V6, LE with 30k miles and the diff is $5.5k. I tried the 2003 Malibu LS and the 2001 Malibu LS with 30k and the diff. was $2.3k. The Malibu was also $5k less than the Camry to start and even more diff. than the jag. I tried the 2003 Jetta TDI sedan with 30k miles and the 2001 Jetta TDI with 30k miles and the diff. was $2.9k. At 50MPG that might be a good choice.

If it's purely total cost of ownership then as you know the lower the initial cost plays as factor as well. I think the gap would widen when you average in repairs and maintenance between the Malibu and the Jag. With that said, I would enjoy driving the Jag. for 2 years far more than the Malibu.

I used 30k miles for all the vehicles I compared. When you factor in the extra miles for the two years of driving the depreciation / cost of ownership will be higher on all of them.

Data collected from kbb. I used trade-in value, good condition for all vehicles. I didn't add options other than Auto and V-6. If given a choice I chose the vehicle I thought was most common. ie: LE Camry, LS Malibu.

As a side note, kbb "trade-in" value, fair condition, has been the most accurate consumer level appraisal tool I have ever seen. NADA has not been as accurate, as least as far as I have seen. Like all consumer level books. kbb misses some by a wide margin just like all the rest but IMO it is the closest one out there. kbb "retail" on the other hand is generally way, way, high.