Cornkid
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: IE flaw puts Windows XP SP2 at risk
Which system is better.. MAC OS or Windows XP Proffessional??
-tom
Which system is better.. MAC OS or Windows XP Proffessional??
-tom
MAC OS or Windows XP Proffessional??
- Thread starter Cornkid
- Start date
Help Support Candle Power Flashlight Forum
This posting originally appeared in the "IE flaw puts Windows XP SP2 at risk" thread. It's a time bomb. Rather than jeopardize that thread, it's being set as a thread unto itself. Presently, I don't give it a lot of hope for survival. Our CPFers sometimes do surprise me. It's welcome to be discussed as long as it remains civil.
raggie33
*the raggedier*
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2003
- Messages
- 13,540
im a windows user but i almost recomended my sister a mac laptop .if we could of found her one cheaper we would of went with mac..im about to switch to linux soon as i find drivers for my modem
drizzle
Enlightened
Okay, I'll try to do my part to keep this civil. 
I'm a Windows user. I have interacted with Mac's for probably a grand total of 30 minutes. This has been due to the fact that every job I have had has been in environments where Windows was the platform of choice. I have nothing at all against Macs, I just don't have personal knowledge of them.
Having said that, I have extensive experience with Unix and find it very interesting that OS/X is built on that. I also like that it uses Objective-C and Cocoa, a framework that evolved from NextStep. I've had experience with Objective-C and NextStep in the past and liked them a lot.
I have been a Windows user for years but wouldn't ever want to be a Windows developer. I think I could be a productive and happy Mac developer if I found the right project.
I'm a Windows user. I have interacted with Mac's for probably a grand total of 30 minutes. This has been due to the fact that every job I have had has been in environments where Windows was the platform of choice. I have nothing at all against Macs, I just don't have personal knowledge of them.
Having said that, I have extensive experience with Unix and find it very interesting that OS/X is built on that. I also like that it uses Objective-C and Cocoa, a framework that evolved from NextStep. I've had experience with Objective-C and NextStep in the past and liked them a lot.
I have been a Windows user for years but wouldn't ever want to be a Windows developer. I think I could be a productive and happy Mac developer if I found the right project.
AlexGT
Flashlight Enthusiast
I'd say windows XP since almost 90% of all computers run it, but It's a love/hate relationship, since almost all virus, crapware, and malicious stuff is done to affect the Windos OS.
I really hope windows gets their head out of..... and really focus on improving their OS
Just my $.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000002
AlexGT
I really hope windows gets their head out of..... and really focus on improving their OS
Just my $.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000002
AlexGT
nerdgineer
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: IE flaw puts Windows XP SP2 at risk
The answer depends on lots of things, but to keep it simple, I prefer Macs for home use.
I use PC's & Windows at work, but I paid for the 5 Macs my family uses personally out of my own pocket. My son - who is a graduate engineering student - also picked a Mac (the 6th in the family) for himself when he had a choice.
The answer depends on lots of things, but to keep it simple, I prefer Macs for home use.
I use PC's & Windows at work, but I paid for the 5 Macs my family uses personally out of my own pocket. My son - who is a graduate engineering student - also picked a Mac (the 6th in the family) for himself when he had a choice.
gadget_lover
Flashaholic
Re: IE flaw puts Windows XP SP2 at risk
That's not a very good question. XP professional is meant to be used in an enviroment with tech support, MS servers to feed it and vanilla hardware from the big 3. It expects to be behind a firewall. You are expected to use MS products (latest versions). Under those conditions it works well. MS changes their paradigms frequently to promote software sales and to maintain incompatibility with competitors. WIndows has a large percentage of the desktop market. XP Professional has a much, much, much smaller share.
Mac OS is designed to be stand-alone or networked. It works well with a wide variety of software develpped for Mac as well as software developed for Unix systems. I hear it's pretty stable, as in it runs for weeks or months with no problems. It's fairly good at isolating the user from the underlying OS. Even MS writes programs for it.
You left out Linux altogether. I'd say it's a better OS simply because it was designed from the beginning to be multi user. It has a large percentage of the Geek desktop, and a very large part (most) of the web server and mail transport market. It's very, very stable. MS does not write programs for Linux; I can do everything I want on a linux workstation anyway, from graphics to music to home automation to web surfing.
In reality, the question has to be
"What's the best OS for task X?"
Daniel
Cornkid said:
That's not a very good question. XP professional is meant to be used in an enviroment with tech support, MS servers to feed it and vanilla hardware from the big 3. It expects to be behind a firewall. You are expected to use MS products (latest versions). Under those conditions it works well. MS changes their paradigms frequently to promote software sales and to maintain incompatibility with competitors. WIndows has a large percentage of the desktop market. XP Professional has a much, much, much smaller share.
Mac OS is designed to be stand-alone or networked. It works well with a wide variety of software develpped for Mac as well as software developed for Unix systems. I hear it's pretty stable, as in it runs for weeks or months with no problems. It's fairly good at isolating the user from the underlying OS. Even MS writes programs for it.
You left out Linux altogether. I'd say it's a better OS simply because it was designed from the beginning to be multi user. It has a large percentage of the Geek desktop, and a very large part (most) of the web server and mail transport market. It's very, very stable. MS does not write programs for Linux; I can do everything I want on a linux workstation anyway, from graphics to music to home automation to web surfing.
In reality, the question has to be
"What's the best OS for task X?"
Daniel
Back in the pre-PC days, one rule of thumb was "pick the software first, then the hardware."
Macs are nice machines if they will do what you need. If it's just email, web browsing and Office type applications they're great. Also fantastic for image/sound/video manipulation.
If you need to get the slightest bit off the center line, though, a Mac can be a pain. My buddy with an all-Mac house/office is constantly getting me to do stuff for him that can't be done on a Mac, just because the software isn't available (e.g. programming a radio, updating firmware in a camera, etc.) So, you have to put up with the lack of attention that comes with being 5% of the market.
Mac virus problems are generally unheard of, same for spyware.
Mac's aren't a good choice if you want to play a lot of games, though.
It's pretty easy to get help with a PC, but Mac guru's are harder to find (that 5% thing again). And, despite the hype about "never crashes, easy to fix" I've seen some seriously blowed-up Macs that needed heavy-duty Unix incantations to get them running again. When they break (which isn't often) they break bad.
I've had really good luck with XP, but I don't use Outlook or IE at all, ever. I switched to Firefox and Thunderbird and haven't seen a virus infection in a LONG time. I'm also pretty ruthless about system maintenance, including clearing junk out of the "run" key in the registry, disc defrags, backups, etc.
So I'd say seriously consider a Mac, unless you can't because of software or hardware compatibility issues, or external compatibility issues (e.g. school or work requires a PC).
Good luck!
Bob
Macs are nice machines if they will do what you need. If it's just email, web browsing and Office type applications they're great. Also fantastic for image/sound/video manipulation.
If you need to get the slightest bit off the center line, though, a Mac can be a pain. My buddy with an all-Mac house/office is constantly getting me to do stuff for him that can't be done on a Mac, just because the software isn't available (e.g. programming a radio, updating firmware in a camera, etc.) So, you have to put up with the lack of attention that comes with being 5% of the market.
Mac virus problems are generally unheard of, same for spyware.
Mac's aren't a good choice if you want to play a lot of games, though.
It's pretty easy to get help with a PC, but Mac guru's are harder to find (that 5% thing again). And, despite the hype about "never crashes, easy to fix" I've seen some seriously blowed-up Macs that needed heavy-duty Unix incantations to get them running again. When they break (which isn't often) they break bad.
I've had really good luck with XP, but I don't use Outlook or IE at all, ever. I switched to Firefox and Thunderbird and haven't seen a virus infection in a LONG time. I'm also pretty ruthless about system maintenance, including clearing junk out of the "run" key in the registry, disc defrags, backups, etc.
So I'd say seriously consider a Mac, unless you can't because of software or hardware compatibility issues, or external compatibility issues (e.g. school or work requires a PC).
Good luck!
Bob
It's a tough question. I obviously prefer the Mac, but I certainly think Windows has it's place. I think if you conducted a scientific survey, you'd find most devoted Mac fans have extensive experience with Windows, and have chosen Mac, whereas most Windows users don't know Mac at all. Most {Above grandma level} Mac users can be comfortable doing basic tasks on either platform, whereas Windows users feel lost at first on a Mac.
People are usually quick to point out things that are not possible on a Mac, but I find myself doing quite a few things that aren't possible on Windows.
I think it's stilly to ****er about which is better, because both have their uses, but I do wish people would give both a fair chance (Both Mac users Windows, and Windows users Mac) before bashing one or the other. I'm not talking about trying Mac out in the store, I'm talking about using one for a month and seriously putting some effort into learning what's possible. It's like LED vs incandescent, both have their uses.
I think Mac, especially when we get Intel based Macs, is the most flexible platform. You get the power to do lots of geeky Unix-y things without having to spend a week updating, downloading, and patching things for something as mundane as a web browser update, and before much longer here I'll be able to quickly drop into Windows to do things that just can't be done very well under OS X, like putting maps on my Garmin GPS...
People are usually quick to point out things that are not possible on a Mac, but I find myself doing quite a few things that aren't possible on Windows.
I think it's stilly to ****er about which is better, because both have their uses, but I do wish people would give both a fair chance (Both Mac users Windows, and Windows users Mac) before bashing one or the other. I'm not talking about trying Mac out in the store, I'm talking about using one for a month and seriously putting some effort into learning what's possible. It's like LED vs incandescent, both have their uses.
I think Mac, especially when we get Intel based Macs, is the most flexible platform. You get the power to do lots of geeky Unix-y things without having to spend a week updating, downloading, and patching things for something as mundane as a web browser update, and before much longer here I'll be able to quickly drop into Windows to do things that just can't be done very well under OS X, like putting maps on my Garmin GPS...
moeman
Enlightened
Love my mac....
OS X.
chris
OS X.
chris
I'm really biased, and I don't pretend not to be. I am an audio engineer. I have used Windows 95, 98, NT 4, Win2K. Then I realized I didn't want to be a computer geek, I wanted to make music. As I watched everyone else making music with Macs, I was trying to figure out why I couldn't do the same on my PC.
I'm doing some freelance engineering for a guy that uses XP, it's very frustrating, it uses so many resources doing nothing, and sometimes glitches while playing audio. But it's not my system, I've tweaked it as much as I can. XP, is very difficult for me to tweak, but I gave up on PCs before it came out, so my exposure is limited.
One day I gave up and bought a used G4, haven't looked back since.
Oh, and by the way, I'm still using that G4, I can't afford a G5 yet. My G4 is 400 Mhz. I'm running OS 10.2.8. How many of you PC users out there are running a 400 Mhz PC? Will XP run on a 400 Mhz CPU?
I think Macs are more robust.
I'll stop ranting now. Thanks for listening.
I'm doing some freelance engineering for a guy that uses XP, it's very frustrating, it uses so many resources doing nothing, and sometimes glitches while playing audio. But it's not my system, I've tweaked it as much as I can. XP, is very difficult for me to tweak, but I gave up on PCs before it came out, so my exposure is limited.
One day I gave up and bought a used G4, haven't looked back since.
Oh, and by the way, I'm still using that G4, I can't afford a G5 yet. My G4 is 400 Mhz. I'm running OS 10.2.8. How many of you PC users out there are running a 400 Mhz PC? Will XP run on a 400 Mhz CPU?
I think Macs are more robust.
I'll stop ranting now. Thanks for listening.
Oh. You can buy Virtual PC and run Windows on a Mac, and if you have 2 monitors, you can run Windows on 1 and OS X on the other, I saw a system at an Apple store set up that way. But I don't know if you can operate hardware, like an audio device or anything like that on the windows side on top of OS X. But if you need Windows for applications, you can run both on a Mac.
James S
Flashlight Enthusiast
The 2 systems are similar enough that it can be annoying when you hit a difference if you're trying to learn one over the other. If you're at all interested in working with the mac and you're wiling to give it a little effort I think you'll be happy.
The software/hardware thing is often quoted as a problem, but this hasn't really been a big issue in years. With the exception of some of the more arcane video cards there isn't a single peripheral sold at best buy or circuit city that wont work just as well in your mac as in a PC.
Software is a little harder as you actually have to go look things up. There is a mac version, or a competing mac product for anything that the home user wants to do. Autocad abandoned the Mac a while back, but looks like they may be coming back and if you're a big 3D gamer then you probably wont be happy with a Mac either. Anybody else willing to redirect some of the effort they put into patching windows into learning the mac will not have any difficulties. I do everything on my mac from reading and writing ms office files to programming PIC chips. 2 of the better Mac software index sites where you can go to search for a Mac version or mac software to do something are at http://www.macupdate.com/ and http://www.versiontracker.com/ give them a try and see if there isn't something for the Mac that does what you need to do.
It will cost you some money to get your software though. Many companies that offer both a mac and a pc version, like adobe, normally have cross platform upgrade pricing, so call and ask them and it may be no more expensive than updating to the latest version anyway. For other things you may have to actually purchase software. Dont be afraid of "shareware" on the mac either. It has a long grand tradition and some of the best software out there is payed for via paypal or other such services.
I do own a copy of virtual PC to run windows on the Mac. It works very well but does have a speed hit, meaning that you wont want to play games through it but for that old accounting software that is discontinued that you still like to use to print your checks can be run that way no problem if you have to. I dont use VPC for much other than the wow factor when demoing it to people. I used to use it for testing PC software that I was contracted to write, but haven't had to take a windows programming job in years now, there is plenty of Mac work to support my flashlight habits
So if you decide to make the switch, it will likely cost you a few extra hundred bucks to update your software and a couple of weeks to get comfy and get it all tricked out. The latter isn't really that different than starting a new windows box and getting everything switched over though. And as far as the couple of hundred extra, you get what you pay for folks.
If you're interested in putting your own PC together and want the latest 3D games and you're not tired of spending so much time taking care of windows, then there is no reason for you to mess with it. Anybody else should at least consider it when it comes time to update your hardware anyway.
Gadget loved has it right when he says windows is built for the corporate environment where you have a full IT department and a corporate managed firewall. In those conditions it's the cheapest per-seat solution for getting your secretary on msWord and email. for anybody not operating in those conditions it really makes sense to find out something about the Mac.
The software/hardware thing is often quoted as a problem, but this hasn't really been a big issue in years. With the exception of some of the more arcane video cards there isn't a single peripheral sold at best buy or circuit city that wont work just as well in your mac as in a PC.
Software is a little harder as you actually have to go look things up. There is a mac version, or a competing mac product for anything that the home user wants to do. Autocad abandoned the Mac a while back, but looks like they may be coming back and if you're a big 3D gamer then you probably wont be happy with a Mac either. Anybody else willing to redirect some of the effort they put into patching windows into learning the mac will not have any difficulties. I do everything on my mac from reading and writing ms office files to programming PIC chips. 2 of the better Mac software index sites where you can go to search for a Mac version or mac software to do something are at http://www.macupdate.com/ and http://www.versiontracker.com/ give them a try and see if there isn't something for the Mac that does what you need to do.
It will cost you some money to get your software though. Many companies that offer both a mac and a pc version, like adobe, normally have cross platform upgrade pricing, so call and ask them and it may be no more expensive than updating to the latest version anyway. For other things you may have to actually purchase software. Dont be afraid of "shareware" on the mac either. It has a long grand tradition and some of the best software out there is payed for via paypal or other such services.
I do own a copy of virtual PC to run windows on the Mac. It works very well but does have a speed hit, meaning that you wont want to play games through it but for that old accounting software that is discontinued that you still like to use to print your checks can be run that way no problem if you have to. I dont use VPC for much other than the wow factor when demoing it to people. I used to use it for testing PC software that I was contracted to write, but haven't had to take a windows programming job in years now, there is plenty of Mac work to support my flashlight habits
So if you decide to make the switch, it will likely cost you a few extra hundred bucks to update your software and a couple of weeks to get comfy and get it all tricked out. The latter isn't really that different than starting a new windows box and getting everything switched over though. And as far as the couple of hundred extra, you get what you pay for folks.
If you're interested in putting your own PC together and want the latest 3D games and you're not tired of spending so much time taking care of windows, then there is no reason for you to mess with it. Anybody else should at least consider it when it comes time to update your hardware anyway.
Gadget loved has it right when he says windows is built for the corporate environment where you have a full IT department and a corporate managed firewall. In those conditions it's the cheapest per-seat solution for getting your secretary on msWord and email. for anybody not operating in those conditions it really makes sense to find out something about the Mac.
was_jlh
Enlightened
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2002
- Messages
- 751
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binky
Flashlight Enthusiast
I drink Apple Kool-Aid.
This must be the only board in the world that can keep answers civil over this particular question. It's the only one I've ever read that can, anyway.
I make my living supporting both PC's and Macs for small businesses.
I also do eCommerce development, such as subcontracting for Oracle consulting.
They're visually very similar, but in use the experiences are light years apart.
I'm not without an opinion, though. I much prefer the Mac.
I agree with many of the posts above, and think gadget_lover may be onto something with the tech support analysis hypothesis. There's also the thing about the way the designers have chosen to treat the user via the interface experience.
All I can say is that you should try both for a few days for real work or play and see what you think for your criteria. Mine includes happiness and productivity.
This must be the only board in the world that can keep answers civil over this particular question. It's the only one I've ever read that can, anyway.
I make my living supporting both PC's and Macs for small businesses.
I also do eCommerce development, such as subcontracting for Oracle consulting.
They're visually very similar, but in use the experiences are light years apart.
I'm not without an opinion, though. I much prefer the Mac.
I agree with many of the posts above, and think gadget_lover may be onto something with the tech support analysis hypothesis. There's also the thing about the way the designers have chosen to treat the user via the interface experience.
All I can say is that you should try both for a few days for real work or play and see what you think for your criteria. Mine includes happiness and productivity.
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senecaripple
Flashlight Enthusiast
mac, you'll never have to worry abt viruses, worms, trojan horses. and if you get applecare with your apple they will stand by their computers with english speaking american technicians you can understand! i hear the problems people have with their dells and the techies they deal with. some of them are rather nasty! i've dealt with some of them!
LEDninja
Flashlight Enthusiast
As a long time Mac user (I still have an original System/MacWrite/MacPaint 400K floppy from 1984) I am quite disappointed with the way Apple has been going.
When I upgraded from OS 8 to OS 9 the bulk of my software refused to work properly if at all. I was so terrified nothing would work that I left the OS X discs in the box ($200 wasted). I was going to buy an additional Mac dedicated to OS X but did not because:
1) There is no software
2) The Macs I can afford do not have the hardware I want (DVD burner)
3) There is no upgrade path unless one is a billionaire and can afford the top of the line towers. Even then the hardware upgrades availanle are limited..
I have a problem switching to Windows as I have a lot of movie files (>40GB) saved in Mac quicktime format plus most of my pictures are in PICT2 format. I will have to spend a good part of a year doing conversions.
A Mac might be a good choice if you do not need much more than the programs Apple supplies + Office + Photoshop and you are unlikely to upgrade the computer in it's lifetime.
Be aware Macs are not very compatible with the outside world. Downloaded videos and screensavers may not play.
Check to make sure Mac versions of tax software is still sold in your country.
IIRC Apple dropped the spreadsheet from iWORKS, so the $500 for Office is a must.
And Apple can not figure out why it's market share keeps dropping!!!
When I upgraded from OS 8 to OS 9 the bulk of my software refused to work properly if at all. I was so terrified nothing would work that I left the OS X discs in the box ($200 wasted). I was going to buy an additional Mac dedicated to OS X but did not because:
1) There is no software
2) The Macs I can afford do not have the hardware I want (DVD burner)
3) There is no upgrade path unless one is a billionaire and can afford the top of the line towers. Even then the hardware upgrades availanle are limited..
I have a problem switching to Windows as I have a lot of movie files (>40GB) saved in Mac quicktime format plus most of my pictures are in PICT2 format. I will have to spend a good part of a year doing conversions.
A Mac might be a good choice if you do not need much more than the programs Apple supplies + Office + Photoshop and you are unlikely to upgrade the computer in it's lifetime.
Be aware Macs are not very compatible with the outside world. Downloaded videos and screensavers may not play.
Check to make sure Mac versions of tax software is still sold in your country.
IIRC Apple dropped the spreadsheet from iWORKS, so the $500 for Office is a must.
And Apple can not figure out why it's market share keeps dropping!!!
James S
Flashlight Enthusiast
There is always somebody with a 6 year old story of woe with the MacOS that feels it is somehow applicable to the modern operating system and hardware The news flash is that there is very little difference in price anymore, nor in software or hardware availability either.
The difference is in the usability of the OS for those that care to take the time to fine it out. He wouldn't have asked the question if he wasn't curious.
I think we've covered that pretty good. If you want more stories of woe I'll tell you my 6 year old windows migration stories which are equally bad
If you dont care to experiment that is fine, I dont mind, really I dont But the hardware and software that he'd be getting today would be new and nearly identical in price and speed to the windows counter parts. The differences now are not in price or availability, but in how you go about doing things in the OS. It's different in what I consider to be good ways.
You will always be able to find a stripped down windows box cheaper. You can buy the parts and put them together and probably shave $200 or so off the price of a new mac-mini for similar specs. And if this is something you're up for doing then more power to you! If it were me I'd run Linux on it and not windows though Oh wait, I have one just like that under my desk right now running linux as I'm start to do cross platform development for linux and MacOS now. That is exciting stuff...
You can usually find pirate versions of windows software easier than pirate versions of Mac software too. If you want to upgrade to the next MacOS version 18 months from when you buy your machine,you're going to have to pay for the upgrade and not just download it and steal it. You're going to have to pay for Office if you need it and not just steal it. This is a big deal actually as a not insignificant percentage of people I talk to budget nothing for software in their computer decisions because they can steal anything for windows they want!
Oh, and I'm typing this on my mac powerbook sitting in a barnes & nobel using their wireless internet connection. I'm not locked out of anything by my choice to use a mac. I really have given up telling people what to do, all i do is share my experiences which as a cross platform developer who is always called upon to support his parents and friends machines covers most versions of windows and MacOS pretty well.
If you're curious enough to take the time to give it a try, you wont be unhappy with the decision.
This is all pretty general stuff, if I can answer specific application or OS questions, please post them and I will. There is a pretty large population of Mac users here on CPF, i'm sure we can figure out anything you'd like to know.
The news flash is that there is very little difference in price anymore, nor in software or hardware availability either.The difference is in the usability of the OS for those that care to take the time to fine it out. He wouldn't have asked the question if he wasn't curious.
I think we've covered that pretty good. If you want more stories of woe I'll tell you my 6 year old windows migration stories which are equally bad
If you dont care to experiment that is fine, I dont mind, really I dont
But the hardware and software that he'd be getting today would be new and nearly identical in price and speed to the windows counter parts. The differences now are not in price or availability, but in how you go about doing things in the OS. It's different in what I consider to be good ways.You will always be able to find a stripped down windows box cheaper. You can buy the parts and put them together and probably shave $200 or so off the price of a new mac-mini for similar specs. And if this is something you're up for doing then more power to you! If it were me I'd run Linux on it and not windows though
Oh wait, I have one just like that under my desk right now running linux as I'm start to do cross platform development for linux and MacOS now. That is exciting stuff...You can usually find pirate versions of windows software easier than pirate versions of Mac software too. If you want to upgrade to the next MacOS version 18 months from when you buy your machine,you're going to have to pay for the upgrade and not just download it and steal it. You're going to have to pay for Office if you need it and not just steal it. This is a big deal actually as a not insignificant percentage of people I talk to budget nothing for software in their computer decisions because they can steal anything for windows they want!
Oh, and I'm typing this on my mac powerbook sitting in a barnes & nobel using their wireless internet connection. I'm not locked out of anything by my choice to use a mac. I really have given up telling people what to do, all i do is share my experiences which as a cross platform developer who is always called upon to support his parents and friends machines covers most versions of windows and MacOS pretty well.
If you're curious enough to take the time to give it a try, you wont be unhappy with the decision.
This is all pretty general stuff, if I can answer specific application or OS questions, please post them and I will. There is a pretty large population of Mac users here on CPF, i'm sure we can figure out anything you'd like to know.
