LED Color Rendering - Warm White Question

HarryN

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Some of you know that I am developing a 2 x CR2 side x side light, and am playing around with various options. Last night, I was comparing the beam of a TWOK + custom optics + 700ma setup to my "beater light", a sub $ 10 industrial 2 D Rayovac on fresh cells. Before you start saying "not in the same class in any way", while true, it is often valuable to learn from the beams of other lights.

I do not have a Lux meter at home, but my eyes (yes I know the danger of using them) tell me that the Lux III light was substantially brighter, larger hot spot, more lux, and certainly a more whitish beam.

I shone both lights on a test target - an artificial flower arrangement in our living room about 25 feet away. While the target was VERY well illuminated by the Lux III beam, and fankly, not particularly well illuminated by the 2 D light, I could "see" the flowers and leaves much more clearly with the incan. I know this topic has been discussed before with discussions about "throw", etc, but my sense is that this is not a "throw" issue at this distance.

My sense is that the difference primarily is in the spectrum available to reflect from the various parts of the target.

If that is correct, then I am wondering if I would actually obtain better ability to make a target "visible" if I instead used Warm White Lux Is overdriven to 700ma than a normal Lux III, even though the Lumens measurements are clearly lower ?

Any experience with the Warm Whites out there ?
 

NewBie

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HarryN said:
Some of you know that I am developing a 2 x CR2 side x side light, and am playing around with various options. Last night, I was comparing the beam of a TWOK + custom optics + 700ma setup to my "beater light", a sub $ 10 industrial 2 D Rayovac on fresh cells. Before you start saying "not in the same class in any way", while true, it is often valuable to learn from the beams of other lights.

I do not have a Lux meter at home, but my eyes (yes I know the danger of using them) tell me that the Lux III light was substantially brighter, larger hot spot, more lux, and certainly a more whitish beam.

I shone both lights on a test target - an artificial flower arrangement in our living room about 25 feet away. While the target was VERY well illuminated by the Lux III beam, and fankly, not particularly well illuminated by the 2 D light, I could "see" the flowers and leaves much more clearly with the incan. I know this topic has been discussed before with discussions about "throw", etc, but my sense is that this is not a "throw" issue at this distance.

My sense is that the difference primarily is in the spectrum available to reflect from the various parts of the target.

If that is correct, then I am wondering if I would actually obtain better ability to make a target "visible" if I instead used Warm White Lux Is overdriven to 700ma than a normal Lux III, even though the Lumens measurements are clearly lower ?

Any experience with the Warm Whites out there ?


It will depend alot on the target coloration.

Warm Whites are considerably less efficient.

Warm Whites do a much better job with warmer targets and quite a bit better when rendering red.

Consider where you are going to use it, in the city, as many do, or in the outdoors, which has a very different typical set of targets/areas.
 

HarryN

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Thanks Newbie - I am imagining at this point my target will be finding squirrels in a tree, or looking for the cat at night, but my wife will undoubtably want to see how it does on flowers.
 

Owen

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I have no experience with warm whites, but look at the Planckian chart.
Luxeon_Binning_Structure_on_CIE_diagram.png

For more detail, you want a bin that is the opposite tint of your target, or the primary colors in the environment you plan to use the light in.

HarryN said:
I am imagining at this point my target will be finding squirrels in a tree, or looking for the cat at night, but my wife will undoubtably want to see how it does on flowers.
I would go with something from the XO/YO/WA/YA range for the outdoors, and avoid warm tints like the plague, as they will tend to cancel out greens and yellows, giving minimum contrast.
Here are two beamshots I posted on another thread a couple of months ago.
This is my L4, probably a VO-very warm, yellow with a touch of red.

This is a TYOH@520mA with a 17mm IMS reflector-pretty neutral YO, with very little coloration(perhaps a slight tinge of blue, but no discernable green).

If you can't see the difference, then it probably doesn't matter what tint you go with:p
 

HarryN

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Thanks for the info guys, but I think I was not entirely clear with my question. I am NOT trying to compare the tint / bin of Lux IIIs, I am comparing the Lux III in general with an entirely different product - The Luxeon Warm White product (see products on their web page).

The data sheet shows that it was developed specifically to have a (visible) spectral distribution which imitates an 3300 K incan bulb. The practical effect is that they have traded total Lumens for broader spectrum coverage. Normally, I would not even consider this, but I cannot help but wonder if the lower Lumens numbers would be made up in making the end target object more visible with the broader spectrum.

If no one else has tried this yet, maybe I will give it a go just for fun.
 

James S

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I like the warm whites. I'm experimenting with them for my low voltage outdoor lighting project. Right now I'm planning to use warm whites for the path lights and luxIII's for the spots.

What feels strange about the warm whites is that they aren't bright enough to warrant the color. I"m not sure how to describe this effect ;) It's like they are the color of a slightly dimmed 60 watt bulb, but the brightness isn't that bright, so your brain will tell you something fishy about it...

If you like I can try to do some beamshots later on comparing that and a regular luxeon. I should probably wait till tonight and do it outside at some plants or something... Let me know if you're interested in seeing that.
 

HarryN

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Hi - That would be great if you have some actual usage / picture information. I guess I am particularly interested in trying to understand if it is easier to recognize a "targeted object" due to the enhanced color spectrum, or if the sheer brightness of a Lux III will dominate the situation.

I am toying with the idea of overdriving the warm white up to 700ma, so there likely would be a little blue shifting going on - hopefully they behave themselves and do not die quickly if the heat sink is adequate.

I can really see how a garden / grass area would look more "natural" with that setup. Is there enough deep blue in the warm whites to see purple / lavender objects ? These are my wife and daughter's favorite colors, so it would be nice to know.
 
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