Need Backpack help

this is kinda complex.
i often "daypack" hike, and camp, and wanted to attempt hauling my whole campsite with me, so i went and bought a external frame backpack, tried it and it sucked.
traded up ($$$) to a internal frame, and it sucks.
and here is why, see if you can follow this, with the pics.


this is how your average backpacks weight center is.
the RED dot is where the weight from the pack is distributed to the hip belt.
see how the twist occurs on the hip belt? this is a total disaster for me now, having no real butt, and it diging in on my hipbone in the front.
both internal and external packs (Nowdays) have the hipbelt supported in the back, with some trash that doesnt fix the issue dangling off them to try and alter the situation.

when you bend and flex, the pivot location is also incorrect for a human.

to me the design is completly stupid, but ONLY because i had an external frame that was similar to that machine that SirGourney Weaver climbs into to kill the aliens


(again) the RED dot is where the weight from the pack is distributed to the hip belt. it had a metal pivot in the hip belt, that was held by the fabric.
you climbed in , and hooked yourself up

see how the lower part of the external frame went to the central pivot location of the hip belt, distributing the weight to the center of the hip belt, and the actual location of the hip bone, and the pivot location for the human.

while this adds a more shoulder weight, and slight back stress, keeping the pack from faltering back, i think you can see how it makes the hip belt and frame a perfect support system, for upright walking humans , discluding the hunchback i am becomming with this new stuff.

i had an old one of these (old school) and i was hauling about 60+ lbs of video stuff with it , without a problem.
now i want to haul about 34 lbs of camping gear, and i am old and weak compared to them other days.
but i am seeing the real problem as the STUPID design of the packs that are being sold, if i could find a pack with the far bent in frame, and the hip belt pivot system, i think i could pull it off, without tearing up my midsection.

Does anybody know of a company that makes a style where the frame support base basically wraps around the person, instead of being behind them?

i figure mabey they changed it, because they would lose market shares when some 45 inch waste person wont fit in between the staves. but since when do fat americans try backpacking. so they can make expandable one for them burly people.

the other strange thing, is i probably purchaced it for about 39$ because it was the cheapest one at the time that would hold that weight. and now i cant find anything like it , even though they get 390$ for the darn things.

the one i have has 8 ways to adjust it, yet none of them address this basic flaw.

Hey there VidPro, Greetings!

I don't know too much about backpacks, but have you tried looking at Ospreys? When I was in the market for one, I checked out the Ospreys and thought that these are the best ones made in my inexperienced opinion for the outdoor use. You can check them out at:

http://www.ospreypacks.com

Around here, I found them at Western Mountaineering on the El Camino in Santa Clara [2344], and in San Francisco Triple Aught Design http://www.tadgear.com

Sorry couldn't be of more help to you here. . .Hope you find what you're looking for!

Enjoy!

There are 2 different things here...

1. The way the hip belt works: Having a frame element closer to the hip bone will eliminate the tilt in the belt which may or may not help the way it transfers load to your hips. My old Kelty external frame pack has a nice wide belt, but it twists just like in your diagram. The bottom of the pack has a piece of pad or mesh that pushes against the lower back. I don't recall if it pushes against my butt or not. I've carried it a long way at 50 pounds or more weight and never had a problem with sore hips.

2. Any backpack with weight located behind you will give you the hunchback treatment. If you add to both of your diagrams the location of the load in the backpack, you'll see that is located behind the point where the load is transferred to the body, and thus tries to pull you over backwards. Your body must lean forward to counteract this. (Basic engineering fore analysis will show this.) Experienced backpackers know that you keep the weight as close to your back as possible, and it also helps to have the weight located higher in the pack. Look back at your diagrams and you can see how it helps by getting the weight closer to your back. Consider that wearing the pack you have to lean forwards slightly and you can see that it also helps to have the weight located higher because as you lean forwards the weight gets closer to the center of your body.

King of the big loads is Dana Designs Terraplane!

This is what I took for a two week backpacking trip at philmont this summer.

normally I would go ultra-light, but at philmont no way to avoid carrying heavy commutiny gear and heavy packaged foods for one week before resupply.

my pack weight was aprox. 22lbs including tent, sleeping bag, thermarest, goretex etc. after food and water 48lbs.

one day we had a dry camp and picked a weeks worth of food. I carried triple water load that day, safety factor for scouts. then we proceeded to climb the steepest mountain on the trip to 13,000ft. had snow on peak. Pack weight was close to 60lbs on that climb.

Terraplane performed like champ! would recommend for large loads. main drawback is price of $450. I shopped hard and found last year's model for $300.

oh gee only 450$ well isnt that nice
how about i add a cross bar to a 45$ pack and we call it even

actually those are 5 star rated packs, along with the ofsprey.
i just need to find ones that fit a 2 star rated body

so far from what i understand the jansport D-series , had some swing out support (like swing out horizontal shelf brackets) that sent some of the weight to the center of the hip belt. but the replacement model is a hunk of cheap china . . . i mean it doesnt have all the features , or the weight , which is a good thing.

and i have looked at 118 (gosh darn) packs online , and the pictures all dont show how much horizonatal support is derived to get the hip belt to be handling a balanced load.

its driving me nuts. i actually found the best info, at a "Historical" look at backpacks and when they went from FUNCTION to "Style" uggg, like i want to haul style around .

thanks for the info. if anyone finds one of these rotting in thier attic from the 1970s be sure to PM me with pictures.

This may be a stupid question, but are you sure you're fitting the backpack correctly? On an internal frame, are you cincing down the hip-hugger straps to pull the backpack tight against the hipbelt? and are you adjusting the loadlifter to bring the load closer to your back?


For really heavy loads, I still like my external frame Jansport from about 30 years ago. It easily held a 45-50 lb load (I didn't fare so well carrying the backpack ) A lot of external frames have metal "stiffeners" that fold out from the frame, keeping the hip belt at a 90 degree angle to the frame, to prevent the hipbelt from sagging. On mine, I actually have two huge "hoops" of metal on each side, almost like a mini-frame, that rest directly on my hip. Also, I've seen some backpacks that do exactly as your second pictures suggest, angling the frame inward torwards the center of the hip.

Here's a picture of what I was talking about

http://cgi.ebay.com/Large-Jansport-...ryZ36110QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

If Arc Teryx and Dana Designs are out of your price range, check out Outdoor products or High Sierra. They're decent packs for about $70. For a little more you can get an external frame Jansport. I'm looking at getting a new internal frame pack, but they seem a little more fussy than the externals when fitting to your back.

Edit: Looks like you already found out what I was talking about when I was typing.

Also, I actually have about 5 or 6 external frame packs sitting in my closet, but only one of them (the jansport) has that frame. That's the one I use most, even though the pack alone weighs about 8 lbs.

Aren't there two tensioning straps on the hipbelt to rectify this?

geesh your amazing.
i searched e-bay, i am on the backpackers forum, and they are telling me that i have a real neat design, but it will never work. i keep trying to tell them it aint my design it EXISTed.

and now you show me a picture of it .
at an e-bay auction (where i buy stuff often)

that isnt the EXACT same design as the old thing i had, but that uses the same logical principals. and that was the point of my search.

i also found a internal pack locally that the foam of the hip belt does offer a BIT of horizontal lift, to keep the scew lower, its a very stiff belt.
and the belt is tapered in at the top in its round (like a upside down funnel) which angles it across the top of my hips, i am not sure how that would work, but it felt ok for testing.

i really have to walk 5 miles with 30Lbs in a pack before i can determine its suitability

InTheDark said:

This may be a stupid question, but are you sure you're fitting the backpack correctly? On an internal frame, are you cincing down the hip-hugger straps to pull the backpack tight against the hipbelt? and are you adjusting the loadlifter to bring the load closer to your back?

Click to expand...

yes i got the adjustments all covered, the hip hugger ones are totally useless though, as the sleeping bag i have makes that section there totally full. and those straps on the hip dont do anything to actually transfer the weight foreward on the hip belt.

and i transfer 10lbs approx to the shoulders, because i am used to daypack of that weight, so it doesnt bother me to have shoulder weight back stress.

InTheDark said:

Here's a picture of what I was talking about

http://cgi.ebay.com/Large-Jansport-...ryZ36110QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Click to expand...

ok now assume for a moment here that this is the design i am looking for , even though it was simpler than that, but the same centering principal of the main weight.
what could i buy now NEW , that would work exactally the same?

because the new jansport external frame stuff i saw (tested) were all flat back, and VERY similar to internal frame packs, except the mesh that keeps the HEAT off my back, and the extra inbalance of the weight being back further.

You might want to try some online discount retailers like www.campmor.com or www.sierratradingpost.com, sometimes they have older models on sale. If you plan on doing a lot of backpacking, I would recommend getting a good quality used backpack, over a cheaper brand new backpack. A backpack will last a lifetime, it never really gets too worn out to use. things like hipbelts and shoulder straps can be replaced if the padding is flat and you'll have a like new backpack. If you buy a cheap one, you can't change out the bad zippers, weak stitching, and marginal design.

I could have sworn I'd seen a design exactly as you describe, but don't remember what company made it. I thought it was Kelty, but I couldn't find it on their site.

VidPro said:

yes i got the adjustments all covered, the hip hugger ones are totally useless though, as the sleeping bag i have makes that section there totally full. and those straps on the hip dont do anything to actually transfer the weight foreward on the hip belt.

and i transfer 10lbs approx to the shoulders, because i am used to daypack of that weight, so it doesnt bother me to have shoulder weight back stress.

Click to expand...

It's sounds like something isn't right, even with the lower compartment stuffed, the hip huggers should still pull the weight tight against your back. On some designs, it's actually supposed to flex the bottom of the frame forward, bringing the pivot point of the hipbelt closer to where you want it.

Where are you going to try on backpacks? I'd suggest going to a good gear store and talking with a knowledgeable salesmen. REI usually has at least one salesperson that can help, at least the ones in my area. They also have sandbags you can use to fill up the backpack to simulate a full backpack.

the thing that is different is ME i have a straight down back, not as much of that spine sunken in , and no real buttox. fat rolls up on my lower back.
so although i have the slight curving that an internal pack can ride in, there isnt a shelf for the pack like on some other humans. it just slides down much easier on me.
and i dont want to increase the belt pressure , because that is mean to my poor system. my skin is also sensitive, so tearing it up is more noticable

i got Computer lumbar chair syndrome, aka compubutt

i saw REI, excelent store. but they have the same packs here locally, for hundreds of dollers less. on average REI was 30% more, with a 15% discount. like safeway charge double put it on sale.
and i am such a cheapskate, and a modder, that i am likely to try and attempt to create my OWN custom fitted weight distribution stave, from an already functional but cheap pack.