What's the ideal light for urban search and rescue?

I am curious as to what you guys think here. THe mission is urban search and rescue. Could be a scenario where everything in the world is normal but your child / dog didnt come home from playing on time and its dark out. THe ideal light is going to have to be....

(1) Bright
(2) Good Runtime
(3) Durable
(4) Easy to haul over distances


LED's are interstesting because no worries about bulb breakage....Surefure M3 seems like a strong generalist thats light enough... m6 probably lacks the runtime and puts off too much heat to carry for a reasonable length of time (3 hours??) ... Gladius does a lot of things but for pure throw I dont think 80 lumens does it.

I would think you would want closer to 180-220 lumens.... I am a novice at this.

What do you think you would reach for?

:thanks: :thanks:

Despite all of the fancy, high-end lights out there, I might go for a basic Vector spotlight from Target or Wal-mart. Hugh amount of light, rechargable, and costs only $15 (I've got 'em on sale for under $10). I keep one in the car, and 2 in the house. Don't know about runtime, but at that price you can buy more than one so one is always ready to go. But also its an incan and not a LED, which may be a deal breaker for you.

best regards

I'd take these lights and other search & resque gear.

1. Surefire M6 with M6R pack + spare pack
2. Barbolight with 2+ hour, 200+ lumens + spare 3x C nmh
3. Surefire U2 with 4 spare 18650's
4. niterider storm HID headlamp with 4 hour burntime & spare pack.

What is an m6r pack???


:thanks: :thanks:

a rechargeable battery pack for the SureFire M6 flashlight. There's a thread running right now for a second run of these. I believe "js" makes them, IIRC.

When I want serious light, I don't putz around with little torches.

My first option is a Lumilite "Z-Lite" spotlight. The Reflector dwarfs any of the mag-lite type flashlights. I use 6v alkaline lantern batteries and upgrade the bulb to xenon (from Radio Shack). It has a comfortable handle and has integral stand to allow it to be setup in multiple positions when stationary. If size and weight are a concern they have a D battery version that is also superb.

It is a great combo of low cost, lots of light, and decent run-time. You should be able to find these in any decent hardware dept or store.

I have 2 Z-lites always at hand in my house. They have been put to the test on several occasions with Neighborhood Blockwatch concerns. On the off chance that I may need to "thump" somebody, then my D-cell maglite is the first option. The maglite has also been upgraded with a xenon bulb.

Good luck, TR

As mentioned in other threads, if you are doing any sort of work like this on a regular basis you WILL want rechargable units or the cost of batts will start eating you up. Also if you are doing SAR you will want at least two lights on you at all time (one big mother and a smaller backup).

Lights I'd consider for this sort of thing...
-Streamlight Vulcan (Great light with terrific runtime and powerful beam- but heavy)
-MagCharger (But then again I have the bias of using one for years -back when it was the ONLY good option)
-Streamlight Ultrastinger

Non-Rechargable/Backup light(s):
-Surefire L2 (Nice low beam w/long runtime and serious wall o' light on high)
-Gerber LX 3.0 (good throw and spill, runs on AA batts)

I'm sure you've noticed that my Primary light choices are both A) older models and b) incandescents. I have reasons for those choices.

Firstly, on any SAR operation you want tools with a proven track record. You'll have enough on your mind without factoring in the behavior of new equipment. The stuff I mention has a record of reliability and consistant behavior under some pretty shitty conditions and it won't break the bank.

Secondly is the frightening fact that a successful SAR operation can often hinge on spotting one tiny bit of cloth or a shadow that is out of place. You need as much "normal" contrast and color recognition as you can possibly get. In those situations you don't want create the additional burden of forcing your brain to adapt to the light spectrum of LED lights, it's better to give your eyes and brain what they are used to seeing which is warmer, yellower light (that also has the advantage of punching through fog, mist, etc.)

LED lights are best as secondary carry lights. The sort of stuff you would use for closer work (say inside or after you find someone and need to examine them closely where a "blaster" would be too much light).

I second what Zesprectre said!

A combo is the best way to go!

Get a good rechargeable light as your main flashlight, and a 2XCR123 with spares as backup. Leave a spare pack and the battery charger in your car you are all set.

I'd go with any of the rechargeables lights from Streamlight, especially the bigger Stingers. For the the back-up, i'd get a bright LED powered by CR123as, an INOVAT3 we'll suit you nicely. A SL Scorpion as spare light is a good and cheap alternative if are on a budget. These options won't break your bank as it woud if you chose only Surefires, and you'll still have great, efficient tools to get the job done.

I would want something waterproof and tough as nails for a primary "walking around" light. It should run the whole night on one set of batts. Flood is better than throw here.

Of the lights I own, I'd grab my Princeton Tec XL for primary use.

You also would have a use for a throw monster that you can use to check on dark corners in the distance, etc. Runtime can be short for this one, since it would be used in brief bursts. Any light that is small enough to be handy, yet has a bright spot beam would be good.

I would use something like a SureFire 9P for this role.

Scott

Anyone here tried the Surefire L7 LED rechargeable?

SF says it pumps out 75 lumens, so I wonder if it might have enough juice, along with a second (back-up) battery, for outside/urban work?

Looks kinda pricey, but is it more reliable and long-running than a Mag-charger or Stinger incan?

SInce it seems like everyone is leaning toward the big lights...What are the big brand names on the spotlights? How is the cyclops brand??

I told ya guy, Streamlight Vulcan. Used nationwide by firefighters and rescue crews.
Big controls so you can operate it with gloves/protective gear on.
3-8 hour runtime (depending on brightness level)
Waterproof and hazardous enviroment rated.
They usually run about $85-90 dollars.
This is serious, real world tested, SAR gear.

streamlight vulcan looks like a good light. $50 at product wizard. curious at what type of lumens it puts out compared to surefire M6 hola.

lights I listed earlier is what I would pull from my current stash of lights. or if price is no object and unfortunately priced out of most SAR budgets.

hands free, Storm HID helmet mounted headlamp would light up the night for 8 hours with extra pack. M6/M6R puts out a 600 lumen wall of light with excellent throw. main advantage here is small size with huge amounts of light.

Surefire U2 with 4 extra 18650 will run 10+ hours w/100+ lumens. days on lower settings.

for real world budgets, I'd get something like the vulcan and an adjustable luxeon headlamp.

The light I carry the most for both firefighting and US&R work is the Pelican Super Saberlight. It takes C cell batteries (which you can get anywhere), is small, very durable and puts out a good beam. Speaking from experience (US&R deployments to the following: World Trade Center, 1996 Olympics and Worcester Cold Storage building fire) you want to stay away from high tech or recharageable lights. When you are under a rubble pile you want to be able to change batteries, not go looking for a charger, when your light dies. Anygood LED headlamp is also a must, not for actual rubble pile work but they are great for finding your way around at night. Don't get me wrong here, I own alot of really expensive flashlights (probably too many, if that is possible) but when it comes down to something that I can depend on and don't mind breaking (Pelican will replace a broken Saberlight for free) then simple is better. In fact during the WTC, I took two Saberlights on the deployment and ended up giving one to some FDNY guys I was working on the pile with.

USARSHOE said:

The light I carry the most for both firefighting and US&R work is the Pelican Super Saberlight. It takes C cell batteries (which you can get anywhere), is small, very durable and puts out a good beam. Speaking from experience (US&R deployments to the following: World Trade Center, 1996 Olympics and Worcester Cold Storage building fire) you want to stay away from high tech or recharageable lights. When you are under a rubble pile you want to be able to change batteries, not go looking for a charger, when your light dies. Anygood LED headlamp is also a must, not for actual rubble pile work but they are great for finding your way around at night. Don't get me wrong here, I own alot of really expensive flashlights (probably too many, if that is possible) but when it comes down to something that I can depend on and don't mind breaking (Pelican will replace a broken Saberlight for free) then simple is better. In fact during the WTC, I took two Saberlights on the deployment and ended up giving one to some FDNY guys I was working on the pile with.

Click to expand...

That is a noble cause for putting the flashlights in good use! :thumbsup:
Though I have not yet owned one, from what I read and my short time playing with it, the streamlight 4AA lux I light seems to be a good back up too. Good regulation, nice throw, impact/water resistant and use AAs.

that super sabre light also looks great at $20

wonder what output compares to?

Another note about duty flashlights. When on duty as a fire captain I carry the following:

1) Inova X5 (on uniform belt).

2) Advance Lighting FD1 lantern (sealed lead acid battery, 4 hr runtime).

3) Pelican Super SabreLite (in flashlight holder on turnout coat).

4) UKE Mini Q4 Fire (mounted on helmet).

When doing US&R work I carry:

1) Pelican Super SabreLite (spare lamp assembly and batteries in work pack).

2) UKE Mini Q4 Fire (mounted on helmet, spare batteries in pack).

3) Handfull of high intensity glow sticks in cargo pockets on pants (good for dropping into holes that you can't fit into to check).

A final note on rechargeable lights. My fire departments has mounted Streamlight Light Boxes at all of the riding positions on our apparatus for personnel to use. I have seen these lights come out of the charger and fail within 15 of runtime at fires. I personally feel that have a old fashion alkaline flashlinght as a minimum for a backup light is the way to go.

Usarshoe,

The pelican supersabrelight is a very tight (hot) beam with some spill. I carry one with me when I am boating. Output with the tight beam means that you need to keep the light moving continously to search. A brighter light with wider beam (e.g. SF 6P, G2, SL TL-2, NF, scorpion, etc...) will permit a more graceful searching allowing your eyes to move within the wider beam, rather than your light moving (a small spot of light) and your eyes staying focused within the tight beam, which is very tiring as can permit you to miss important contrasts compared to a wider beam.

Techmedic,

I will agree that the Sabrelite has very little spill, but in a firefighting environment that is what you want. Any excess spill from a light will cause too much bounce back from the smoke. A small, narrow beam is what works best inside a burning building, at least a well as any light works. As for US&R work, a great deal of time you are below grade or checking voids in rubble piles so the more reach the better. When I was doing wilderness SAR work I did want a light with more spill for better area coverage. Another good feature of the Sabrelite is that all you have to do is twist the head and the light comes on, no looking for a switch in a hostile environment when your primary lights craps out.

Just my two cents.

USARSHOE,


The reason those lights fail so fast is poor use habits, (not the fault of the people using them, but of the people deploying them like that).

All NiCad/NiMH rechargeables, need to be used. NiCads develop memory rather fast, and if they get used for 15 minutes and then shut off will fairly rapidly develop into a 15 minute light. NiMH cells don't like constant charging and will be damaged in that kind of use.

Those problems can be alleviated if the people using and deploying them are taught how to properly use them and plan for their use.

But that doesn't solve your problem with them unless you can educate the people in the correct use patterns.

SAR people often may not use a light for months, then have to deploy them rapidly. Alkalines are a miserable choice under those circumstances, as I can't even count how many lights I've had to junk or spend hours driving out cells that have failed, and I've had them all fail, Duracells, Energizers, you name it. Sure, those companies will replace the cells and even flashlights if you send it in, but I still have to buy a light to use in the interim.

NiMH and NiCad based lights are almost as bad, because they need to be used as I noted above.

GelCell and Lead Acid based lights are probably the best compromise, but even they require some maintenance and the light packages aren't exactly small!

So what would I use? Well how about an M6 Surefire with LOLA. An hours runtime on 6 disposable cells. With 250+ lumens of output, a great beam, and the option of a higher output bulb if I needed it. Not super cheap to run, but I'm assuming the department pays for cells. Not rechargeable, but the cells can sit on the shelf for 10 years and still function.

Any other light I would use would be similarly 123 based, so my backups would use them also.

I am not a believer that the light you MUST depend on should be rechargeable. Rechargeable lights should be everyday use lights, not emergency use lights because of the above problems with each.

If I was in that position, I want a light that functions, first time, every time! Rechargeables, with all their advantages for daily use, don't fit the bill for SAR missions in my view, at least not as the primary.

Bill