Ok motorcyclists...need your help one more time

Ok...I found a local ad for a 1985 Nighthawk CB650 for sale for $199

Apparently was running last month, but now has a clang in the top end of the bike.

First off..me being a complete beginner as far as motorcycles go (used to have a scooter) would this bike be good for me to start out with? I know a lot of people have told me to get a 600 or more....

Secondly, is this bike worth $199? How much might I be looking at for repairs?

Anyone?

I had an '85 nighthawk 650. Bought it brand new as a leftover model in april of '86 for $2799. Fantastic bike and I rode the wheels off it for 6 years. But now you're talking about buying a 20 year old bike for a beginner and I would'nt recommend that because of all the problems that you might have with it. For $199 you just can't expect to get much more than a big bag of problems. That's my .02 anyway. For a beginner I would recommend spending between 1000 and 2000 and getting a decent later model say less than 10 years old bike.

Problem is, I don't have $1000-$2000 on a newer bike. I've seen the pictures...it looks pretty clean..no visible scratches, the seat isn't torn...it's only got 30,000 miles on it too...that's kinda low mileage for a 20 year old bike, no?

Incidentally, I'm doing a search on google for a replacement engine and not having much luck so far...is this a rare model or something?

its real hard to tell what the noise is without hearing it.
you say a clang but it doesnt fit with much that goes wrong.maybe a timing chain tensioner?that makes a rattle or slapping sound.
loud knocks are bad though.
it might be a cheap start to get your feet wet and your hands greasy.
if you can use common hand tools you might fix it yourself.

Getting parts for a 20 year old bike might be a problem. Then there's the fact that after 20 years you will probably have brittle seals and wires. Yes, wires. The plastic gets old and the insulation can crack off if it's bent just right. The seals might leak a bit and not show if the bike is cleaned real well before each showing.

I seem to recall the nighthawk series being popular for a fairly short time span, so it's not like you can get parts from a local junk-yard.

If you look around long enough you will find (especially going into winter) a fairly new bike for just a fraction of it's original price. Many people buy bikes in teh spring and are dis-illusined by the first rainfall.

Top end noises can be many things, including camshaft bearings, bent rods, bent valves, etc. Unless you like to rebuild motors, I'd stay away from that one.

Daniel

Unless you just want to practice your mechanic skills and spend lots of time and money, run - don't walk - away from that bargain.

Without actually seeing the bike, it would be hard to tell. I would suggest that if its possible, try to bring an expert mechanic with you and check out the bike. He will probably know whats the problem with it, and inform you beforehand how much you might spend to get it back to order. That price is indeed a steal if its in running condition. But then again alot of times, if somethings too good to be true, then it probably is. Btw a CB650 would be a good beginners bike, although it is a bit heavy as compared to todays newer bikes. It is a standard/naked, and I personally believe that they are the type of bikes that would suit the beginner best.

Chris

Well, I don't have a MC license yet, and I probably won't have one for awhile, and I do know how to turn wrenches. I was able to find a CB650 motor in England, but I'm sure it'll be expensive to ship.

Here's the thing...he said that it doesn't run as well as it used to...I would assume by that it still runs, but not up to par. I plan on removing the motor from the bike, and either finding a replacement motor, or paying to have it rebuilt, in the meantime, have the bike checked out from front to back for any other problems. He also mentioned that the bike has been rewired, so the wires aren't 20 years old like the rest of the bike.

During the middle of the month I tend to have a few extra hundred bucks laying around.

I definitely won't ride it until I know it's safe to ride.

LaserFreak said:

Here's the thing...he said that it doesn't run as well as it used to...I would assume by that it still runs, but not up to par. I plan on removing the motor from the bike, and either finding a replacement motor, or paying to have it rebuilt, in the meantime, have the bike checked out from front to back for any other problems.

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Call your local honda dealer and ask them what it will cost to replace the overhead cam. Make sure to ask for worst case. Around here that can cost as much as a used bike.

He also mentioned that the bike has been rewired, so the wires aren't 20 years old like the rest of the bike.

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Are you an optomist or a pessimist? The optomist says "Cool, the wiring should last another 20 years." The pessimist says "Now it may be non standard, so you can't use the wiring diagrams from the repair books. He may have done it himself, in which case it may be done wrong. Why did it have to be replaced, and what else was burned up with the old wiring?

Me? I'd be a pessimist and have a mechanic check it first.

Daniel

Ok...I misread what he wrote...it may not have been completely rewired. Here's exactly what he sent me:

"See my photos. I am the owner with clean title and 2006 registration due in about 33 days.
It's a 1985 with 38000 miles. I got it several months ago from a friend when it was broken (mostly electrical issues) and I fixed it. Then I damaged, evidentally, the top end of the engine by adding STP no smoke – seems to have inhibited oil circulation and therby caused an interior metal part to misalign/break. I don't know cost - but as for me, the repair of engine requires at least $80 of gaskets would preclude that course of action. Engine replacement is what I am looking at, personally. I somewhat "role the dice" on a used engine that's not much more $$ than those gaskets.
Viewing this weekend is good but you should probably make plans with me asap for Saturday as I might get a replacement engine on Sunday and fix it myself. Email me again if interested"

There is nothing in that e-mail to make you feel good. He's fixed some unknown electrical problem, and then added STP to it in an effort to fix another unknown problem. Now there's an un-defined broken part banging around. It could be ruining the cylinders, heads, valves, rods or all of the above.

I predidct that this will be nothing but trouble. It's just one step away from being what we used to call a "basket case". That's a bike thay you buy cheap, but 1/2 of it is delivered as parts in a basket. Basket cases are often still in baskets/boxes when they are resold.

BTW, There's several red flags there. $80 for gaskets is too much for him but a replacement engine is OK? Then there's the implied easy availability of a replacement engine even though you have not found one. On top of that, he's added presure to buy quickly by saying he'll fix it sunday.

I've owned around 20 motorcycles, and I've found that even swapping out the engine will take a lot of time for an amateur. I've also found that there are a lot of specialized tools needed to re-assemble 80's vintage Hondas. There are always work-arounds, but it's VERY easy to screw things up. I still remember getting a BSA 650 engine reinstalled, hoses and wiring connected only to spot a part that belonged in the transmission. Sigh!

Daniel

Ok...I suppose I'll forget about this one, then. Thanks for the advice.

If the tank, fenders, and seat are in good shape, you could probably sell them for more than $200. I used to wrench on Hondas, only worked on 2 Nighthawk 650s. They were good bikes, nothing fancy, and were a pretty good seller. There were three versions of the nighthawk series, the later ones were really slick. If my memory serves, the top ends did have some issues. They leaked oil aournd the head gaskets, and I believe they had some problems with soft splines on primary socket. The black on the motor flaked after awhile, the later models had black pipes and they flaked off pretty fast.

That is a lot of miles for any bike, especially one that old. If there is a problem in the top end, it will cost a lot of money to fix. Figure about 20-30 bucks an hour for mechanics labor plus parts. Problem is, if you fixed the top end, it would probably only be one thing out of many that need to done. All it takes is a bad starter to make you realize parts are very hard to find for those older bikes. Add tires and odds and ends and you can get to $1000 pretty fast.

Personally, I wouldn't buy that bike unless it really looked good and you were comfortable with it. If you keep looking, the CB Honda line is good place to start for low price bikes. Also the KZ Kawasakis and GS Suzukis from the mid 80s are good bikes and very cheap. They are all pretty close to each other: inline four, air cooled, some were shafts. I highly reccomend a shaft bike. Look for ANY rust in the tank, make sure all electronics work, and listen to the bike at throttle peak and idle. You want to hear if the carbs are synced up right. The carbs are the achilles heel of those bikes, if they are out of sync it is very difficult to find somebody to get them right. My father had a Suzuki GS1000G that he bought new in 1981, I know that guy that bought it and he still rides it with about 80,000 miles on it. I just recently sold my 1987 Honda Shadow VT1100C with 128,000 miles on it. If you take care of them, they will do the job for you. If you need any help, PM me and I will tell you what I know, which may be of value or not.

My first bike was a CB 550 four. Tons of fun but much slower than a 650.

Kevin Spacey rides (I think) an older KZ 650 in "Ordinary Decent Criminal". He babys it and rides pretty slow. He plays a thief in Ireland. In one seen where he is simply shop lifting, the store owner says, "That's a grand bike." Kinda made me miss the days when bench bikes were popular.

if it runs and passes the safety inspection, without added expenses, you can just ride it around the block and learn to ride using a cheapo bike. just take it to the local school parking lot and get a feel for riding. if you enjoy it then save up and spend a couple of ks. it hurts more when you take a spill on a $2,000 bike than on a $200. bike. and trust me you will take a spill or two while you are learning!

my 1980 cb750c still runs, knock on wood! bought it new then!