Big light that stands up on its end?

I was looking for a light to use for emergency illumination when the power is out. I got a 20 LED lantern (from amondotech). But while I was waiting for it to arrive, I found the Ice Storm article at flashlightreviews (http://www.flashlightreviews.com/features/storm.htm ) and he doesn't mention lanterns but suggests pointing broad beam LED flashlights at the ceiling. So I tried using my Streamlight 4AA with 7 LEDs and we liked the illumination from that better than the illumination from the 20 LED lantern! I wouldn't want it a whole lot dimmer than the Streamlight. (And I don't know how old the batteries are. The streamlight dims pretty quickly as you use it.)

For a protracted outage, the Streamlight would need a lot of batteries. And while it will stand on its end it's precarious. The above mentioned article suggests the Lightwave 3000 and Lightwave 4000 which seem a little pricey and also don't stand on their ends. These are fairly old models. Is there something better out there?

I checked the review sites and found the Lumaray lights, which at least can stand on their ends. But $120? And you don't even get regulation and multiple light levels? It's down to 50% light after 6 hours which is the same as the (manufacturer claimed) runtime of the Streamlight 4AA. It seems that back when the Lightwaves and my Streamlight came out, the flashlight reviewers weren't doing their own light output plots. (The Lightwave is supposed to go for 600 hours! Hard to believe.)

So here's the question I pose. What flashlights out there meet all or most of the requirements on this list:

1. Produces enough light in a broad beam to illuminate a room by pointing up at the ceiling. I figured you need 7 LEDs for this taking my streamlight as a benchmark, but maybe fewer brighter LEDs would work as long as the beam isn't too narrow.

2. Is stable standing on its end so it can illuminate the ceiling.

3. Has a long run time (which presumably means big batteries, C's or D's)

4. Uses standard batteries.

Anything out there like this?

Maybe you should rethink your options. Nowhere in your criteria does it mention form factor. The led lanterns are still kinda spotty for area light, IMHO. Try an Energizer folding fluorescent lantern. Very stable, portable, enormous runtimes on 4D cells of 20/40 hours using 1/2 tubes. For output, it will blow away your led lantern. Available most hardware stores, etc, for around $12. It's a bargain and a great power outtage light. Artifact free flood, and the tubes will last 1000+ hours. The newest models even have an amber led nightlight built in.

I had a fluorescent lantern. The bulb died. I couldn't find a replacement bulb anywhere (including online). And in any case, the bulbs cost as much as the lantern. I figured that these cheap fluorescent lanterns must be driving the flourescent tubes badly to kill the bulb so fast. I think the batteries outlasted the bulb. Maybe I was on the second set of batteries, but I don't think so. That is why I was looking at non-fluorescent options.

The run time of the LED lantern is about 20 hours at the brightest setting, so in that regard it competes well with the flourescent. I thought that an LED light source would be as bright as a fluorescent if other factors were equal. But I had been under the impression that LEDs were more efficient than flourescent lighting. I just looked around for some hard numbers and found that I was misinformed. http://www.marktechopto.com/engineering/white.cfm
However, these efficiency numbers may not apply when it comes to a battery powered fluorescent lantern, as the ballast plays a big role in determining fluorescent efficiency. Does anybody know for certain that the fluorescent lantern mentioned is a lot brighter than the 20 LED lantern I got from amondotech?

The reason the LED lantern was less satisfactory as a light source than the flashlight aimed at the ceiling is the uniformity of lighting and the shape of the beam--not total light output. The lantern beam didn't spill up or down and so it illuminated the whole room less well. And its light was harsher. It was hard to avoid looking directly at the lantern which was bright and painful to look at directly. It's been long enough since my fluorescent lantern died that I can't remember how it illuminated. Looking straight at fluorescent tubes is less painful than looking straight an an LED. But I think it was still less even light than I got by pointing the flashlight at the ceiling.

The Energizer fluoro I was mentioning uses standard, 4" straight tubes, easily obtained at any hardware store and most Walmarts. They are not proprietary like many Coleman's, etc. U shaped tubes. They even come in different light color temps, depending on your preference.

As for brightness, let's see. The leds in your lantern, not being the absolute most recent ones, are around 3 lumens apiece in output. That means your lantern is outputting 60 lumens at best. The Energizer will easily output far more than this. Looking at leds isn't fun, because, like an incan, you are looking at small light sources that need to be very bright (re: glare). Fluoros have a much, much, much larger surface area that gives off light, which is why they don't look as bright when looking directly at them. The larger surface area more than makes up for this. The folding part of the lantern will also allow you to tilt the tubes in most any direction; it's a clever design.

Get one of these lanterns and try it. The bulbs should last a very long time. I think you may have had a defective lantern, or maybe the bulb got damaged somehow. The only real care you need to take is:

• Don't run the battery down so much that the bulbs get really dim. That's not good for them.
• When using the lantern, always have it on for 2 mins or more at a time. That is what's best to prolong the life of the bulbs and ballasts.

If you think about it, you're only risking 12 bucks (and a trip back to return it)and a package of D cells. Check other posts here on CPF for this lantern, or post a general opinion thread in the Lanterns section.

I got kind of curious about the relative outputs of a fluorescent lantern and an LED light source. So I did a rough estimate of the output.

The 8 LED Princeteon Tech Corona scores 23 output units on flashlightreviews. So 23 * 20/8 * 1.4 = 80 lumens estimated output from my lantern with 20 LEDs. (I did this calculation before you posted your reply. I see you suggested 60 lumens. At least same ballpark.)

The fluorescent lantern is supposed to last 40 hours with a 12 watt bulb. I'm not sure what bulb exactly that is, but a 13 W fluorescent is listed in the GE lighting catalog as producing around 800 lumens. I found a claim that a D cell has 5 A hr in it. Taking this times 1.5 volts over 40 hours gives me .1875 watts for a D cell or .75 watts for four D cells. If I assume the flourescent bulb operates at the same efficiency as usual, and that it usually draws 12 W then this means I should get 800 * .75 / 12 = 50 lumens. I suspect my estimate of the power output is optimistic, so it should be worse than this.

(Note that some web page claimed this light was 12 W on the lower setting, hence my use of the 12 W number. I don't tend to know the efficiency of different lighting methods off the top of my head. I did notice that 800/12 = 68.75 lumen/watt. If I use the figures from GE for a 4 inch tube that's 265/5 = 53 lumens/watt, so it gets dimmer.)

So my rough calculation seems to indicate that the fluorescent lantern and the LED lantern are approximately the same in output. Maybe the fluorescent is a bit brighter on the high setting but maybe they're about the same.

Is there something wrong with this analysis that could explain why the flourescent would be a lot brighter? (I suppose if the fluorescent really only lasts 2 hours on its batteries that would ruin my analysis.) I certainly agree that fluorescent tubes are easier on the eyes than LEDs when you look straight at them.

BTW, I haven't seen the energizer light for less than $18. Where can it be had for only $12?

While it is true that the Lightwave 4000 is "old" technology, it is hard to beat the runtime of 48 hours to 50% of max brightness!!! If you want to stand it up.....set it in a beer mug! It does have a large lanyard loop on the end cap so you could hang it from something...ceiling fan, ceiling light, etc. It's 10 leds put out a very nice flood of light.

The runtime plot can be found here: http://ftp2.itexas.net/Rbost/lw4k.jpg

Adrian, it is safer to use actual power consumed, not manufacturer specs. That is true for all light source flashlights, as they are often underdriven. The Energizer fluoro lantern is a case in point. It houses 2 x 4W tubes. However, the power consumed isn't 8W. It's 6V x .6A = 3.6W. Fluoro efficiency is around 52 lumens/watt, give or take, which is close to what you were saying. So, 3.6W x 52lu/w = 187.2 lumens. This is on par with what my eyes are telling me is present. For comparison, I have some hotwire incan mods, and they blow away the Energizer in overall output using ceiling bounce. But then again, they are well over 500 lumens.

Using the same methodology, some lumens estimates for some other small fluoros out there (assuming 65lu/w for cold cathode):

Coleman 4AA or Energizer Trailblazer 4AA cold cathode: 120 lumens
Osram/Radio Shack 2AA compact fluoro: 90 lumens

5mm leds are between 3-5 lumens each, depending on their quality. You can multiply number times this amount to get total output estimates.

Bear in mind that the Energizer fluoro is "brighter" (not more lumens; more lux)when folded compact because it in effect becomes a 180 degree light instead of a 360. There are losses as it's reflecting off a white background (the battery case), but this is the same idea as a ceiling bounce.

I have a Lightwave 4000 as well, and have to agree, pointing it at the ceiling produces a surprising amount of reflected light, more than enough for providing illumination in an emergency. Yes, it does have the little lanyard attachment point that prevents it from standing up on its own, but the light is relatively lightweight for its size and can easily be made to stand upright by putting it between two seat cushions, pillows, in a large mug, etc. And 3 D cells are all that is required for power, and the light has an excellent run time as mentioned. I'm considering purchasing another 4000 for my home for emergency use. It really is a very nice LED flood-style light.

I think the problem with fluoros vs LEDs is LEDs typically need help to output light omnidirectionally while flouros do it naturally. A lot of the time flouros are ruined when the batteries get low and you underdrive them while LEDs just get happily dimmer till nothing comes out. Most of my 4 watt fluoros take about 300ma at 6v or about 1.8watt which comes out just like above for 3.6watt/2tubes(at 4 watts)
The major disadvantage of fluoros is cold use they struggle at low temperatures. CCFLs have a lot less problems of tube failure but are non replaceable. 4 watt straight tubes are $3 each or on sale at lowes for about $2 or less each (clearance). I picked up a few for cheaper. For the price of an LED lantern you can get a 9watt fluros which will spank most LED lanterns in output at $10. Personally I like a combination of LED and CCFL in a lantern using CCFL for bright light and LED for lower levels of light and cold. The little 1.2 watt river rock is probably nice but unless you need a tiny LED lantern you can buy a 15 watt coleman that should annihilate it in output but will set you back for the 8D cells.

I have used my fenix tail standing and it puts out a lot of light for well over 2 hours.

Hrmm... the Dorcy Super 1W 3D light from Target runs for just about a day or 3 D cells and will tailstand. Not sure how well it would illuminate a room compared to the Streamlight but I'd imagine it was in the same ballpark.

I must say that I have 4 PrincetonTec Impacts ready in case the power goes out... 150-ish hours of runtime on 4 AA cells though it has one of those freaky spot-only beams.

cratz2....when you say the PT Impact has "150-ish hours of runtime", how are you stating "runtime"? I use "runtime" to be the time it takes a light to get to 50% of max brightness.

1. 3D Mag w/Everled dropin--31 + hrs or regulated light.

or

2. As suggested already Dorcy Super 1W 3D

or

3. Lantern (the good thing about 1 and 2 is that you can use them as lanterns pointed at the ceiling, but then pick them up for flashlight use as needed).

Hey Lynx, any idea how much current that 15W Coleman draws from the 8Ds? Just guessing, but if it's in the 600ma range, that would be around twice the output of the Energizer, which stands to reason in both bulb specs and wattage.

I have 8 D Nimh cells, 4 of which do duty in my Energizer...

cratz2....when you say the PT Impact has "150-ish hours of runtime", how are you stating "runtime"? I use "runtime" to be the time it takes a light to get to 50% of max brightness.

Click to expand...

Roy, I don't know... it's just listed on the packaging as 150+ hours... I've never done a test but I have five of them loaded up... I KNOW they'll go 4 days solid of continuous use so if between the five of them, 20 days isn't long enough, then I have some pretty serious issues other than flashlight runtimes!

I am not sure, but I have a dual 15watt 12v flouro fishing light that draws about 1amp running both tubes so I figure the single 15 probably draws about 8watts which at 12v would be about... ~650ma approx. Typically wattages in flouros hold equal to output which double tube wattage *seems around double the brightness to a certain level. I have 4,6,8,15 watt tubes and seems to hold true. Personally I like flouros even though it seems if you severely underdrive all but CCFLs you risk burning the tube ends which probably reduces the life some. 4 watt tubes are pretty cheap I see them on sale for under $2 each here and there and picked up 8 of them for less than 50 cents each awhile back (could have gotten 50 at that prices but didn't have the funds to tie up).

Even if the coleman draws 1amp you could use 10 AA nimh cells and probably run it for over 2 hours which would be nice. Most of the time around here power isn't out for more than a few hours anyway.

Phaserburn said:

Hey Lynx, any idea how much current that 15W Coleman draws from the 8Ds? Just guessing, but if it's in the 600ma range, that would be around twice the output of the Energizer, which stands to reason in both bulb specs and wattage.

I have 8 D Nimh cells, 4 of which do duty in my Energizer...

Click to expand...