http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/4418748.stm
Now if we could only add this feature to a gladius or beast......
Marc
Now if we could only add this feature to a gladius or beast......
Marc
Cruise ship thwarts pirates with sound!
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Lightraven
Flashlight Enthusiast
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Hopefully, next time they'll thwart them with a .50 caliber machine gun. Earplugs or ear protectors (which I used to wear on board our boat) would greatly reduce the value of the sonic weapon.
Wow! I read a couple of news accounts of the story, but that's the first mention of sonic weapons. Other stories said the ship outran them, and went at them. I was wondering where the weapons were. Figured at least some guards armed with M16s or AKs.
Whether it worked or not, glad it was there.
Whether it worked or not, glad it was there.
Good thing for those Somalis that it wasn't a weirding module.
The cruise captian would have just shouted "Mau'Dib!" really loud, and BOOM! No more Somali pirates. Just a smoking hole in the water...
(Okay.. Okay.. I know you Frank Herbert purists are out there. There was no such thing in the book. Bad as it was, the David Lynch film left an impression, okay?)
The cruise captian would have just shouted "Mau'Dib!" really loud, and BOOM! No more Somali pirates. Just a smoking hole in the water...
(Okay.. Okay.. I know you Frank Herbert purists are out there. There was no such thing in the book. Bad as it was, the David Lynch film left an impression, okay?)
Makarov
Enlightened
This was a Norwegian owned ship with an Norwegian captain, so the story has run it's course in the Norwegian press. This is the first clarification of the device I've seen, 150 decibel, kinda noisy...
I see that the head of security was ex-Gurkha, that's some really hard fellas, my guess he did have something else up he's sleeve if the sonic thing didn't work out
I see that the head of security was ex-Gurkha, that's some really hard fellas, my guess he did have something else up he's sleeve if the sonic thing didn't work out
It's a pity. The majority of the great unwashed without even a passing knowledge of science has no idea that decibels are a measured on a logarithmic scale. All the comparisons to "jet engine this, and rock concert that" don't do the number justice.
Each decibel is ten times as powerful as the next. Hence, DECI-bel
150 db is a lot of noise.
Each decibel is ten times as powerful as the next. Hence, DECI-bel
150 db is a lot of noise.
BB
Flashlight Enthusiast
Well, technically the "deci" in decibel is really:
Measurement unit is the "Bell".
Bell = log(base 10) of power level (referenced to some level).
A decibel is db = 10 x log(base 10) of a power level
Hence the name decibel.
So, 1 watt = 0 Bell (and 0 db too) (can be referenced to 1mW or other levels too, other than the number zero which is -infinity).
10 watt = 1 Bell = 10 db
So, for every 10 increase in db, this represents 10x increase in power. From a hearing point of view, something that increases 10 db sounds, roughly twice as loud.
A 1 db change is not really even perceptible. A 3 db change is something that you can compare (listen to A, listen B) and hear the difference. A 6 db is noticeable change.
Here is an interesting detailed explanation of how this all relates and works.
-Bill
PS: Reading about the Sonic weapon used on this ship kind of made me think about how useful it would be in this situation, a large ship with a small boat or two of armed people (well, it could be a group of armed women--couldn't???).
From here (article about hearing loss from firing weapons), is a quick summary of OSHA sound standards:
So, lets set the level at 115 db for terrorist (would not want to get in trouble with OSHA).
Looking at the article, 115 db is about 100 meters range. And the ship is 63 ft wide and 440 ft overall. At best, these pirates are probably going to be 30 meters away from the emitters as they are trying to board the ship and they are firing rifles and APG's.
Either they will already have ear protection, or they probably don't really care about long term hearing loss.
If I had a $1 billion USD ship, I would probably have a couple of hunting rifles. I would think that hot lead (or seeing a 10,000 ton, 440 ft ship bearing down on you at 18+ knots) is going to bother these people more than a loud noise.
-BB
Measurement unit is the "Bell".
Bell = log(base 10) of power level (referenced to some level).
A decibel is db = 10 x log(base 10) of a power level
Hence the name decibel.
So, 1 watt = 0 Bell (and 0 db too) (can be referenced to 1mW or other levels too, other than the number zero which is -infinity).
10 watt = 1 Bell = 10 db
So, for every 10 increase in db, this represents 10x increase in power. From a hearing point of view, something that increases 10 db sounds, roughly twice as loud.
A 1 db change is not really even perceptible. A 3 db change is something that you can compare (listen to A, listen B) and hear the difference. A 6 db is noticeable change.
Here is an interesting detailed explanation of how this all relates and works.
-Bill
PS: Reading about the Sonic weapon used on this ship kind of made me think about how useful it would be in this situation, a large ship with a small boat or two of armed people (well, it could be a group of armed women--couldn't???).
From here (article about hearing loss from firing weapons), is a quick summary of OSHA sound standards:
So, lets set the level at 115 db for terrorist (would not want to get in trouble with OSHA).
Looking at the article, 115 db is about 100 meters range. And the ship is 63 ft wide and 440 ft overall. At best, these pirates are probably going to be 30 meters away from the emitters as they are trying to board the ship and they are firing rifles and APG's.
Either they will already have ear protection, or they probably don't really care about long term hearing loss.
If I had a $1 billion USD ship, I would probably have a couple of hunting rifles. I would think that hot lead (or seeing a 10,000 ton, 440 ft ship bearing down on you at 18+ knots) is going to bother these people more than a loud noise.
-BB
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Pydpiper
Flashlight Enthusiast
CNN got up close and personal with one of these noise makers, very impressive! It was so accurate that it could be aimed at individual people in a crowd, hardly concerning those that are close by.
I was sort of wondering what the pirates were thinking. I mean, a ship that size could absorb more damage than a few guys in a couple boats could inflict, and keep on going until the little boats had to turn back.
A couple of mounted .50's or 20mm's would have made short work out of the pirates. Would be quite accurate on a platform that big. Minimal investment, train some of the security to use them.
A couple of mounted .50's or 20mm's would have made short work out of the pirates. Would be quite accurate on a platform that big. Minimal investment, train some of the security to use them.
DarkLight
Enlightened
Thats it my new car horn.....
yuandrew
Flashlight Enthusiast
Anyone heard of the Hemi V8 powered Chrysler Siren ?
www.victorysiren.com
Anyway, for the manufacturer of the "sonic weapon" you can Google for "Sound Saber" or "Long Range Acoustic Device"
www.victorysiren.com
Anyway, for the manufacturer of the "sonic weapon" you can Google for "Sound Saber" or "Long Range Acoustic Device"
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KevinL
Flashlight Enthusiast
AJ_Dual said:
Read the books, watched the movie, played both the games.
Now, where can I get one that fits on a Surefire C or M-series body?
"What's that?"
"Oh, just my other flashlight."
ABTOMAT said:
.50 caliber.. and SF Hellfire target illuminator, that way they can REALLY see the light..
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Makarov
Enlightened
Not all incidents with pirates is reported, mostly because they happen in international waters and is resolved satisfactory for the attacked ship.
This attack looks like it could have been twarted easily anyway, these guys weren't too professional. The big problem today is the guys who take over the whole ship, rename it and kill the crew. Then the ship gets a new legit life under a new flag, and the cargo is sold to the original buyer as he needs a substitute for the cargo that was "lost".
This attack looks like it could have been twarted easily anyway, these guys weren't too professional. The big problem today is the guys who take over the whole ship, rename it and kill the crew. Then the ship gets a new legit life under a new flag, and the cargo is sold to the original buyer as he needs a substitute for the cargo that was "lost".
You do kind of wonder what they were thinking. That a couple of AK's and a RPG were going to make them stop and open one huge hydraulic cargo doors near the waterline to let them in?
It's rare for a pro-gunner like myself to say someone dosen't need a gun, but I have to admit they don't really need deck guns on a cruise ship. These jokers were attacking what amounted to a multi-story metal wall. Sound the alarm, get all the passengers into the center of the ship, and give them a couple of casino chips and a free drink. (Although, if I did have a cruise ship with guns, in my perverse world-view, I'd be sorely tempted to charge a premium, and let those passengers man the guns! Think of it as a step up from trap shooting and driving golf balls, ha ha….)
Somalis: "We demand you! Let us be in! Throw us rope!"
Cruise liner" "Umm… How about, no? Is that okay? Bye!"
The only external threats that can stop a cruise liner that doesn't want to be stopped are actual blue-water naval vessels. Maybe a helicopter assault with armed men dropping to the deck, but I imagine a competent captain could make use of the throttle and the side-thrusters to the point such an assault would be "interesting", to say the least, for the aggressors.
Remember, this is in the context of "piracy", not terrorism, per se. If you're rich enough for a helicopter, what are you going to steal on a cruise ship? A bunch of travelers cheques and some Rolexes? Casino chips? Where would you cash them? You might not break even on the avgas and the maintenance for the chopper!
It's rare for a pro-gunner like myself to say someone dosen't need a gun, but I have to admit they don't really need deck guns on a cruise ship. These jokers were attacking what amounted to a multi-story metal wall. Sound the alarm, get all the passengers into the center of the ship, and give them a couple of casino chips and a free drink. (Although, if I did have a cruise ship with guns, in my perverse world-view, I'd be sorely tempted to charge a premium, and let those passengers man the guns! Think of it as a step up from trap shooting and driving golf balls, ha ha….)
Somalis: "We demand you! Let us be in! Throw us rope!"
Cruise liner" "Umm… How about, no? Is that okay? Bye!"
The only external threats that can stop a cruise liner that doesn't want to be stopped are actual blue-water naval vessels. Maybe a helicopter assault with armed men dropping to the deck, but I imagine a competent captain could make use of the throttle and the side-thrusters to the point such an assault would be "interesting", to say the least, for the aggressors.
Remember, this is in the context of "piracy", not terrorism, per se. If you're rich enough for a helicopter, what are you going to steal on a cruise ship? A bunch of travelers cheques and some Rolexes? Casino chips? Where would you cash them? You might not break even on the avgas and the maintenance for the chopper!
Actually , a lot of the "piracy" in the pacific isn't even lethal for the crew, they're in on it. The boarding "pirate crew" is actually contracted by the ships owner's who "steal" it, drop the crew off at a safe port, then take the ship to a port with lax registry standards and repaint the name as you say. The owners collect on the insurance, and then buy the same ship back from the pirates at a discount, so both can take a cut of the insurance money. If it's one of the nicer companies, the crew gets a "danger bonus" on their paychecks to keep quiet. I'm sure there is a significant amount of "board, kill, steal" piracy, but the professional piracy in SE Asia and the straits of Malacca is just a huge insurance fraud ring.
yuandrew said:
Chicago has five of them. One by my (childhood) home. Incredibly loud. The late Mayor Daley had the air raid sirens activated when the White Sox won the pennant in 1959 it scared the livin' ---- out of people. So when the White Sox won the pennant this year they were not used.
According to a cruise ship security expert the attack on the cruise liner could have been terrorist related because they shot at the passenger compartments as opposed to trying to disable the ships controls.
http://www.usatoday.com/travel/news/2005-11-08-cruises-pirates_x.htm
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cslinger
Enlightened
Great news for the ship but unfortunitely a bunch of low life murdering jagoffs get to ply their trade on some other, most likely smaller, ship next time.
That being said count me in the .50 caliber camp. I am not talking about deck mounted weapons just some .50 rifles along with some other small arms accessible to the security team. At the very least you could have sunk their little boats.
Now my cruise ship, the "Gunny's Paradise" would be armed to the teeth and like was suggested before a small fee would be charged to play with the deck guns sink a pirate get a free drink or something to that effect.
That being said count me in the .50 caliber camp. I am not talking about deck mounted weapons just some .50 rifles along with some other small arms accessible to the security team. At the very least you could have sunk their little boats.
Now my cruise ship, the "Gunny's Paradise" would be armed to the teeth and like was suggested before a small fee would be charged to play with the deck guns sink a pirate get a free drink or something to that effect.
JonSidneyB
Flashlight Enthusiast
May be I misunderstand something.
Though the ship is very large, I thought there were not capable of holding there own unarmed against even a small ship.
The large cruise ships I thought weighed less than warships that were several times smaller in volume.
Submarines with a breech loading 3 inch gun in WorldWar2 was able to sink large unarmed merchant vessels.
While a three inch gun is large....its not so large that there are not close substitutes for it. And by naval standards it is very small. A 3 inch gun I am pretty sure is less potent than what is on a modern tank. That puts it in the RPGs league I would guess.
I think a band of pirates could subdue a cruise ship or merchant ship if it was unarmed. Assuming the pirates knew what they were doing.
Though the ship is very large, I thought there were not capable of holding there own unarmed against even a small ship.
The large cruise ships I thought weighed less than warships that were several times smaller in volume.
Submarines with a breech loading 3 inch gun in WorldWar2 was able to sink large unarmed merchant vessels.
While a three inch gun is large....its not so large that there are not close substitutes for it. And by naval standards it is very small. A 3 inch gun I am pretty sure is less potent than what is on a modern tank. That puts it in the RPGs league I would guess.
I think a band of pirates could subdue a cruise ship or merchant ship if it was unarmed. Assuming the pirates knew what they were doing.
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mattheww50
Flashlight Enthusiast
JonSidneyB said:
You'd be amazed a just how big a platform you actually need for a gun at sea. My late father commaned a Sub Chaser (110 foot) during WWII (SC690). He wanted a gun, and since he got to oversee the construction, the contractor told him if he could find the gun,they'd mount it. He knew where to get naval guns, and had 5 inch on the foredeck. It was fired exactly once before it had to be removed. The single firing cracked many of the structural beams that held the bow together.
Boats are a lot less stable platforms than Humvee's, so while firing a .50 machine gun will shake up a Humvee, it is quite capable of swamping a boat of comparable size. So an RPG or shoulder fired anti-tank missile (and the anti-tank missile will do far more damage) are about the upper limit on what can be easily placed on board, and fired safely.
Also taking a cruise ships is a lousy business practice, expecially a fair sized one with a well known name. I.E. you pirate a 300 foot tramp steamer, and very few will notice, and perhaps only 20 crew to dispose of. They are a dime a dozen. Pirate a 300 passenger cruise ship from a well known cruise line, and everybody and his brother will be looking for it. Cannot simply be reflagged and repainted, because compared to tramp streamers, cruise ships are rare beasts.Then there is the problem of what to do with 500 or so aboard. Kill or hold that many people for ransom, and you get noticed (and taken out). AGain, take a 300 foot tramp steamer with a crew of 20 (mostly 3rd world) and surprising few will notice or care. It has been going on in the Straights of Malacca for decades.
Bad choice of target, and bad location. 100 miles off shore is not a good place to try this, especially if the other guy can simply call for 30kt and runway (something a tramp steamer cannot do).
All this talk about what the Somali pirates could have possibly hoped to accomplished got me wondering about an explanation…
Then something I learned about that part of the world from "Blackhawk Down" occurred to me, Khat.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khat
These guys were most likely not running on all cylinders...
Then something I learned about that part of the world from "Blackhawk Down" occurred to me, Khat.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khat
These guys were most likely not running on all cylinders...
JonSidneyB
Flashlight Enthusiast
Agreed,
A target like that would draw alot of attention, just like the Ahilie Laural(spelling).
On gun size however, There is a huge difference between a 5 inch gun and a 3 inch gun. They can hardly be compared.
Bore: 3"/50 calibre
Barrel Weight: 1,240 pounds
Wt. of projectile: Approximately 13 pounds
Bore: 5"/38 Caliber
Barrel Weight: 3,990 pounds
Wt. of projectile: Approcimately 54 pounds
The 3 inch gun was not considered a good weapon against much that could shoot back but was effective against merchant ships that did not have the ability to defend itself.
The 5 inch gun though it could not sink the largest of warships did to significant damage to upper works in actual practice. A destroyer escort with only a 5 inch gun disabled a main turret of a Japanese Heavy Cruiser in WW2.
A merchant ship with almost anything to fight back with could defend itself against a small ship with a 3 inch gun. An unarmed ship would just get shot repeatedly until over a period of time until significant damage was done.
In WW2 even some yatchs were equipped with 3 inchers thought they could never carry a 5 inch gun.
I think terrorists with several RPGs could be a real threat to an unarmed cruise ship. Fortunately the RPGs do not have the best range. If a cruise ship had a 20mm or maybe even a .50 Cal. It should be able to defend itself against a terrorist boat with RPGs.
A target like that would draw alot of attention, just like the Ahilie Laural(spelling).
On gun size however, There is a huge difference between a 5 inch gun and a 3 inch gun. They can hardly be compared.
Bore: 3"/50 calibre
Barrel Weight: 1,240 pounds
Wt. of projectile: Approximately 13 pounds
Bore: 5"/38 Caliber
Barrel Weight: 3,990 pounds
Wt. of projectile: Approcimately 54 pounds
The 3 inch gun was not considered a good weapon against much that could shoot back but was effective against merchant ships that did not have the ability to defend itself.
The 5 inch gun though it could not sink the largest of warships did to significant damage to upper works in actual practice. A destroyer escort with only a 5 inch gun disabled a main turret of a Japanese Heavy Cruiser in WW2.
A merchant ship with almost anything to fight back with could defend itself against a small ship with a 3 inch gun. An unarmed ship would just get shot repeatedly until over a period of time until significant damage was done.
In WW2 even some yatchs were equipped with 3 inchers thought they could never carry a 5 inch gun.
I think terrorists with several RPGs could be a real threat to an unarmed cruise ship. Fortunately the RPGs do not have the best range. If a cruise ship had a 20mm or maybe even a .50 Cal. It should be able to defend itself against a terrorist boat with RPGs.
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